It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

POLITICS: 44% Say Limit Liberties of Muslim Americans

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 09:22 PM
link   
In a poll released from Cornell University, examining American's views on civil liberties, Islam, and Muslim Americans; 44% of respondents felt there should be at least one form of restrictions on Muslim Americans. Additionally in the poll, 47% of respondents feel the government should have more power to monitor internet activities.
 



In U.S., 44 Percent Say Restrict Muslims
Nearly half of all Americans believe the U.S. government should restrict the civil liberties of Muslim Americans, according to a nationwide poll.

The survey conducted by Cornell University also found that Republicans and people who described themselves as highly religious were more apt to support curtailing Muslims' civil liberties than Democrats or people who are less religious.

...

The survey found 44 percent favored at least some restrictions on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans. Forty-eight percent said liberties should not be restricted in any way.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Additionally, in the full report, Restrictions on Civil Liberties, Views of Islam, & Muslim Americans, it details how repondents were categorized into several different groups. Below I have listed some interesting percentages:
_________________________________________________

The percentages of people whom agree that "Individuals allowed to protest" and "Individuals allowed to criticized" remained about even at 60%.

-This is scary by itself, whereas 40% feel that people should not be allowed to protest, or criticize the government.
_________________________________________________

Split into three groups, which the respondents identified themselves as; Republican, Democrat or Independent.

The government should have more power to monitor internet activities:
64% Republicans
34% Independents
40% Democrats

-What is unique about this one is, those that identified themselves as Independents disagreed with this premise the most. In most other statements, Democrats were the ones to disagree the most.

All Muslim Americans being required to register their whereabouts:
40% Republicans
17% Independents
24% Democrats

- Again a question where Independents seem to refuse the authoritarian idea even when embraced by 2 out of 5 Republicans, and 1 out of 4 Democrats.
_________________________________________________

I believe this poll is a very good eye opener, it details how people of a certain religiousity, party affiliation, and even TV viewing type chose to answer. Look at the full report yourself, and share what you feel needs to be discussed.
Restrictions on Civil Liberties, Views of Islam, & Muslim Americans (The Report)


[edit on 12-18-2004 by Zion Mainframe]




posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 12:21 PM
link   
Could get wrapped up with the fact that the percentages don't add up or perhaps that America is becoming something or another but these are not the point.

As pointed out by one of the Muslims in the cited articles, America is at war against a Muslim people.

A great deal of plain old mistrust exists. No amount of hand wringing or finger pointing will erase this. One (naturally) distrusts people that are trying to harm you. America is under attack by an enemy that holds up a belief (religion) as a sword. Those that hold the same sword must be looked at with growing suspicion.

Until the time that internationally respected Muslims denounce Osama and his kind mistrust will not dissipate. Muslims have to realize they are being painted by the same tar brush and that Osama and his kind are the painters. Through fear or because of some other reason the lack of denouncement is inexcuseable to Americans. I am truly surprised Americans have been able to keep anti-Muslim sentiment as low as it is. Where are the beatings?

Imagine being in the American Army in Afghanistan or Iraq. One of your squad-mates is named Abdual and he is a little darker than you (presume you are white) and he prays differently. Are you going to be as trusting when Abdul is on guard duty at night as you would be if Joe or Sam were?

Philosophical platitudes aside, reality is reality. Distrust of people that have a tie to an enemy is natural.

American Muslims need to do a little soul searching if they haven't already. Germans, Italians, Japanese and a host of other people that fit into American society suffered through high levels of resentment and in some cases internment because of their differences. This is natural whether it is justified or not.

Many Americans will berate themselves or their fellows for being hate-mongers or something of that sort and I believe this is wrong. Americans need to have security and Muslims, whether American or not, must realize this even and maybe especially when they do not agree with America's military adventures. Rightly or wrongly their was no cause for war against Muslim peoples until 9-11. That horrendous act has been lain squarely at the feet of people that brandish the sword of Islam (Muslims). Muslims are responsible and have to acknowledge this as a fact. Until Islam (Muslimism at large) stands against atrocities such as this the tar-brush will be slathered.

I am not aware of any American Muslim leader ranting against Osama- Malcom X would have! Eldridge Cleaver would have!

Where are the Arabic/Middle Eastern Muslim American leaders?

Sometimes the price of silence is heavy.

Silence is not always a virtue.



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 12:28 PM
link   
What can one say about this?

"Propaganda is working"

Sounds about right doesn't it?



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 12:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by JoeDoaks
Could get wrapped up with the fact that the percentages don't add up or perhaps that America is becoming something or another but these are not the point.

As pointed out by one of the Muslims in the cited articles, America is at war against a Muslim people.

