The Failure of ATS

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: opethPA

I don't see a reason to care strongly one way or another that there might be a rogue planet, or why fire is fire. Our existence is pointless, & clinging to ideas & provable facts is pointless & delusional imo.

Ignorance is in the eye of the beholder & imo is merely a representation of which ideas you hold more sacred than others. I believe that holding any idea sacred is an effort in futility.

Well great ..you don't care about life...other people to do..
Everyone can be happy enjoying their flavor of the human condition.

That's incorrect. Assuming everyone can be happy with their flavor of the human condition is a projection of your dependence on the system.
I'm not happy, never have been & never will be, thus your assertion is wrong.

There are two realities, mine & everyone else's. Your antagonism of my views only reenforces this to me. We're conditioned to love life no matter how unbalanced, unfair, or downright ass backwards it is. Very few seem to be able to break this conditioning.

I think the site is great in a lot of ways. However, I have a number of times had threads deleted that I really felt were important topics that need to be discussed. That I put a lot of effort into, it just disappears. And I'm not saying there should be no moderation. Rather, we should remove some of the restrictions in the T&C...there are some very real, not 'way out there,' 'conspiracies' or at least flaws in our society, that we're simply not allowed to discuss...and that makes no sense, given the way the site presents itself.

And that's why ATS has failed. ATS claims to believe in denying ignorance, but ATS only believes in denying ignorance on their own terms.

There is some truth to this. It is a point that could be debate on one thread alone. I look at it like this this site is far better than facebook for many reasons so I choose to ignore the shortcomings associated with that.

And there's a ton of fluff: reptillians, aliens, UFOs, cryptozoology, new agism, etc. All of these topics can be blown completely out of the water with the application of Occam's Razor
Oh, so you do want to censor subjects. Got it. You're not actually for free speech, just the free speech you agree with. Good to know.

There are members who for whatever motive will go at lengths to troll ufo, alternative science, alternative history - basically anything that doesn't line up with mainstreamedtrom ideas. These people say there justification for this is science and use the old arguments like there are papers written that can be used to dismiss the Ops (theory) ideas. You ever ask them to link he papers the request either gets ignored and on the rare occassions they do the content is out of context and proves nothing but they didnt read or understand the paper.

I find and effective method to deal with them is demand they link the information so it can scrutinized. You see that turns the table on them no longer will posters be picking holes in the Op they will start picking holes in the paper, which according to the troller is the mainstream position. To win against trolls always work from a height of strength. This is why trolls never create threads cause they are the essentially highschool bully, they will only fight against a solitary figure in a group. Bu they its incredibly satisfying to whup the highschool bully. Do that when required and I find they leave me alone.

originally posted by: AthlonSavage

And that's why ATS has failed. ATS claims to believe in denying ignorance, but ATS only believes in denying ignorance on their own terms.

There is some truth to this. It is a point that could be debate on one thread alone. I look at it like this this site is far better than facebook for many reasons so I choose to ignore the shortcomings associated with that.

In some ways. However, there are topics that I can openly discuss on facebook, which is now allowed here...which again seems to contradict the general theme of ATS, deny ignorance and whatnot.

a reply to: TheJourney
Can you really "discuss" anything on facebook?

What were some of your topics that were removed?

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
a reply to: TheJourney
Can you really "discuss" anything on facebook?

What were some of your topics that were removed?

Well, the obvious example that jumps to mind, is the war on drugs and flaws in our societies perception of altering consciousness, and the whole context of drug use...these are very serious problems, that have far-reaching effects, that the majority of society has been duped into...time will change social perceptions, but this is a case of society being flat out wrong about some things, to the point where it will inevitably change, and here on ATS we're not allowed to discuss it, point out the flaws in the mainstream way of thinking...ATS you would think would be a place where forward thinking which goes against long held social ideas would be welcome, to help brig along the change...instead it is outright now allowed.

originally posted by: TheJourney
instead it is outright now allowed.

You haven't been paying attention. Much of that is now allowed

originally posted by: Eunuchorn
That's incorrect. Assuming everyone can be happy with their flavor of the human condition is a projection of your dependence on the system.
I'm not happy, never have been & never will be, thus your assertion is wrong.

There are two realities, mine & everyone else's. Your antagonism of my views only reenforces this to me. We're conditioned to love life no matter how unbalanced, unfair, or downright ass backwards it is. Very few seem to be able to break this conditioning.

I bet you are fun at funerals..

I know life is horrible, nothing worth living for, the man is holding us down and take the blue pill. You have experienced so much pain and suffering that you are just going to rock back and forth in the corner until your time in this Hell is over. Nothing anyone is going to say will change your bleak outlook (wish I had a couple of good Hellraiser quotes here) so best of luck on your journey.

