9 things you think you know about Jesus that are probably wrong

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Update on that quote I used earlier. Here it is with the parts that might have been altered in brackets.

“About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man [if indeed one ought to call him a man.] For he was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. [He was the Christ.] When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. [On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvelous things about him.] And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.”

Source

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Huh?

I dont understand what you are saying. Could you clarify?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Why is the possibility that he may have been married, had children, be abhorrent to so many people?

Because a dude marrying and having kids is a very human thing to do, and they want to believe he is a divine entity.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

But even then he was here in human form. If he was a divine entity, what about the whole sacrifice thing? Can a divine entity suffer and die for us? If a divine entity doesn't really die?

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

In that case, they got the wrong guy.

Okay. You believe he is the Messiah. I get it. My point is that they did not.

originally posted by: tadaman

I dont understand what you are saying. Could you clarify?

I was clear enough so I shan't repeat myself.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

Because a dude marrying and having kids is a very human thing to do, and they want to believe he is a divine entity.

You saying that the divine can't have children?

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

Okay. You believe he is the Messiah. I get it. My point is that they did not.

Oh, they did.
 

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Then we "shant" understand each other. I thought I was perfectly clear as well.

a reply to: tadaman

No, I understand. You don't because you refuse to listen to anything other than what you've been spoon-fed.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

If he was a divine entity, what about the whole sacrifice thing? Can a divine entity suffer and die for us? If a divine entity doesn't really die?

If he was in fact god, and aware of that, then to me it doesn't really seem like some grand sacrifice so much as an end to a vacation. An end to his visit to Earth that as an omniscient being he would have known would occur. A trip he could have made again, as an omnipotent god, at any point afterwards up until now.

Not all Christians view Jesus Christ as god Himself though. Hell...not all Christians even agree not all Christians agree.

If he was the son of god then that would make him a demi-god. I imagine he would still suffer, physically and emotionally, but he'd have alleviation of that suffering in the knowledge he had eternal life with god.

I personally think he was a human man. I think he probably suffered greatly just as we do.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

You saying that the divine can't have children?

I don't believe in the divine. Obviously I understand the divine can according to your religion considering god fathered Jesus. Or fathered himself depending on your view.

Regardless, I don't think you're understanding the point I was making. That's fine.

Oh, they did.

Who did? We were discussing the people that wanted to kill / did kill him.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

I don't believe in the divine.

That was already abundantly clear, no need to clarify.

I don't think you're understanding the point I was making.

I actually have no idea whatsoever as to the point you're trying to make.

You believe he is the Messiah ... they did not

And you're basing that on what exactly?
 

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Why are you so aggressive? I simply asked you to clarify what you dont understand about my post. I asked so I could clarify. Apparently you thought I was being critical of you. That is impossible since we have not yet exchanged arguments for or against anything. We dont know what we are talking about. You refuse to elaborate on what you didnt understand in my post. You say you do understand but what you do or do not is a mystery to me because you do refuse to be more specific.

I was perfectly clear about my stance. How it appears "spoon fed" as you say is beyond me. It is not the main line version to say the least. You are not making sense.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

If he was the son of god then that would make him a demi-god. I imagine he would still suffer, physically and emotionally, but he'd have alleviation of that suffering in the knowledge he had eternal life with god.

I personally think he was a human man. I think he probably suffered greatly just as we do.

Now that...is possibly the most sense anybody has made for...

Wait, how long??

originally posted by: tadaman

We dont know what we are talking about.

I noticed that.

The problem I have is this relentless torrent of absolute nonsense which I, as a Christian, cannot and will not condone. I ain't being rude, but if you don't know anything about Christianity then don't go lambasting it like you have been. I'm not interested in tit-for-tat semantics.

a reply to: daaskapital

.. early Christianity, under Jesus and his brother James, was arguably a sect of Judaism itself (and not a separate religion with its own beliefs and practices, as Christianity currently is).

In my opinion, if a Christian truly wants to walk like Jesus and follow the teachings, they are going to have to convert to Judaism

It seems to me Jesus might agree.

Mathew 5:17-19 NIV

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Either you have no clue whatsoever as to what you're talking about or you're being outright insulting.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

I actually have no idea whatsoever as to the point you're trying to make.

Well that's probably because you picked a piece of what I said, in a post to someone else, and then went on a tangent.

I'm saying not everyone believed he was the Messiah. The people that wanted him dead did not. You said they did believe he was. You're arguing with me over that.

Now are things more clear?

The Bible alone talks about their disbelief in him being the Messiah. For one they didn't think he fulfilled their prophecies and therefore couldn't be one. Why do you think they were all upset to begin with? It's not because they thought he was the Messiah. If they believed that then why on Earth would they have wanted him dead? He likely had a relatively small following of believers at that time. Obviously not all the Jewish people disbelieved... hence twelve apostles and what not.

In America, we have the Constitutional right to our religious beliefs as well as to express our thoughts.

That doesn't mean that no one else (with the same right to hold or not to hold any given religious beliefs) is not going to tell us what they think in an open or public forum.

Stating that there are factual problems with the assertions, history, philosophy, et. al. of Christianity is not, automatically, an attack on an individual Christian.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Either you have no clue whatsoever as to what you're talking about or you're being outright insulting.

By posting a Biblical verse verbatim?

Yes I included my opinion that it might corroborate daaskapital's sentiment.

Can you try and be constructive with your criticism? