Masonry....and Christianity are un-Christian according to this.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie

are you so dense that you fail to see that they call him god. a diety.

They can call him a god which is their prerogative but a god is not omnipotent. Only a Supreme Being is, which is the requirement I mentioned.

This was explained ad nauseum in the thread I mentioned as your type of argument is presented several times and addressed. There can be many 'gods' but only one God.

a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog


I saw a documentary on that. They don't tell you what god they are talking about until you are in and higher up the ranks. they just say god so that could mean anything. I personally think their god is satan. Satan was always power hungry and wanted to become a god. I think he tells his worshippers he is their god. They follow his orders. that was they have their satanic symbols after him.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

I have never understood where they got the number 13 from? I also never understood where the number 666 came from and its meaning. could you possible tell me about that. does the number 13 have anything to do with Jesus and his Disciples?

There is a difference between preaching and teaching others about God and associating with them for pleasure and fun.

Jesus came into the world to save sinners, not the righteous. Although we are all sinners.

Notice what scripture states about having association with people who practice vile things:

(1 Corinthians 15:33) Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.

So while a Christian would never shun a non-believer, he would apply the Bible principle that having association with people who don't believe in the true God would be to their detriment, and would avoid unnecessary association with suchlike ones.

There is no contradiction there. Here is a good principle:

(Proverbs 13:20) . . .The one walking with the wise will become wise, But the one who has dealings with the stupid will fare badly.

In this connotation the word stupid does not mean uneducated, or dimm-witted. Rather it means lacking moral character, wicked.

To become a Freemason one has to believe in a Supreme being. That is fine. Where it goes wrong is the fact that they don't have to believe in the true God Jehovah. Even though they use Jehovah's name as if it grants them special magical abilities. In fact at the top many of these "enlightened" individuals believe in a Supreme being known as Lucifer, although they don't believe in Satan (Satan isn't Lucifer in the Bible either) they do believe they can tap into a universal power. ''

Another thing to note, in order to become a Freemason one must believe the soul is immortal. Notice what scripture states:

(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul who sins is the one who will die.

God's word clearly teaches that the soul dies. So just to become an initiate into Freemasonry one must espouse falsehood that stems from Babylon. Babylon is where the teaching of an immortal soul stems from (along with a plethora of other God dishonoring doctrines such as the Hell-fire doctrine, as well as the trinity).

originally posted by: tonton20
a reply to: nancyliedersdeaddog


I saw a documentary on that. They don't tell you what god they are talking about until you are in and higher up the ranks. they just say god so that could mean anything. I personally think their god is satan. Satan was always power hungry and wanted to become a god. I think he tells his worshippers he is their god. They follow his orders. that was they have their satanic symbols after him.

they, being masons? We don't ever tell you who God is. You should already have a grasp on that before you join. Our God is whomever the individual prays to. Most are Christians in my area and pray to God, the Father. But in some areas, different faiths may use a different name for their Deity. It's a shame you let a documentary give you your information on this without deeper inspection.

originally posted by: iNobody

To become a Freemason one has to believe in a Supreme being. That is fine. Where it goes wrong is the fact that they don't have to believe in the true God Jehovah. Even though they use Jehovah's name as if it grants them special magical abilities. In fact at the top many of these "enlightened" individuals believe in a Supreme being known as Lucifer, although they don't believe in Satan (Satan isn't Lucifer in the Bible either) they do believe they can tap into a universal power. ''

Um....no. We don't claim any special powers, or abilities. Unless you call tolerance, brotherly love, and charity powers. That Lucifer crap was spread by simple minded folks a long time ago. Hell, Taxil even printed a retraction, which doesn't seem to find it's way into "truthful" discussion on masonry. I have an idea, rather than tell folks all about a group you don't belonging to, nor understand, why not ask a few questions?

Another thing to note, in order to become a Freemason one must believe the soul is immortal. Notice what scripture states:

(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul who sins is the one who will die.

God's word clearly teaches that the soul dies. So just to become an initiate into Freemasonry one must espouse falsehood that stems from Babylon. Babylon is where the teaching of an immortal soul stems from (along with a plethora of other God dishonoring doctrines such as the Hell-fire doctrine, as well as the trinity).

The only requirement is to believe in a single creator. We don't specify that you call him Jesus, or God, or Jehovah. Just that you have a belief in him. Although we don't require anyone to believe the soul is immortal, being a spiritual person brought up in the Christian faith, I do believe the soul is immortal. If you do not believe this, what do you think happens when we die?

a reply to: network dude

Network dude, now that we are conversing, firstly I want to say I deeply respect you and your opinions and beliefs. I am speaking of what I know from the Bible and family history in Freemasonry. Perhaps you have removed the requirement to believe the soul is immortal. But I have a "Freemason" Bible from my grandfather that has a little tract inside it for initiates into the order, and one of the requirements listed on it is to believe in an immortal soul.

I also realize that the majority of Freemasons do not believe in Lucifer. But there are those that do, especially at the top. My grandfather was a very big man in Freemasonry, and he certainly did believe in him, and was a sorcerer, and had supernatural abilities, which I will not go into here. I did make a thread about my experiences awhile ago, although I did not go into full detail about the occult origins of my family.