As a side note I don't love life..It's got horrible things in it..It has horrible people in it which do terrible things to innocent people on a daily basis. Poor people do bad things, rich people do bad things as does everyone in between. I have witnessed , experienced and seen horrible things that were no better, worse or more acute then anyone else.

Life also has wonderful people and wonderful things in it. For some people it is worth fighting for.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Where did I write this. With the numbers I posted, you can make your own calculations. Maybe you see that there is a very good chance that it´s way more. Just compare the numbers and do a little math and you may see.
Before answering anything in the direction of greed, please read my other posts I have the feeling that you will write something along those lines if not. ...

He has very low stars and flags for a member more than 10 years?


stars 56 flags 53

originally posted by: Slayer

The Big One.

Who is "The Big One" ?

You must feel related to ATS other wise you would not come back to inform "it' of "its" short comeings.
Why is this important to you?
You could go some where else where your opinion is easily accepted, why try to "convert"?
Who is " The Big One" ?
WIS

Don't know ifs already been said because to be honest only read part of the first page .

But without a doubt slayer and I've been around a few years.. Personally you are my most respected member on this site..

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
He has very low stars and flags for a member more than 10 years?


stars 56 flags 53

Who are you talking about. . And to be honest who cares about stars and flags... They are just a false sense of security.

If You don't like the way ATS is,then GTFO.ATS is not here here to pamper your wants/needs...

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: TheJourney
instead it is outright now allowed.

You haven't been paying attention. Much of that is now allowed

I've been paying attention fine. Much of my personal experiences with this have been since the policy change. As I have been seeing the actual enforcement of the new policy, cannabis has been allowed to be discussed. Which is great, but that's really just keeping up with the mainstream majority opinion. Most Americans support legalization of cannabis now.

I did see this bit on that thread, as something which is still not allowed.
"information related to drug legalization"
So I'm curious about that.

I have still had multiple threads deleted since the new policy, and witnessed multiple others get shut down. I guess I'm still not 100% on the specifics of the policy, but as I've been seeing its enforcement: cannabis talk is allowed, which is great, but anything which is not strictly confined to cannabis gets shut down.

Cannabis is one thing, because of potential benefits and essential harmlessness. This is pretty mainstream now. Psychedelics are similar in that way actually, potentially beneficial and harmless, though this is not recognized by many at all. In fact, these drugs are often seen as being among the worst, similar to how cannabis was. And then there is an issue which is deeper than harmlessness and potential benefits, and that is individual freedom. In terms of actual enforcement, so far as I have seen and experienced, only my first two sentences, about cannabis, are allowed. If I try to discuss what I was getting at with the rest of this paragraph, it results in threads getting shut down.

It's simple really, avoid discussing your personal trips, journeys, and other forays into euphoria and I'll avoid discussing mine too.

Nobody comes here to read about that, there's thousands of sites that can be discussed at just not on this one.

It's not that hard to sort out, nor is it all that limiting.

sigh...

originally posted by: Springer
It's simple really, avoid discussing your personal trips, journeys, and other forays into euphoria and I'll avoid discussing mine too.

Nobody comes here to read about that, there's thousands of sites that can be discussed at just not on this one.

It's not that hard to sort out, nor is it all that limiting.

sigh...

It hasn't seemed that simple to me. I am pretty much positive I have had threads removed in which I did not discuss personal use of drugs.

So let me just ask moderation, point blank. So long as we don't discuss specific personal use, are we allowed to openly talk about false beliefs about certain drugs, misconceptions about altering consciousness itself, irrationality of its taboo and the resulting legal policies, and like topics? Well actually, I know for a fact that it censors out the names of non-cannabis drugs, so I can't mention specific drugs which people have mis-conceptions about. So there's that. But the term psychedelic would suffice, so long as that can be used without censorship. This is a class of drugs which is completely misunderstood, and false beliefs about them run rampant. It would technically be safer to be able to be more specific, but clearly the specifics get censored out, but psychedelic is a reasonable term for the class of drugs which it is important to dispel misunderstandings about.

If I can openly discuss what I've been getting at in this and my previous post, so long as I don't discuss personal use, I would be happy in that regard. I don't believe that has been my experience. But if that is now the policy, then fantastic.

a reply to: Springer

I am curious as to your stance against talking about Mary jane...
Do you personally hold it in the same light as other drugs considered illegal?
Or are you afraid ATS or its members will be viewed as a bunch of pot heads with no credibility?
There are plenty of conspiracies tied into drugs most of the worst tied to governments...
I just wonder what's the reason behind your stance?

My bad didn't look up first...
I am sure there are conspiracies surrounding trips as you say as well though, such as shared mass hallucinations induced by drugs...
I don't understand why threads can't be given a chance seeing as they can be closed what if they hold some worth for discussion?