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Ben Carson: Prisons prove being gay is a choice

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posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: MisterSpock


I don't think people want a candidate to agree with them 100%. I'm fine with disagreements, especially if the other has a well formed and logical reason for their believe or disagreement.


Puh-leeeze! Most are just parrots for any given administration!



Do you really think the statement about prison proving homosexuality is a choice falls under the above description?


I don't really care.

Does this, will this, have an impact on how he leads as president?


Yes, because he's obviously incapable of critical thought regarding social issues. Even simpler, he's incapable of understanding what not to say, which is an unheralded, but very important part of being the leader of the most powerful nation on earth.




posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

Because, um, opportunity.

And, um, because RAPE is a violent domination / violation of another human being, primarily, and NOT a representation fo sexuality?

I weep for our education system.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Metallicus

Because, um, opportunity.

And, um, because RAPE is a violent domination / violation of another human being, primarily, and NOT a representation fo sexuality?

I weep for our education system.


And let's not forget that like 9/10 rapes/sexual assaults have absolutely nothing to do with sexual attraction, and more to do with power and domination.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

Homosexuality is a choice. The same has any other form of sexuality. There are males and females who's gender is blurred due to body chemistry, but in the end their sexual choice is not predetermined by anything science has found.

I highly doubt anyone here is an expert in prison sexual deviancy, but it seems you are willing to jump to conclusions based off what you've seen on TV shows, versus understanding there are gay wings inside prisons. I would like to see a study that shows a correlation between years locked up and transfers to gay wings. That might either prove his point or disprove his point.

With that said he wasn't very smart to even discuss it because we live in an "idiocracy" where challenging thought isn't appreciated.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: Stuship
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Homosexuality is a choice. The same has any other form of sexuality. There are males and females who's gender is blurred due to body chemistry, but in the end their sexual choice is not predetermined by anything science has found.



The "definitive proof" arguement is not a good arguement.

Pin point the source of what causes earths gravity.

Pin point the source of what causes left handedness.

While there are scientific "indicators" ---- there is no pin pointed, undeniable, specific cause.

Just like sexual variations, science has found "indicators" that our sexual orientation is part of our natural pre-birth body development. A complicated mixture of what makes a human.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 05:17 PM
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I have heard this misconception in the past, as well as the more general misconception that because two men engage in sexual activity with one another that they must be homosexual. There are ignorant people who think only in terms of black and white, with no gray area. Unfortunately for them the world does not work this way. The vast majority of the time, sexual relationships between men in prison is not a homosexual connection of the same type as a homosexual relationship found outside of prison. This is because outside of prison a person is free to pursue whichever gender they feel an attraction towards, while in prison there is segregation based on gender- for those who do not understand what I am getting at, basically certain men choose to have sex with other men in prison because there are no females available. This is especially true for those serving extremely long sentences. They want to have sex because it is a natural and instinctual desire, but their options are limited. Or to put it another way, if they want to have sexual relations with someone, it must necessarily be a man. So they are not choosing such action because they are homosexual, and I can guarantee you that if they had the choice between a male and a female, the vast majority of these supposedly "gay" prisoners would choose a female.

Then there is the fact that once the majority of these supposed homosexual are released from prison, they do not exclusively pursue men. This is because attraction in general is NOT a choice, rather it is a biological drive that a person has ZERO conscious control over. They may have control over their actions, but their feelings and desires are only controlled by their brain chemistry. A man who sleeps with other men in prison out of necessity, which is essentially what it is if their instinctual drives to have sex are strong, by no means makes them homosexual. Homosexuality, in the sense that everyone uses the term, means that a man is attracted to other men exclusively. They have no attraction towards the female sex. Choosing to have sex with another man does not make you gay, UNLESS that choice is based upon a sexual attraction to men. As I already stated, homosexual behavior in prison does not stem from men being attracted to other men, but instead stems from the lack of females. A man can have relations with another man and not be gay, because being gay is not a choice, but a biological drive. It is the same way that a man is attracted to a woman, or a woman to a man...it is just that the wiring in the brain has made a man attracted to other men, and women attracted to other women.

Plus, why would hardcore criminals in prison, many of which are really tough guys, subject themselves to ridicule from their peers by CHOOSING to be gay? They wouldn't. Rather, they would get out of prison and resume their heterosexual lifestyle, because they are not gay. They are making a CHOICE to be gay in prison, but not in the way that the author implies. The choice is not to be gay, rather it is to have sex. That is it. If there were females present they would be chosen, thus the men are not gay. I cannot really explain it any better than I have in this post.

