An Israeli Insult

a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Even the CIA and Mossad couldn't make that statement. Prove it. Show where the CIA or the Mossad says every intelligence agency know Iran isn't making Nukes.

Then in the following post, you state how would we feel being surrounded by armed enemies, like Russia or Iran?

You flip-flop between justifying Iran wanting nukes then post they don't want nukes.

It's simple they aren't going to be permitted to get nukes...after all they don't want them anyways...LMAO

a reply to: nwtrucker

People are saying, that as it stands, nothing shows they are going for the bomb and the intel backs that up.

And even if they were, who could blame them when they are surrounded by enemies?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
People are saying

Who are these people anyway?

that as it stands, nothing shows they are going for the bomb and the intel backs that up.

Do you mean the same Intel that you yourself claimed long ago here was meaningless, and also fraudulent in regards to WMD's in Iraq?

Some consistency accompanying your hypocrisy would be nice, don't yuh think? ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: AnAbsoluteCreation

Even the CIA and Mossad couldn't make that statement. Prove it. Show where the CIA or the Mossad says every intelligence agency know Iran isn't making Nukes.

Then in the following post, you state how would we feel being surrounded by armed enemies, like Russia or Iran?

You flip-flop between justifying Iran wanting nukes then post they don't want nukes.

It's simple they aren't going to be permitted to get nukes...after all they don't want them anyways...LMAO

I don't want to argue over semantics. Listen to me clearly, nukes or no nukes... Iran is going to be invaded. And it's not going to have anything to do with nukes. It's going to be because of the reasons I stated in an earlier post a couple pages back.

If you really sat down and decided to research the things I've stated in an objective manner, I know you would start sensing something eerie. Nothing is as it seems.

AAC.

originally posted by: sueloujo
a reply to: xuenchen
The world is mad when children are dying of starvation in Gaza ...

"There is no starvation in Gaza. No one has died of hunger," Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Gaza's Ministry of Justice, told London's Daily Telegraph. Sticking to the Hamas party line, he then went on to criticize Israel's embargo as "inhumane" and "brutal."

link

Kind of like stating that the US sends billions in aid, isn't it?

Harte

originally posted by: AnAbsoluteCreation
If anything has changed, why wouldn't those same agencies recant? It's because nothing has changed.

Not to mention, once you start the process of developing a nuclear bomb, you must first change your nuclear capabilities to produce weapons grade uranium, the housing to hold the material, and the mechanisms to get make the bomb fire. Those processes are decade long processes. Not to mention, Israel has been assassinating all of their nuclear scientists so they're running low on manpower.

But if you want some more input on the fact that they are NOT building a bomb, read these.

Finally, even if Iran had a bomb, the idea that they would use it and sacrifice their entire country is laughable.

AAC

Your sources indicate that, in 2012, there was not enough information available to make a conclusion that Iran was planning to build a bomb.

Iran recently gave up a stock of 20% U-235 enriched uranium. Normal reactor grade uranium is about 3.5% enriched. 20% is often used for research reactors, as Iran claimed it was making this for.

However, the quantity they ceded was far too much for any research program in Iran. Admittedly, it was not enough to make a lot of 93% - the usual weapons-grade. It should be noted that 20% can be used for nuclear weapons as well, but each individual warhead requires quite a lot of 20% uranium.

Iran has the capacity to quite quickly enrich their 20% enriched uranium (assuming they have any left now) to weapons-grade:

Iran’s operating IR-1 machines, with about 9,000 separative work units (SWU) per year of combined capacity, could allow Tehran to enrich natural uranium stock into a sufficient quantity of HEU (25 kilograms) for one nuclear bomb in about six months if such an effort were not detected first.

link (from June 2014.)
Note that the centrifuge capacity in the above would allow them to create enough 93% uranium for one bomb in 6 months. Note also that Iran lacked that capability in March 2012 when your sources were commenting. Note also that this timeline applies to naturally occurring uranium, which is only around 0.7% U-238.

At the 20% level, the weapons-grade U-235 could very easily be created in FAR less time.

Sorry, but this is definitely something to be legitimately concerned about. You can't simply brush it aside by putting your own words in Mossad's mouth or pretending "everyone agrees" that Iran is not planning to build a bomb.

The results of an Iranian nuclear weapon would not rely solely on their use of it, you know. I mean, I get that they'd be insane to launch.

But what about the resulting arms race in the ME?

Also, are you willing to stake your life on the idea that Hezbollah won't use it?
If so, then put yourself in Tel Aviv and see if you still have that perspective.

And what about the security of the material? You gonna trust the Iranian security personnel?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

It depends on what you think is starving? How anyone can dispute the children (and general population) of gaza are malnourished and dying as a result is beyond me.

www.theguardian.com...

imeu.org...

Pretty funny yet sad video here: Watch, Laugh, then Cry – Netanyahu Choreographs a Humiliated Congress

First, the Congress is completely humiliated, dancing to the tune of Netanyahu who is the representative of a foreign power. That humiliation extends to every American who cast a vote, expecting the Congresspeople to represent the voters, the American voters – not the Israeli ones.