To answer your question about what happens when we die? The Bible states this:

(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul who sins is the one who will die.

So if you believe in the Bible, which is God's word of truth you know that death is the end of things. It says this:

(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

Death is the opposite of life. You are not more alive than ever when you die. You cease to exist. You have no more memories, knowledge, wisdom. You can no longer think or work. It is like the flame on a candle wick. Before you lit the flame it did not exist. After you extinguish the flame it no longer is.

a reply to: iNobody

Thanks for the reply. I am sorry if I don't believe the "higher level masons" story. I have investigated any and all aspect of it to know that it's a story, much like the Lucifer worship stuff. Sure there may be some folks who go for that sort of thing, but it has nothing to do with masonry. The trouble is, it can never be proven, so it's easy to use it against us. (if we deny it, we either are lying to protect our secrets, or we aren't high enough to know the "truth")

As far as the soul is concerned, I am pretty sure we never mandated any beliefs, but we do teach that our existence here on Earth is to build a better person and death is just another part of the journey. Masons are free to not believe in the afterlife should they chose, but I fail to understand how a belief in God, and understanding of the Bible would bring anyone to the assumption that death is the end. (my opinion)

Life is just one aspect of existence. As the universe is infinite, so is the journey of the soul. But that is just my personal beliefs based on what I have decided to grab onto with study of religious and spiritual lessons.

Freemasonry isn't a religion, and isn't there to replace religion. It's a fraternal organization with a spiritual aspect.

a reply to: network dude

That is okay if you wish not to believe. And I understand we all have our own journey in life. Also it is reasonable that people, such as yourself must think that there is more to life than just this existence. The universe is infinite, true, but it is not eternal. Only Jehovah God is eternal. Even his only-begotten son Jesus had a beginning. That is what begotten means, to create.

And certainly this life isn't all there is. That is what God's word is for. All true men of faith in all ages of man have known of the coming resurrection in a future time when everyone dead will be brought back to life:

(John 5:28, 29) . . .Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice  and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

The memorial tombs are God's memory of the person who is dead. When you die everything you did goes with you to the heavenly Father. And he promises a time when he will bring you back to life, in better conditions.

Jehovah God alone was the one that possessed immortality. He is eternal from time past to time in the future, he cannot die, ever.

The first person to be brought back to life after death in an immortal spirit form was Jesus:

(1 Timothy 6:15, 16) . . .He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. . . .

There are a select few from among mankind that will be raised up after their death during the revelation of Jesus to mankind as immortal spirit beings in the divine imagine of Jehovah God himself as well:

(1 Corinthians 15:53) . . .For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality.

(1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) . . .because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words.

The majority of mankind who are dead will be raised back to the prospect of eternal life on a future paradise earth when no human rule will exist:

(Revelation 21:3, 4)  With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”


(Psalm 37:11) . . .But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

(Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it.

originally posted by: iNobody

I also realize that the majority of Freemasons do not believe in Lucifer. But there are those that do, especially at the top.

Define what the 'top' is in your own estimation.

a reply to: iNobody

How do you deal with John 3:16?

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Kind of goes against what you are saying here does it not?

a reply to: network dude

See this reply:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If you know what it is you don't have to ask. If you don't know you probably won't acknowledge it or believe to begin with. But it is those who have been contacted by demons and have been chosen. They are on the top in that they are revealed knowledge the rest are not given.

a reply to: iNobody

I see, so the 'top' of Masonry is not anyone in a leadership position but people contacted by demons.

How do you know they have been contacted by demons? Why method of confirmation are you using? Can you provide the names of some of these individuals?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes, I can. And no I won't.

a reply to: iNobody


I asked because what you said, seems to conflict with that verse. Eternal life seems pretty cut and dry.

And as to the "top masons", who imparts this knowledge on the one's you are talking about , and how is it that you know this, yet none of the brothers I know do? (keep in mind they are all members of this fraternity)

originally posted by: iNobody
a
Yes, I can. And no I won't.

Then quite frankly your claims are wholly without merit and not germane to the conversation.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
True, but it’s not due to being a Mason.

a reply to: tonton20
Ridiculous.

As you move through the ranks, there is no revelation of a “Masonic god” nor worship of Satan.

Freemasonry uses no satanic symbols. Suppositions such as this come from a lack of understanding of Freemasonry and the use of symbols in general.

a reply to: iNobody
The point of Freemasonry is not to argue over whose god is the true god or argue over the pathway to salvation…that is up to each person and their faith.

Who are these top individuals who believe in Lucifer?

The soul still has the ability to be immortal; it's all up to God.

a reply to: iNobody
Well, even if your father believed as you say, that doesn’t set a precedence for the entirety of the fraternity…even the “top”.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: iNobody


I asked because what you said, seems to conflict with that verse. Eternal life seems pretty cut and dry.

And as to the "top masons", who imparts this knowledge on the one's you are talking about , and how is it that you know this, yet none of the brothers I know do? (keep in mind they are all members of this fraternity)

You missed a post somewhere in-between if you think what was stated conflicts with John 3:16. Go back, please, and reread the post linked you.

As for your question as to how you may not know? The world is small, but it is bigger than you.

a reply to: iNobody

Is your grandfather still alive? If so, I would be extremely interested in talking with him.