One of the most important indicators that homosexuality is not a choice comes from the behavior of non-human animals. There are a multitude of non-human animal species who engage in homosexual activity. How could this be a choice in animals who possess no reasoning abilities? Does this not imply that sexual attraction is a biological drive and NOT a choice, as I stated earlier? Evidence of this nature cannot be ignored, but those with an agenda they are attempting to further are the ones making a choice, that choice being to ignore anything contrary to their views. Again, these are the people who think only in terms of black and white, and those who disagree with them are just plain wrong in their minds. They do not possess the abilities necessary to even make logical arguments, rather they rely on appeals to emotion and other underhanded tactics, which are used to convince the simple-minded to follow along. Fox News is a great example.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: Metallicus

He didn't say it doesn't happen.
Nobody is saying it doesn't happen but maybe they are already gay or bi before they go in.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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Ben Carson, seeming to be guilty of Affirming the Consequent, sticks his foot in his mouth. Again.

I foresee a political season where I spend the entire election cycle telling every single person in the US how bad their candidate is. Because there isn't a decent candidate out there. Its all handpicked patsy's meant to cater to the whims of the corporate lobby that decided to put them in the race to begin with.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 05:38 PM
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originally posted by: Stuship

Homosexuality is a choice. The same has any other form of sexuality. There are males and females who's gender is blurred due to body chemistry, but in the end their sexual choice is not predetermined by anything science has found.

I highly doubt anyone here is an expert in prison sexual deviancy, but it seems you are willing to jump to conclusions based off what you've seen on TV shows, versus understanding there are gay wings inside prisons. I would like to see a study that shows a correlation between years locked up and transfers to gay wings. That might either prove his point or disprove his point.


Seeing your opinion that homosexuality is a choice is just that, your opinion, you have presented nothing to the conversation. You state science has not found anything to prove homosexuality is anything other than choice, yet you proclaim homosexuality is a choice, with nothing to back up your claim. Are you an expert on homosexuality?

I may not be "an expert in prison sexual deviancy", however, I do have some experience in prisons, and how they work. Your "gay wings", are Protective Custody wings. These include weaker more vulnerable inmates, as well as homosexual inmates. There are also inmates, who for whatever reason, feel safer in a Protective Custody wing, and staff agree they will function better in that environment rather than General Population.

As a general rule, inmates placed in Protective Custody, are identified at intake, or early in their stay. There are instances where inmates are moved into Protective Custody wings later in their term there, but most of these are situations where they have become targeted by gangs or individuals, or have snitched on someone. If someone can survive in prison beyond 2 years without being raped, chances are very good they will remain safer for the remainder of their sentence.

I know this is just my opinion, but I formed this opinion after working in Texas prisons over 20 + years and retiring.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 05:54 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
Why do inmates often choose to participate in homosexuality in prison? Are you saying it doesn't happen?


Yea, I mean, all those women available for them in prison, and they're still choosing guys...definitely proves homosexuality is a choice!

More like some guys give in to their urges, and with a lifetime of no women ahead of them, settle with what they can get.
edit on 5-3-2015 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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Whether or not it were a choice is irrelevant. Who people love or have sex with should be of no concern to anyone else.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
Why do inmates often choose to participate in homosexuality in prison? Are you saying it doesn't happen?



You think for some it isn't a "choice". Why do you think there are so many prison "rape" jokes out there?

2nd



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

This is why America is doomed....idiots have a say.

It like ATS eventually...doomed as its predominantly American voices.

Maybe someone should tell Ben Carson....being black is a choice!!



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 08:21 PM
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a reply to: pl3bscheese




Are left-handed individuals somehow more aware than right-handed?


I don't know if you're being glib, but the unconscious, of course, is a real thing. And my emphasis on the anatomy of the right hemisphere is meant to highlight how "bodily affects" (i.e. procedural knowledge, implicit relational knowing) become integrated within discursive awareness (left hemispheric), but in the process, often become dissociated as the semantic/linguistic aspect takes the foreground while the affects assume the background.

This is the cornerstone of modern psychoanalytic theory, and it bears to mention, again, that it is the right hemisphere which extends down into the brainstem (and its homeostatic activities), so, as you can see, all the complex object-relations which influence human attention (in the upper right hemisphere), are themselves dependent upon the evolutionary schemes of human motivational systems (centered in the hypothalamus/PAG and vagus nerve). The psychoanalysts Frank Lachmann (columbia) and Joseph Lichtenberg have described 7 such systems (based on clinical experience and infant studies) which impinge on human awareness: physiological, exploratory, sexual/sensual, attachment, caregiving (which results from the preverbal experiences of attachment) affiliative, and aversive (withdrawal/antagonistic).

