Masonry....and Christianity are un-Christian according to this.

a reply to: Develo

If not for differing opinions, can you imagine how boring this site might be?

a reply to: network dude

if you look at that passage, it says,

you shall "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven".
not hang out with them and accept their gods. it doesn't say you have to accept their gods, just love them. you know you can love someone with out liking them or the things they do or say.

now if your honest, i bet there are people that you love that have something in their lives that you disagree with and can't stand it, and try to show them the errors of their ways. same with Jesus.

and for that matter aren't you doing the exact same thing, that your slamming him for. aren't you trying to get people to accept someones belief while placing yours to the side.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Develo

If not for differing opinions, can you imagine how boring this site might be?

Fundamentalists don't have opinions, they follow dogmas.

And yes, dogmas are boring because they leave no place for discussion.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

In masonry, we all meet to do whatever the lodge business is. We do say prayers. Since we can have brothers from all walks of life and differing faiths, we use generic terms for God. Nowhere in freemasonry is it taught that all names for deity are pointing to the same almighty creator, but for me, that's what I get out of it. So when a man prays to Allah, and I pray to God, it's my belief that both messages go to the same creator. In that light, I don't believe that I have the right to judge who's religious path is more correct. I just know that the one I am on is right for me.

Would you have a problem being in a group of people, some of whom may be of different faiths, and get along with each other?

ETA: when you say accept their Gods, I think you may be misunderstanding the whole process. I (and freemasonry in general) accept that people may have different religions, but that doesn't' mean we all have to believe what each other believes, only that we respect their choices.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie

now if your honest, i bet there are people that you love that have something in their lives that you disagree with and can't stand it, and try to show them the errors of their ways. same with Jesus.

Not to minimize what you said, but if I had a good friend who loved Punk Rock, yet I could not stand it, I don't feel it would be my place to try to show them how wrong they were for liking something that had potential to make your ears bleed. They would have their reasons for liking what they liked, and I have the choice to either agree, or disagree. But wouldn't it be rude of me to assume I knew what was best for their taste in music?

a reply to: network dude

Would you have a problem being in a group of people, some of whom may be of different faiths, and get along with each other?

no, i do it all the time. but i don't accept that the wiccans praying to mother earth, the satanist praying to satan, the muslim praying to allah ( let me clarify here, i realize that they say it's the same god as Jews and Christians believe in. there is much more i can say here but that is not what this is about. for now let's just say i don't believe it.), the shinto's praying to their multiple gods, and so on, are praying to who i believe to be God.
if i was to accept that their god is the same as my God or equal to him, i bring my creator down to the same level as theirs, giving them the same honor as mine.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

I guess I just don't see it that way. I feel strong enough in my faith that allowing others to believe as they do, in no way lessens my beliefs, or faith. If anything, it offers me the opportunity to discuss their views, and beliefs, while sharing mine with them. As long as nobody brings in the "my God can beat up your God", then how can it be anything other than a positive experience?

Some theories are the Jesus spent his teen and young adult life wandering around and learning from other religious beliefs. Since the Bible doesn't follow his life during those years, I think it's a plausible idea.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
...
the satanist praying to satan...

Satan is not a Supreme Being so you would not have this experience. There is a fairly lengthy thread on this I authored just a few down from this one.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus


it is a fact that people still pray to him and call him their god regardless of what your thread says.
so to those, he is their god. supreme being or not as you put it.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie

it is a fact that people still pray to him and call him their god regardless of what your thread says.
so to those, he is their god. supreme being or not as you put it.

You obviously did not read the thread as there were actual Satanists, both Theistic and non-Theistic and none of them worship Satan as a Supreme Being.

Additionally, a Satanist would not find anything of benefit in Masonry as it revolves around monotheism along with various charitable teachings and would be incompatible with their beliefs.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

I was initially looking up what a "Luciferian" was when I found the site I linked. It kind of irked me that they made some general statements about 'what masons believe' as if we are all of the same mindset. I saw that as no different than saying "all Christians think ......., or all Asian people are.......".

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Then, Thanks. I didn't see that made perfectly clear.

a reply to: KSigMason

Your ilk have taken the love and compassion out of Christianity replaced it with militancy, paranoia, hatred, and fear.

That was a bit uncalled for. All I stated was that Christians do not consider themselves as part of the universal brotherhood of man. We are sanctified in Christ, and that is exactly what Jesus taught. This fraternaty is open to anyone who rests their faith in Christ. We are not cherry picked by a pannel of judges.

Are you a mason, sir?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

well explain this,

Invocation to Satan
AVE SATANA! Hail, Satan, Lord of Darkness,
King of Hell,
Ruler of the Earth,
God of this World!
God Who invites us to become as gods!
Muse of our civilization,
Dread Enemy of its tyrant god!
Satan, mighty Liberator,
Bearer of true Light!
God of our flesh,
Godof our minds,
God of our innermost Will!
O mighty Lord Satan,
teach us to become strong and wise!
Teach us to vanquish the enemies
of our freedom and well-being!
REGE SATANA!

from this site.
Theistic Satanism: Home

five times in this prayer he is called god, by actually using the word. four times the word lord, ruler, and king is used just as in the bible for describing,Yawh,Yeshua. if that is not calling him their god i don't know what is.

and don't say that this is not true satanism or satanist, that's like saying that, baptists, methodist, pentecostal's, lutherans catholics, are not Christians. they are different domination's.

just as Christians, satanist are very diverse in their beliefs, you can't say that they all believe the same way. no matter how well versed you think that you are.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Did you even read that website? Her beliefs are exactly what I told you they would be:

I regard both Satan and the Christian "God" as just two of the many gods that likely exist. I am not inclined to regard either of them as cosmic dieties, i.e. I am not inclined to regard them as omnipotent, omnipresent, etc., just a lot more powerful than humans.

She is not monotheistic and therefore a person like her would not find anything of value in Masonry as their belief system is completely different.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
All I stated was that Christians do not consider themselves as part of the universal brotherhood of man.

I don't know who gives you the right to speak in all Christians name but no, this is not true. Maybe some Christian sects in the US consider their kind as separate from humanity, and their God as above the God of other religions, but "Christians" do certainly not all believe the same.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie
In that argument, the being they pray to is the same Satan described in the Bible as the angel who was cast out of heaven by God. While they may pray to him/it, the fact that God created him/it would make Satan less powerful than God. And by virtue of them acknowledging God as they did in that prayer, would negate Satan as a 'supreme ruler'. (at least as I see it)

a reply to: hounddoghowlie
And nowhere in Freemasonry do we have to accept another’s god as our own.

You seem to be confusing tolerance with acceptance.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
It was called for and I would say that you do not speak for all of Christendom.

Well, Freemasonry and Christianity are two different things; it’s like comparing apples to oranges. Christianity for it’s purpose and goals should be inclusive and seek converts.

I am a Mason as well as a Christian.

originally posted by: KSigMason

I am a Mason as well as a Christian.

You are so going to Hell.



Network and I have a beach chair ready for you next to the Lake of Fire.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

are you so dense that you fail to see that they call him god. a diety.

here from the wiki cause it's fast.

Main article: Theistic Satanism Theistic Satanism (also known as traditional Satanism, Spiritual Satanism or Devil worship) is a form of Satanism with the primary belief that Satan is an actual deity or force to revere or worship.[12][13] Other characteristics of theistic Satanism may include a belief in magic, which is manipulated through ritual, although that is not a defining criterion, and theistic Satanists may focus solely on devotion. Unlike LaVeyan Satanism, theistic Satanism believes that Satan is a real being rather than a symbol of individualism.theistic Satanists

the link that i posted is there, reference number 13.
now i can continually pull up sites that say that they see him as a divine entity.
such as this one, they don't allow right clicking, so you'll have to go to the site and read the second paragraph. for that matter read the whole thing and does it not say the same thing i said. many different belief systems held by many different people
Theistic Church of Satan

then here is the definition for divine as a adjective.

divine adjective di·vine də-ˈvīn :
relating to or coming from God or a god »
di·vin·erdi·vin·est Full Definition of DIVINE
1 a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god b : being a deity c : directed to a deity
2 a : supremely good : superb b : heavenly, godlike

did you notice the word deity.

deity noun de·i·ty ˈdē-ə-tē, ˈdā- : a god or goddess » plural de·i·ties
Full Definition of DEITY 1 a : the rank or essential nature of a god : divinity b capitalized : god 1, supreme being
2 : a god or goddess
3 : one exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful

as i said just like Christians have many beliefs and practices, there are many different beliefs and practices in theistic satanism , there are many who say that satan is a god. no matter what you say.



ETA: jsut one or two more sites.

Theistic Satanism is a sect of Satanism, not to be confused with modern Satanism,and the teachings of the church of Satan. The word Satan is defined as Adversary and is a title not a specific name. A Theistic Satanist Recognizes an Adversarial Deity,and many Adversarial Deity's Exist. this website does not promote one Idea or doctrine of Theistic Satanism. what this page does promote is the many Philosophies and practices that exist in the sect that is Theistic satanism
Theistic Satanism

We practice our faith to our Monotheistic God duly named Satan and understand that Satan has been thousands of names and corruptions throughout history which spans almost 5000 years.
Temples of Satan