A great deal of plain old mistrust exists. No amount of hand wringing or finger pointing will erase this. One (naturally) distrusts people that are trying to harm you. America is under attack by an enemy that holds up a belief (religion) as a sword. Those that hold the same sword must be looked at with growing suspicion.


I know a great deal of muslims who love this country's freedom more than a sizable amount of Americans. I would trust them far over a person who feels they should report their whereabouts to the government, or limit freedoms in one form or another.

A man who wants to restrict freedoms of another man, is a man who wants more power for himself.



Until the time that internationally respected Muslims denounce Osama and his kind mistrust will not dissipate. Muslims have to realize they are being painted by the same tar brush and that Osama and his kind are the painters. Through fear or because of some other reason the lack of denouncement is inexcuseable to Americans. I am truly surprised Americans have been able to keep anti-Muslim sentiment as low as it is.


Is there a demand of apology from white people when the KKK lynches up a black man? To paint such a broad brush is of poor taste and oversimplication, even if easy to do.



Where are the beatings?


I certainly hope you are not calling for the beatings of muslims.



Imagine being in the American Army in Afghanistan or Iraq. One of your squad-mates is named Abdual and he is a little darker than you (presume you are white) and he prays differently. Are you going to be as trusting when Abdul is on guard duty at night as you would be if Joe or Sam were?


If you didn't know the person, prejudices may be there, but often when you get to know the person and realize that he is more like you than different; prejudices are overidden.



That horrendous act has been lain squarely at the feet of people that brandish the sword of Islam (Muslims). Muslims are responsible and have to acknowledge this as a fact. Until Islam (Muslimism at large) stands against atrocities such as this the tar-brush will be slathered.


To say that all Muslims are responsible for 9/11 is simply one of the stupidest things I've heard in awhile. To demand that people who hate Bin Laden as much as you, apologize for his actions, is like asking all white people to apologize for enslaving blacks.


[edit on 12-18-2004 by BeingWatchedByThem]



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 12:57 PM
link   
Well, the survey only comprised of 715 peoples opinions unless I read wrongly. So I personally don't put much faith in the results as being representative of America. I wonder how many Muslims took part in the survey?



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 01:05 PM
link   
I was reading over the Cornell pdf file and found a few things that make me wonder how valid this poll is.

First, the sampling was made up of only 715 households - how can you get a valid sampling from 700 households especially when Cornell notes that they only obtained a 1 in 4 response rate. I guess you probably could but it seems to diminish the impact.

The second question I have is with respect to how were the questions worded and were respondents aware that their choice may limit civil liberties. Cornell's link does not provide the context of each question nor whether they explained the consequences of some choices. For instance in Table 2 it notes "should the US be able to detain terrorists indefinitely." This was noted with 63% agreement. Did the question distinguish between terrorists similar to Richard Reid and Jose Padilla or say Muslim American citizens?

Table 7 (restricting civil liberties on Muslim Americans) is also interesting in that almost 50% of respondents specifically stated that they did not agree with any of the choices given. For those with a choice - the % did not exceed 30%.

Like I said I am just curious how this survey was presented. I know there are some close minded people in this country who don't mind giving up their civil liberties, but I believe them to be a very small minority.

Can we take anything that is presented in the media or education at face value anymore?

B



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 01:07 PM
link   
Seems once again the government polled a bunch of right winged nut cases and came up with this.
It means nothing. Just shows the ignorance of those who took part in this.



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 02:36 PM
link   
Being, you posted the article- not I.

Don't throw lines in water unless you can deal with your catch.

The 'jest' of YOUR presentation was that what? Non-Muslim Americans should feel guilt-ridden because they have fears based religion or some pseudo-creed?

Calling for beatings? Do you see that I have done so?

    Why is that you feel the need to bring another group (KKK) into the subject matter you chose to begin with? Is this supposed to be some type of insult? If so, I am not insulted. However, seeing that you brought the KKK into this thread (your thread) let's see what i was referring to, shall we?

    The American state of Alabama just refused to change the sentence of a dead KKK killer. I applaud them for that. I would applaud any court that refuses to bow to political pressure or some sort of after-the-fact salve making. This is important stuff. One of the states branded the most racist has refused to make even a jester at appeasement. No one would have faulted the court in the long run. A few minority people would have been insulted in the short run. The court, however, took the high road and refused.

Look up Malcom X and Eldridge Clever. They also are important Americans to the jest of your article. Both men fought the American government for years. One was virulently anti-government. Yet, neither would have sat silent as the world Muslim community has done. Mr. Clever hated the American government so much he exiled himself. Years later upon his return to certain prison he bent down and kissed the pavement at the airport when he deplaned. He hated the government but loved the country.