Second, there is a sentiment found in “progressive” circles that the US is the boss in the U.S. Israeli power dance. Their vulgar “theory” of imperialism tells them that. If this bit of humiliation does not wake them up, who knows what will. Empires are full of examples of the “lesser” ally pulling the strings to make the greater one dance. And Israel with its well funded operation that extends from AIPAC to many Temples and fundamentalist evangelical churches provides a super charged example of this kind of operation to subvert sovereignty.

Finally, Obama is not to be lionized in this encounter either. He is not trying to make peace of sorts with Iran for noble purposes. He and others like Brzezinski want to get the Israeli albatross cut loose from their necks; they want out of the Mideast quagmire which makes the populace war weary and takes up resources. Obama wants those resources freed up to take down Russia and China. And that is even more dangerous than the involvement in the Middle East since that can lead to World War III. The need for a solid and massive anti-interventionist movement of the Ron Paul type is desperately needed.
So watch, laugh and cry.

Will post the video here once in makes Youtube.

a reply to: SheopleNation

People of this thread and if you are talking the bush rummy Intel then yes that was bunk and everyone knows it.

But good thing we are not only talking US Intel here or you might have a point.

First.. every butt kissing member of Congress who attended that speech should be removed from their position. Boehner should be arrested as a traitor to his country and all aid to Israel should immediately stop.

This was nothing more than an attempt to go behind our President's back and undermine our current negotiations with Iran. I don't care if you love Obama or you hate him. You do NOT make our country look incredibly week by inviting a foreign head of state into Congress to lobby AGAINST our own President. I am absolutely disgusted that this was allowed to even take place.

Netanyahu has been pulling this "weeks away from nuclear weapons" crap for over a decade now. He was wrong then and he is wrong now. Guess what... Iran is completely allowed to have a nuclear energy program by international law. And.. as a standing member of the NNPT, we are obligated to HELP Iran achieve that goal.

ISRAEL on the other hand.. is NOT a signing member of the NNPT, and who the entire world KNOWS has a biological and thermonuclear stock pile. I find it pathetic that this war mongering idiot Netanyahu keeps going before our Politicians, demanding that we send OUR citizens... OUR soldiers to war for him.

I don't care about Iran one way or another. If they want nuclear energy so be it. I'd rather have us cooperating with them and keeping an eye on things, then attacking them outright thus making them pursue a weapon even harder. Iran has said time and time again that they aren't pursuing nuclear weapons. Netanyahu's own MOSSAD has stated they don't believe Iran is trying to acquire weapons grade uranium. Netanyahu is like the spoiled child, stomping his feet because he is not getting his way. He's going before congress behind the President's back is no different than a child going to his dad, because "mommy said no".

Israel is becoming a liability to the United States and as such we need to cease ALL aid to them until they perhaps LEARN to be a civilized member of society. Funny how not a single mention of the war crimes committed by Israel was mentioned. Yet all of those people could stand and applaud this man and cheer as if he were some celebrity. That's right scum bags... bow to your master. We know you certainly don't serve THIS country.

Strange how Democrats are now denouncing Israel.

All while recently passing every aid bill to Israel.



The Democrats love Israel.

So why all the hyperbole now?

a reply to: DerekJR321

So what your saying is screw freedom of speech?

a reply to: thesaneone

How exactly does Freedom of Speech apply here? By that notion.. I too should be allowed to go before Congress and gripe about every complaint I have. There is a difference between freedom of speech and trying to subvert the President.

And to add to that.. would it be "freedom of speech" if Obama turned around and asked Ali Khamenei to speak before congress?

Israelis, Iranians pay the same price for nuclear ambitions

The discussion surrounding Netanyahu’s Congress speech presumes that Iran does not have a right to nuclear weapons but that Israel does. Another way of looking at things is a nuclear-free Middle East, and an alliance between the oppressed citizens of Iran and Israel.

By Mati Shemoelof

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s trip to the United States, which was ostensibly meant to address the danger of Iran’s nuclear program, has a hidden angle that goes unspoken in the Israeli media.

The discussion surrounding Iran deals mainly with whether the Islamic Republic has nuclear capabilities. This angle does not deal with Israel itself, or with nuclear proliferation of the entire Middle East. In light of the upcoming elections, it is especially important to note the exorbitant price that Israeli citizens pay (a quarter of whom live below the poverty line) for Israel’s choice to be a nuclear power, according to foreign sources. Those same sources claim Israel has Jericho missiles, tactical delivery systems, ballistic missile submarines and nuclear-armed fighter jets, as well as hundreds of nuclear bombs that continue to be developed.

Do nuclear weapons protect Israel? Is the investment worth it? These issues are never spoken about. Preventing the enemy from obtaining similar weapons is practically axiomatic in this country. According to the West, the Jews are allowed to have an unsupervised, unlimited nuclear arsenal with no environmental regulations. Think about the danger such an old nuclear reactor poses to the nearby city of Dimona. Is the reactor carcinogenic for its workers and the people who live in the area? Where does Israel bury its nuclear waste?

