What has happened to you, ATS?

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

What I also don't get is why the front page is constantly filled with religious threads, mostly Christian. We get it, you love your bible and believe it's your duty to spread the word and convert but...

Wait...there's one at my door now.

Peace

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: EternalSolace

Ok, that's fine and all that, but part of having the discussion as it were it to point out that, yes, indeed, some things are sins or sinful. Some people choose to interpret that as a Christian saying, "You're going to hell!" That doesn't help. Jesus did minister to the sinners in society, not the morally upright, but he didn't do so by saying, "Hey, buddy, whatever you do is fine by me. We're all gonna party hearty in heaven anyhow." He taught them what they were doing was wrong and why even though he loved them. Even the woman at the temple whom he saved from being stoned he admonished to "go and sin no more."

Simply put, you cannot have a real discussion of Christianity and the Bible without this part of the faith.

I get that Christians feel compelled to not only evangelize due to the "great commission" but also not do certain behaviors prohibited as sin in the Bible. However, it's just a random ancient book to non-believers. Although not all Christians do this, many are very vocal and even activists about proscribing "sin" at the level of law, such as prohibiting gay marriage or certain sex acts. Many of the Dominionist Christians are always trying to dictate everyone else's personal behavior. On the flip side, to this day we have a lot of holidays and things like that which "privilege" Christianity over other religions or non-beliefs.

Hence, a lot of the attacks are nought but the gradual deconstruction of this privilege.

originally posted by: Kali74
I think it's because Christianity has a tyrannical hold on the West. Christian morals dominate our laws. "Christian" politicians dominate our government bodies. Those that hold power will be attacked, most especially if they wield that power as a weapon against those different from themselves.

In the USA it isn't supposed to be that way, we are supposed to be Americans first... UNITED, despite our being different from one another. As a non Christian, the options in my life shouldn't be limited by the moral teachings of a religion, but they are as are millions of others, well rather billions because people dominated by their Christian faith wield enough power to reach beyond their own borders.

That said, it's no justification for just outright attacking Christians or Christianity or the religiously inclined in general. But I suspect that isn't really the case anyway, outside of militant atheists. I suspect most people are attacking situations caused by a person/persons of Christian faith. Teaching creationism in public schools for example. Or just calling out the blatant hypocrisy of Christian leaders.

Precisely to all of what you stated.

What's the purpose of pointing out the flaws in the official story of 9/11? People actually believe the official story, does that mean those who don't shouldn't be allowed to point out those flaws? And does it mean that if they do that they are personally "bashing" those who believe the official story?

Religion is a conspiracy, this is a conspiracy forum. Stop whining about people pointing out the conspiracy.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos




Thank You...

Des

a reply to: ketsuko

I'm not saying to leave eternal damnation out from the discussion. What I'm saying is that the continual incessant droning of how someone is going to hell drives people away. I'm about go a bit in depth, and might seem off my rocker to atheist or others who think Christianity is nonesense, but that's okay.

Christians are supposed to lead people to Christ through the Bible and by the examples they live (Mathew 7:16). Once they begin reading the Bible, it's the job of the Holy Spirit to convict their hearts of the actions they've taken. If they're receptive, it should lead to repentance and acceptance of God's grace. It's fine if you're asked questions as a Christian. But it's not the job of a Christian to convict someone's heart by droning on, and on, about how someone else is going to hell.

No, Jesus didn't say whatever people did was fine. And yes, Jesus routinely called people out for sin. But I don't see where Jesus badgered anyone into the faith.

A Christians job is to share their faith, not force it on people.

a reply to: thesmokingman
Their own god also states...
Mark 16

“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: ketsuko

I'm not saying to leave eternal damnation out from the discussion. What I'm saying is that the continual incessant droning of how someone is going to hell drives people away. I'm about go a bit in depth, and might seem off my rocker to atheist or others who think Christianity is nonesense, but that's okay.