These Muslims you refer to may be the same. They may not even hate the government, that I don't know. Have they or any of their publicly known leaders spoken out AGAINST Osama and his crew? If not then why not?

I am not calling for division or hate. Far be it from my intentions. If you took my post as such then either I miscommunicated or you misunderstood. For the sake of civility I apologizers for any misunderstanding as I was the one that authored the post. Other than this, I apologize not.

My message may not be clear but it is based on historical fact. If people do nothing to assuage fears then those fears grow and the people that do nothing are the cause of that growth which may strangle them in its fruition.

Silence is not always the best policy.

dg, you may be right. Sad thing is in America- polls tend to be read and re-read.

Bleys, the report and numbers may not even matter in a few days. As you refer- 'the spin' will be what matters.



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 02:59 PM
link   
Why the focus on Muslims? A Muslim is one who follows Islam to some degree.

This survey's use of the term "Muslim" greatly impairs its validity. It's my observation that Americans are confused about what a Muslim is, thinking the word describes a member of a race or a national or ethnic group. For many, because of relentless media and political characterizations, the word invokes an image of olive-skinned arabic insurgents, unlawful combatants, and suicide bombers. The survey then elicits responses based on these muddled beliefs and purports to draw conclusions regarding the responding sample's views on important issues.

As an old college computing professor repeatedly reminded his students to keep foremost in their minds: GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT. And, of all places, this survey emanates from Cornell University.

On the other hand, what a great opportunity to expand the federal bureaucracy! We could establish the National Bureau of Muslim Identification to protect the Mother Land, oops, I mean the Homeland

How do you identify a person as Muslim? Skin color? Hair color and texture? Facial characteristics? Their speech accent? Well, that won't work. That just identifies people based on race, nationality, or ethnicity. We're targetting a religious group here! But then, maybe some collateral damage is acceptable in view of the greater good that we're pursuing.

Many Middle Eastern people are not Muslims. Many are Christians. Which form of Islam are we targeting? Sunni? Shia? Wahabbi? Maybe we could tell more by following them around to see what time and how often in a day they pray and even listen to the content of their prayers for good measure. Better yet, let's watch and see whether they eat during daylight in the month of Ramadan!! That'll do it!

Maybe a better approach would be to set up spy cameras at all Mosques in America and scan the faces of those who enter any Mosque into a national face recognition database and associate the scanned faces with names, addresses, occupation, employment, personal habits (heterosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual, auto-erotics), and add notes of interviews of their neighbors, friends, relatives, teachers, students, . . . and use postal workers, meter readers, repairmen, and others as spies to report back anything bearing on their religious predilections. Don't forget the $billions$ needed for our new army of brain-dead government bureaucrats to make this a viable branch of our intelligence system.

HERBERT HOOVER, JOE McCARTHY, WHERE ARE YOU WHEN YOU'RE NEEDED MOST???!!!



[edit on 18-12-2004 by dubiousone]

[edit on 18-12-2004 by dubiousone]

I edited this post to remove the word "stupid" from my characterization of the survey. The survey deals with how the responders feel about Muslim Americans. It's an 8 page PDF and worth reading. Your brain might ache a bit but it's worth the effort.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by dubiousone]



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 03:13 PM
link   
dubiousone, You're on the right track except you gotta replace the word Muslim(or Shia, Sunni and Wahhabi) with "Any follower of an Orginized Religion" because they are the ones most prone to terrorism. Has everyone forgotten all the Abortion Doctor murders? That type of Terror, is usually perpetrated by Whites who identify mostly with the Christian faith. How bout Oklahoma? Or Atlanta or the Boston tea party(oh gotta persecute Political types too they are prone to terrorism as well)

This survey is bunk BTW. As dubiousone said "Garbage in, Garbage out"

[edit on 18-12-2004 by sardion2000]



posted on Dec, 18 2004 @ 03:49 PM
link   
When surveys like this reach the general media is enhance to appear that is the majority of Americans that have those views.

That is misleading, to me is like a group on a specific agenda trying to get others to agree with them.

I see it for what it is racial and religious persecutions.

I will like to see what a poll of muslin Americans will look like if they do it against Christian Americans.

Funny they are all Americans after all.

Our nations divisions are going to take a turn into a dangerous level the way things are right now in our country.



posted on Dec, 20 2004 @ 02:20 PM
link   
In short, 44% of Americans are utter morons.

I am a fundamentalist Christian. I'm a Constitutionalist. Restricting one's civil liberties just because they worship some other god/believe differently is just wrong--and un-American.

So much for the First Amendment.



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join