Perhaps this might come off as rushed or scatterbrained (I find this subject immensely interesting!), and it might seem completely tangential in a thread about the science of homosexuality, but understanding the right hemisphere/unconscious affect association is important in this matter. The nucleus ambiguus (ventral vagal) is a part of the vagal nerve complex, it ennervates the cranial nerves (thus facial muscles), the larynx, pharynx, and also projects all the way up into the right orbitofrontal cortex. The dorsal portion of the vagus nerve, does the exact opposite. Unlike the ventral vagus, it is unmyelanted (implying slow nerve conduction), and instead of going 'upwards', it goes downwards in to the gut and sinoatrial nerve complex of the heart.

The neuroscientist Stephen Porges polyvagal theory has yet to really impact contemporary psychiatry and education, but its implications for education, and really, our understanding of the mind, is nothing short of breathtaking.

The ventral vagal complex enervates all those areas needed for (hypermetabolic) social activity: face, voice, and emotion regulation (orbitofrontal cortex). On the other hand, the dorsal vagal complex is the opposite. When it becomes active, it inhibits the ventral vagal complex (imagine discomfort in certain social situations in which you 'dissociate', or seem to lose cognitive/emotional interest in your environment).

The polyvagal theory gives us a physiological explanation for psychological processes. For example, in normative dissociation, or where 'two minds disagree', perhaps because one mind is a chemical pharmacist, and the other a philosopher. What needs to be understand, primarily, is that two 'worlds' are clashing, in that one persons meaning (and what that meaning is for the self-structure) is dissonant for the other. Again, and again, and again, throughout human history, when two people with dissonant meaning structures meet (consider the influence of affiliative motivations and aversive motivations in this instance, as well as the more fundamental 'self-structure', or "ego", which experiences depressive affect when confronted by meanings that contradict its own) each individual dissociates - that is, they experience affects (motivational affects) which guide cognitive reasoning according to homeostatic principles (i.e. to maintain positive affect/ prevent negative affect). To not be aware of how you 'feel', indeed, to feel too greatly at times of disagreement, is an act of remarkable ignorance.

I was thinking earlier about my comment "neuro-psychoanalysis is the deepest science" and I was considering how difficult that would be for someone who isn't specialized in this area, or who might be antagonistic towards it, might experience that assertion. It's not something that can be easily said as I am perfectly aware of what it might feel like. But consider what the deepest issues human beings deal with; global warming, war, bullying, abuse of power, machiavellian deceptiveness, and more generally, not relating to people as other subjects. All of these behaviors are the result of 'not knowing' anything about how the self becomes constituted, and how the self is organized, fundamentally, according to physiological principles of homeostasis. Could there be anything more important in mans future evolution than understanding the IDIOCY of his infantile need to "feel good"? Especially when we actually possess the neurological hardware to 'map', in a mindful way, what it is were experiencing, and more importantly, WHY we are experiencing what were experiencing?




Or a first question might be more appropriate, is there evidence which suggests left-handed people are right brain dominant, and might their left brain become the "unconscious" psyche?


A certain portion of left-handed people (can't recall the percentage; I think it's something like 30%) have inverted hemispheres, where functions usually on the right are on the left side.




I still think you're holding weight towards your focus. It's also important to inform you that I don't necessarily disagree with your observations, rather think you may be leaning towards judgments that are not fully supported.


It's political correctness and nothing more. Have you read the well-known book, "the brain that changes itself" by the psychiatrist Norman Doidge? Towards the end of the book he mentions in passing how homosexuality, as implied by neuroplasticity research in all these other areas, might be just as malleable as the other affective-properties of consciousness. He dedicated 3 sentences to it, before he turned to other matters.

I couldn't help but giggle to myself how he, just like myself, experience an "inner-censor" when he subject of homosexuality comes up. Why else do you think I am so loquacious in this thread? Do you think this is easy to talk about - let alone, publicly?

