The obvious is confirmed. The Republican party is a fraud.

a reply to: Boadicea

No, not forgotten, perhaps all the more reason for a poll-leading gambit where he-or some other potential person- avows continuing his run as an independent/third party candidate.

The Ross Perot result merely re-enforces that potentiality amongst the Republican Establishment and 'could' force a reality adjustment...

A side note. I fully expected a negative reaction from Republican Establishment supporting posters. I find it encouraging, frankly, as they see what a monkey wrench to their plans this could be.

Jeb Bush vs Hillary Clinton...I cannot recall any Presidential election choice that offered two candidates as unpopular as these. Never has an election been set up so perfectly for someone to tip the 'House of Cards' and change the game completely as this one is.....

a reply to: nwtrucker

Mr. Ron Paul...........This is even more proof.

a reply to: BlueMule

Never has the liberal view been so well articulated. Congratulations!! The hypocrisy and contradictions in your post is exactly why your losing your power..

So, please do continue.

a reply to: Indigo5

Now could you clarify for us, Buffet, Gates, Soros...to name just a few on the other side who manipulate, finance state Electoral college referenda, ad nauseam....

a reply to: Indigo5

Now could you clarify for us, Buffet, Gates, Soros...to name just a few on the other side who manipulate, finance state Electoral college referenda, ad nauseam....

the entire system is a fraud yet people still look to political leaders to pullout of this mess. The only solution in the end is going to either be some sort of self sacrificing spiritual leader or people opting out,homeschooling their children, and going to a system of doing things that excludes fake money IE barter etc. etc.

we could all just lock and load and start shooting each other too but I wouldn't recommend it since the 99% will only be killing other member of the 99% club. The 1% will just disappear until everyone is dead and come back to start another series of frauds and illusions.

Romney was going to win in 2012 with a landslide ... at least according to the right-stream media echo chamber.

Last mid-term election: lowest turnout since WWII.

Polls consistently show Democrats ahead in terms of stated party affiliation: Gallup Party Affiliation

Democrats retain a wide ratio of support among Hispanics. Latino Support for Democrats

As far as State Legislatures and the US House of Representatives goes? Gerrymandering.

Democratic vote share is significantly larger ... even though they lost seats:

[W]e can just add up the total number of votes cast for all Democratic candidates and Republican candidates in the 2010, 2012 and 2014 elections, using Dave Leip's election atlas as a source. It works out to 103 million votes for Democrats to 98 million votes for Republicans: a difference of 5 million votes, or 2.5 points

(How many votes did Mr. Obama beat Mr. Romney by again in 2012? Five million? Hmmm.



But here's the real deal. Americans are tired of the BS. We are tired of being told that it's raining when we're being urinated on. We are tired of being told that we only have one of two choices, when both are rank.

The shift is toward the middle toward Independent voters ... every poll from every pollster demonstrates that fact.

Any party that does not recognize that most Americans are more moderate that their ridiculous extremes will indeed go the way of the Whigs.

Any party.

IMHO

a reply to: Gryphon66

there will never be a third party candidate win a major power position. Even something like a workers party will just be corrupted and joined into an existing sham. look at the tea party for example. the republicans took control of them and marginalized it to the point of being irrelevant on a national scale.

you also take it for fact that the entire election process is legit which in all likely hood is not unless you truly have faith that politicians and government are honest with their use of power. these are the same people that continue to work on every way conceivable to control and manipulate the people. The entire internet was just a tool for peaceful protest that would not form into actual physical action. personally i think its fate was sealed after the Bundy Ranch fiasco last year. anyone who think the government is not going to control any and all political dissent on the Internet now is fooling themselves. until people put down the social media and start interacting again nothing will change. most people are afraid to go outside the realm of PC in face to face encounters though.

personally I dont see any way possible out of this. people and cultures self segregating would help to bring them together. Only problem then is it becomes a tribal warfare thing and battles over territory.

a reply to: agenda51

By every poll, the number of voters describing themselves as Independent grows.

There are more self-identified Independents now than there are Democrats or Republicans.

We have the technology to register every valid American citizen to vote and allow them to vote electronically.

Ultimately, there's a "way out" of everything.

We may not want to live through it, but, humans are fairly resilient creatures.

To every thing there is a season ...

originally posted by: crazyewok
My take on US Republican/Democrat politics:

Democrats:
Big government in form of bloated social programs and welfare

Republicans:
Big government in form of bloated military, MIC ,intelligence and police.

Have I pretty much got it right?

Correct - except to add that both "sides" take their orders from Wall Street/bankers/elites. Very little that "W" did could be considered conservative...then Obama comes in with "hope and change", but nothing changed. We got 2 more terms of "W". It is only the blind sheep that think there was any change for the better.

More war, more regulations, more cronyism, less freedom, exemption from their own laws. That's the current legacy of both "sides".

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Indigo5

Now could you clarify for us, Buffet, Gates, Soros...to name just a few on the other side who manipulate, finance state Electoral college referenda, ad nauseam....

Strange that you request clarity? Because I have no idea what you are saying, asking or responding to?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

The shift is toward the middle toward Independent voters ... every poll from every pollster demonstrates that fact.

Any party that does not recognize that most Americans are more moderate that their ridiculous extremes will indeed go the way of the Whigs.

Any party.

IMHO

Objectively true on all points. this last observation needs clarifying though. I would argue that the slide of the GOP to it's right wing has already led to a 3 party system....Democrats, Mainstream (slightly moderate) Republicans and the Far Right. The left has no equivalency to the Far Right/TP...or to put it another way, the TP considers anyone not identical to themselves in ideology as "Liberal"...or "socialists"...Thus the RINO hunts that gutted declared GOP Moderates from the party.