According to the West, Israel can have nuclear weapons because of the Holocaust, but the Iranians are dangerous because their previous leaders have called for the elimination of Israel. And here? Both the Right and the Left adopt this premise.

The West encourages Israel to arm itself with nuclear weapons; Germany sells us nuclear submarines; the United States sells us fighter jets. But are the Germans and the Americans aware that Israel’s arms industry, and the generals who control Israeli politics, are actually starving their citizens while they become rich? Are they even concerned by the sale such a dangerous weapon to a third world country such as Israel? Why is there no parity between Israel and Iran’s potential nuclear arsenal?

The Iranian people also suffer due to their leaders’ desire for the doomsday weapon, despite the societal costs that it brings about. Two years before the Arab Spring, the Iranian people tried, unsuccessfully, to revolt against the regime. Here is what Israeli social activist Barak Cohen told the Iranian people on Facebook, with the help of a Jewish-Iranian :
Netanyahu is heading to the United States in order to frighten the world over a nuclear Iran. We want to tell the Iranian people that as opposed to a prime minister who does not represent us, the people here are not in conflict with the Iranian people. We have terrible rulers who use war in order to harm our freedoms, equality and ability to live a decent life. We know that your regime is also terrible, and uses the same tools to harm your ability to live a decent life.

This is not a conflict between the Jewish people and the Iranian people. This is simply two forms of dictatorship that abuse you and us in order to continue ruling. The Jewish holiday of Purim is upon us, and there are Jews in Iran, and we want to say that with the help of God, who is one, just as in Purim our luck changed, we will defeat the dictatorship here, and you will defeat the dictatorship there. With the help of God, we will be able to visit Iran and you will be able to visit us here, and the walls will crumble!

Cohen’s message to the Iranians does not differentiate between Jews and Persians (unlike in Purim, there is no need to kill Haman). This is the same Jewish-Arab message that we sent in 2011 with our letter to the young people of the Arab World who were fighting for freedom. This message is the exact opposite of what the government is doing through its nuclear arsenal, its weapons and its societal abuse. This is the message we need to send to Washington, Iran and the Arab world. A message of social democracy that worries about its citizens, and does not invest everything it has in a doomsday weapon, which only weakens and endangers its own citizens.

originally posted by: Sremmos80But good thing we are not only talking US Intel here or you might have a point.

Well it certainly is convenient to assume that the current intel that you're describing is in fact reliable. The truth of the matter is you have no idea if it in fact is. So it's hard for you to make your point, when there is no solid evidence to prove it. So back at yuh Pal. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: Harte

Let's not forget the latest evidence. Iran's refusal to sign Obama's negotiated agreement. A very generous one limited to ten years and allowing them to retain the equipment necessary to develop weapons grade material.

They cite Obama's rudeness...

Hmm, perhaps, as you say, they are close enough to 'sprint to the finish line", develop their nukes and follow in N. Korea's footsteps. I.E. Now a nuclear power, they become empowered sufficiently to continue and expand their rhetoric and repression of their own citizens without fear of immediate consequences from outside powers.

After all, Obama will do nothing and it will be a good two years before an administration change in the U.S.. More than enough time...

Iran: Some people consider peace 'an existential threat'

London (CNN)Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his supporters are trying to create "an atmosphere of hysteria" and "fear-mongering," the Iranian foreign minister said Thursday.

"The only explanation that you can have here is that some people consider peace and stability as an existential threat," Javad Zarif told CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

Bingo. Netanyahu and Likud are the existential threat. Or a very big part of it.

Video at link.

a reply to: SheopleNation

You are using a completely unrelated point to try and disprove this one...
And it isn't only the US Intel there buddy, it is also the IAEA and mossad.
So throw out the us for all I care and you still have two others to go with

There's no nuclear power plants in Israel.

originally posted by: Sremmos80 And it isn't only the US Intel there buddy, it is also the IAEA and mossad.
So throw out the us for all I care and you still have two others to go with

I don't think that you appreciate my position clearly Sremmos. My focus is on all of the sources of this so called intel, cause none of them can prove exactly what the hell is going on inside of Iran. They claim that they know, on both sides, but I think the majority of the sources are clouded, and full of crap bro. I am not taking any side here, cause I have no history of supporting either here.

Listen, Think about what you and I were discussing earlier concerning WMD's in Iraq? That should be enough for you to not hold too much merit in what is coming out about Iran right now. It's all reckless speculation. Bull crap is a plague these days. A lot of mass disinformation and fear mongering.

But yeah, It's a lot of emotional backed assumptions, mixed in with the normal protocol of satellite surveillance, network hacking, life long relationships, bribes, agent spying, as well as double agent activities ect. Then we can throw in a few carpetbaggers wetting their beaks, while receiving a whole hell of a lot of back door hand jobs.

You and I may bump heads politically a lot, but my point here is, we both need to read between the lies concerning this subject. ~$heopleNation