In anycase, I am able confident in my assertion that political correctness and other political exigencies hinder research in this area, and, as I've indicated, for fairly justifiable reasons.
edit on 5-3-2015 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

Guy, I'm asking a legitmate question in my mind, not taking shots at you. Of course the unconscious is a real thing. Not sure why you assume I think otherwise? I'm not sure that it has much to do with the right-brain, though. I was wondering your honest assessment of if left-handed individuals, being supposedly right-brain dominant, were in some way more aware in a global sense? Perhaps I misunderstood you. I'm left-handed.



posted on Mar, 5 2015 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower

Lol, this accusation makes a lot of sense [sarc], as it explains why children go through brutality in school because of their "gay" tendencies that are unbeknown to them, literally built into them. I have seen many instances through out years of social work where young boys act very flamboyant (age 6-10) and there is no reason they should be as neither of their parents have taught them to be that way. So, these kids would learn from getting bullyed and beated from acting that way and change, if it were a matter of choice. I have had many homosexual friends throughout my life, a few very close to me. One I was roommates with throughout college and I could tell he was likely gay before he ever came out (he was never interested in girls, was always into fashion, having sleek stylistic furniture, but did not have a lisp or act flamboyant in anyway, etc), and I was the first person he ever told that he was.

I can tell anyone 100% it is not by choice. The prison=gay claim is only because their is a distinct system, a heirarchy consisting of only men, where the weaker will be broken into submission by others. This is a created system that puts highly sex craved men around other men that are willing to submit, get analplunged, in order to divert from being beaten and harmed. It is not every man that comes out gay, typically the "top" will not come out of prison gay, why is that? they just want to get their dick wet and they have no other option, but I guarentee if their was a Big Fat Betty that these men could pass around by earning her from good behaviour, they most certainly would rather have that fat butt over some hairy butt.

The prison=gay claim is about as equivelent as taking a white preppy kid from a wealthy family and plopping him down in Compton at age 19 for 10 years. Do you think he would still dress the same, talk the same, be as intelligent, like the same type of things? Take that kid at 29, 10 years being in that class of people and return him where he came, how long until he returns to where he was at 19? Or would he ever? Never, he would show parts of each experience in his demeanor and personality forever.

The men that come out "gay," and choose to stay that way, is likely the cause of a bicuroiuousness that always existed within him, and he was forced to do it once and enjoyed it. He liked the feeling of being another mans woman. He liked feeling protected. Every man can get an orgasm from anal excitement btw, that is scientific, though many do not accept the original feeling. So by being a "bottom" for so long, they accept it as who they are and continue it on the outside, as they were likley happy and felt safe while doing it while in prison. But there is no reason why they couldn't meet up with a woman they liked as well and have sex with her as well after sometime of being out of prison.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: dismanrc
For many years the gay society railed against the efforts of people trying to figure out a medical way of "fixing" the issue saying there is nothing medically wrong that needed "fixing". Now the cry has flipped and and it "I was born this way" which implies a physical essence that could be changed.

can't have it both ways.


A physical essence that could be changed?
You mean like changing the color of your skin?

You seem to think that both of your statements above cannot live together, that they are opposites.
Obviously this mentality is blatantly false, I can say categorically that nothing needs to be changed, and state categorically that I was born this way.

The argument is against both positions. No one else has the right to claim that I can be "changed" (and especially not an adult inflicting that psychologically damaging view on children with Christian quackery), and no one else has the right to claim that I was not born this way, as a form of attacking who I am or what I am "allowed" to do when my life impacts no one else.


You can change the color of your skin. People do it every day. Dies, pigments, even sun tans change the color of your skin. With the advance of genetic work people are even beginning to tailor the traits of the unborn kids to include eye color and other thing. Anything your are BORN with can be changed weather you like it or not.

And before you start stamping on "Christians", that is not the only religion or social structure that have a negative view on this issue.

That is the reason i believe it is a choice. I may not believe in your choice. I may not even like your choice, but it is YOUR choice. As long as you not hurting anybody or forcing it on someone else I will defend YOUR choice.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:01 AM
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a reply to: dismanrc



You can change the color of your skin. People do it every day. Dies, pigments, even sun tans change the color of your skin. With the advance of genetic work people are even beginning to tailor the traits of the unborn kids to include eye color and other thing. Anything your are BORN with can be changed weather you like it or not.


Wow. I mean really WOW. Comparing the color of skin to homosexuality? To who you are?

Can you change who you are?



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 07:46 AM
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a reply to: rupertg

Sounds like he's the one in a thousand that used these things responsibly. I still think almost everything he says is silly and nonsensical, but I think he has a point here. These systems are broken Clinton have a great speech on it.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 07:56 AM
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Ben simply proved...he's an idiot with intelligence. Am I the only one that thinks....Ben fears prison.



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