Christians are supposed to lead people to Christ through the Bible and by the examples they live (Mathew 7:16). Once they begin reading the Bible, it's the job of the Holy Spirit to convict their hearts of the actions they've taken. If they're receptive, it should lead to repentance and acceptance of God's grace. It's fine if you're asked questions as a Christian. But it's not the job of a Christian to convict someone's heart by droning on, and on, about how someone else is going to hell.

No, Jesus didn't say whatever people did was fine. And yes, Jesus routinely called people out for sin. But I don't see where Jesus badgered anyone into the faith.

A Christians job is to share their faith, not force it on people.

Truly, I think one of the main reasons people are disillusioned with Christianity is that on average, Christians are not setting a better example by their behavior. Jesus said to judge a path by it's fruits.

I think there is zero correlation between being a Christian and acting better, more ethical, etc. It seems that there is some other external factor not related to religion that makes either an atheist or a Christian act badly or well. That might be introspection, philosophy, upbringing, life experience, or all of those.

Also, there almost seems to be a negative correlation between religious fundamentalism and self-awareness, knowledge, deeper philosophy, etc. That obviously doesn't mean a perfect correlation, as there are non aware people of all backgrounds.

It is born out though via real studies that there is a negative correlation between religiousity and education levels.

The problem this raises though is that it shows to me that the bible, Christianity, and the "holy spirit' aren't achieving what they are supposed to: transformation, being more "christ-like," etc.

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

I for one don't stoop to the level that you are accusing 90% of the ATS community of stooping to.

It seems that that 90% seem to think that "intelligent discussions" and "religions" can actually go hand in hand. That couldn't be further from the truth. Oil and water. Hence your rant.

People on the religious side can have what they determine as intelligent conversations about it amongst themselves, and people on the side can do the same. But people on both sides of this fence cannot sit down with each other and do the same.

It's funny how something that is supposed to make people more loving...........is so divisive.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”

Brennan Manning


That's my reply to that.

It's also the reason I struggle with my faith and the more I watch, the harder time I have in regaining it. I've not called myself a Christian in a long time. But at the same time, I still respect those who've held firm in their faith. I also agree with the OP. The bashing has been in overdrive as of late.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

So, you no longer want to have spring or winter breaks?

a reply to: ProfessorChaos

it would appear that baseless bashing, of any kind, has become quite the norm around here), has caused me to limit my interactions on ATS.

Thats what its supposed to do, drive out user content and discredit the site.

Hang in there ProfessorChaos…

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: ketsuko

I'm not saying to leave eternal damnation out from the discussion. What I'm saying is that the continual incessant droning of how someone is going to hell drives people away. I'm about go a bit in depth, and might seem off my rocker to atheist or others who think Christianity is nonesense, but that's okay.

Christians are supposed to lead people to Christ through the Bible and by the examples they live (Mathew 7:16). Once they begin reading the Bible, it's the job of the Holy Spirit to convict their hearts of the actions they've taken. If they're receptive, it should lead to repentance and acceptance of God's grace. It's fine if you're asked questions as a Christian. But it's not the job of a Christian to convict someone's heart by droning on, and on, about how someone else is going to hell.

No, Jesus didn't say whatever people did was fine. And yes, Jesus routinely called people out for sin. But I don't see where Jesus badgered anyone into the faith.

A Christians job is to share their faith, not force it on people.

All right, then most of the threads I see here are threads about something that isn't an attempt to evangelize Christianity. There are threads that attack it, there are threads that attempt to relate it to other faith traditions either as a copycat or as a conspiracy, there are even threads about whether or not we are in the End Times (which are not evangelizing in the main) ... And yes I have seen threads about some people's interpretations of scripture which are also not about evangelizing.

But the simple fact of the matter is that most of us are Christian or atheist who are making threads in the religions forums ... What would you expect the results to be? If we attracted a following of Buddhists to this forum, I would expect there to be a series of Buddhist threads. PJ Media has a resident Buddhist columnist who writes a series comparing Buddhism and Christianity for example and often not favorably for Christianity. I get better Buddhism info there than here because I have the work of an active Buddhist to read.