The Democrats have won the popular vote for President in all but 1 election for the past 6 Presidential elections - 20+ years. And arguably 9-11 had good deal to do with pres. Bush winning his second term. that and John Kerry had the presence of a smiling turtle.

That is partly due to the GOPs slide to right wing of it's party and alienating average Americans.

The last Mid-Terms had the lowest turn-out in history and the Dems were at a disadvantage having more seats up for grabs.

2016 brings a Presidential election plus congressional elections...so turn-out will be more representative...and the GOP will have more seats up for grabs, although a smaller margin.

That means the GOP are vulnerable in 2016 in Congress and at a disadvantage for the WH race.

The far right thinks they are on a roll...the Mainstream republicans think the far right is doom for the GOP.

The far right wants to blockade congress from enacting anything of substance (which will need to be in the middle to pass)

The Mainstream GOP want to do something this year in Congress so they can claim achievements in 2016.

Interesting times..

a reply to: Indigo5

Apologies. It was sent to the wrong poster...old age...sigh.

a reply to: Indigo5

There's no such thing as the 'popular vote' for President. There are 50 state elections held for the office, not one.

Lack of voter turn-out for Romney-he actually carried the 'independent vote-was 4 million less Republican registered voters.

"The mainstream Republicans want to do nothing in Congress and will deliberately pass bills knowing Obama will veto and thereby blame him for blocking 'progress'.

Very interesting times....Hillary or Warren.....guffaw.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Indigo5

There's no such thing as the 'popular vote' for President. There are 50 state elections held for the office, not one.

Sure there is? It is just not the vote that decides who is President....Only once in the past 20+ years and 6 elections has a Republican candidate for president received the majority of votes...aka the Popular vote.

a reply to: Indigo5

There is no basis for a popular vote. It is a damage control item spun to justify, like now, and create a better picture for the Dems.

Might as well poll the world's population for moral support for an ever sliding left....

originally posted by: TrueBrit

originally posted by: nwtrucker

The Republican Establishment is motivated by fear. Fear of media backlash. Fear of gov't shutdown. Fear of the millennial generation.
Fear of the loss of Big business financial support....fear.

And this is why they fail.

It is the business of a government or party, properly attenuated to the land in which they live, assuming a certain level of civility and a properly aware population being present within it, to fear but one single thing. The ire of a population wronged, or betrayed by those tasked to represent them.

No other consideration should even cross the minds of those whose lot it is, to administrate on the behalf of the people. Not business, not foreign policy, but abject fear of failing those who vote for them, and the dire consequences which ought to come about for individuals seen to have usurped the power of the people for their own nefarious ends. The people must never be held to the old measure of "if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear.", but the political establishment? They must ALWAYS be held to that measure, and have their faces ground into it every time something less than ideal occurs under their watch.

The balance is off whenever that role is reversed, no matter whether the government of the day is right or left leaning.

And one might add, the balance is certainly off when the best one can hope for is that a bunch of malignant work shy schemers like the Republicans, merely block the efforts of another bunch of malignant work shy schemers to alter the course of certain laws and ideals. Hegemony is the least worst outcome, and by that very definition, is unacceptable.

I've said this many times...

They have done fMRI's on self-described "conservatives" and these people have a larger amygdala:

Peering inside the brain with MRI scans, researchers at University College London found that self-described conservative students had a larger amygdala (link is external) than liberals. The amygdala is an almond-shaped structure deep in the brain that is active during states of fear and anxiety. Liberals had more gray matter at least in the anterior cingulate cortex, a region of the brain that helps people cope with complexity.

Conservatives Big on Fear, Brain Study Finds

Also, conservative minded individuals seem to respond more to frightening stimuli:

If you walk away from holiday dinners fuming that conservative Uncle Morton just can't see your point of view, or that liberal Aunt Betty just doesn't get it, a new finding may make it easier to cool your jets. According to the study, conservatives and liberals pay attention to their environments differently, meaning the two sides of the political spectrum quite literally don't see eye-to-eye.

Conservatives pay more attention to negative stimuli compared with liberals, the study found.

Livescience

This is just another reason why there will always be a struggle in politics. In a way, it makes arguing back and forth almost pointless.

So, if you want a conservative to do what you want -- scare them into it. If you want a liberal to do something, explain it logically.

originally posted by: Indigo5
And lest anyone confuse the Kochs for Libertarians of the Ron Paul stripe...the Kochs despise Ron Paul and have never once invited him to their annual "economic conference" of Billionaires. Ron Paul and the Kochs part ways in that ROn Paul is opposed to regulations because he believes in free-markets for the people...while the Kochs believe in STRONGER, pro business government control over monetary policy absent regulations...aka..a government built to serve industry vs. the people.

After that 1980 embarrassing defeat David Koch and his Brother opted to take a more direct route and buy government.

The serious question I have with the Koch's is, at what point is what they're doing considered sedition? They're not trying to change a policy here and there. They're trying to overthrow and dismantle the entire government, and replace it with one of their own choosing.

a reply to: Aazadan

Really? How so? Is it as bad as Soros trying to manipulate electoral college systems in states via financing referenda?

Different than Corporate support for an illegal alien work permit program?

Sedition? That goes back a long ways. It only get labeled as such when it conflicts with one's personal agenda....

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Aazadan

Really? How so? Is it as bad as Soros trying to manipulate electoral college systems in states via financing referenda?

Different than Corporate support for an illegal alien work permit program?

Sedition? That goes back a long ways. It only get labeled as such when it conflicts with one's personal agenda....

No, it's worse than Soros. I don't approve of what Soros does either because when big money gets involved people lose their voice, but what Soros is doing is contributing to government. What the Kochs are trying to do is dismantle the government and replace it with fascism. They're actively trying to undermine the government and replace it with their own system where they're effectively kings or perhaps oligarchs.