Where are the Jewish threads? I submit to you the rabidly anti-Semitic pose of the boards might be a bit off-putting to most Jews who might otherwise consider posting here.

And there are a few Muslim posters ... of whom Charlie is the most notable, but he seldom delves into the deep spiritual side of his faith. Only the apologetics which is what many of us Christian posters are often engaged in and why you characterize us as "whiners."

And I didn't even mention the Hindus, but you could say much the same about them as you do about the Buddhists.

What you have OP, is a growing segment of society rebelling against an overtly oppressive religion that has ruled the roost in the West for hundreds of years. What does that segment get out of their bashing? A small taste of freedom. Freedom to be anything other than what that oppressor wants them to be.

On the other hand, you have the oppressor doing everything possible to maintain their perceived superiority and grip on the near unchallenged rule and privelege they've become accustomed to in past centuries. What do they get out of their participation? Maintained perception of the masses that they have the moral and ethical high ground, as well as the only way to "god". Believe or be condemned!

What would be the point in making threads about Hinduism and Buddhism when most ATS religious folks are Christian?a reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

So, you no longer want to have spring or winter breaks?

DIdn't say that. But holidays need to be (and are being) unhinged from religious roots. And, again, we have Christians that want to retain the privileged place that Christianity held in our laws, holidays, schooling, etc. It is this that is being deconstructed. Non-believers want their government, schools, and laws free from religious prescriptions. People of other religions don't want to be subjected to Christianity.

This is what Christians misperceive as "persecution" of Christians in the West, when in reality it is others simply wanting freedom from Christianity and real equality for other beliefs.

So, I was just having lunch with my family, and while eating, I was thinking about some of the responses on this very young thread.

It's occurred to me, that though my post was not a post specifically about Christianity, nor one calling for other viewpoints to be silenced (as has been implied by some), that this battle is one that will not be won on ATS. Just the use of the word 'Christianity' in an example (based on my most recently read thread), has already caused what could have been a simple discussion, to devolve into the very same tit-for-tat that I posited was harming the community of ATS.

Some members shut down intellectually the very moment their eyes fell upon that word, and accused me of whining, and essentially wanting to ban any worldview that didn't support mine. That's really discouraging. Not only is it discouraging, it's sad.

In order to avoid the same kind of vitriol that I was speaking against in my OP, I will be removing the proverbial gloves, not to go 'bare knuckle', but to place my hands in my pockets.

Have at it, guys. Get it out of your system, so that we can all move on, and actually edify each other. After all, that was the point of this thread to begin with.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

“The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians: who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, walk out the door, and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.”

Brennan Manning


That's my reply to that.

It's also the reason I struggle with my faith and the more I watch, the harder time I have in regaining it. I've not called myself a Christian in a long time. But at the same time, I still respect those who've held firm in their faith. I also agree with the OP. The bashing has been in overdrive as of late.

Meanwhile, fundamentalist Christians always claim that the only way to transcend sin (bad behavior) is to accept Jesus and through the power of the holy spirit. THey will claim that nothing else will work to make one good. That meditation, yoga, philosophy, will not produce the desired effect.

So, evidence shows that this primary claim has quite simply not been supported.

a reply to: ketsuko

That I can't argue with. There does appear to be a sheer hate for Christianity and Christians that even I can't say isn't prevalent. But that too was accounted for in the Bible with Mark 13:13. But it can't be denied that a lot of the contempt for Christians is because of the judging.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
What would be the point in making threads about Hinduism and Buddhism when most ATS religious folks are Christian?a reply to: ketsuko

Believe it or not. I enjoy learning about different things ... when it's actually learning. In many ways, Buddhism at its core is, I think, closest to the aims of what Christianity should be.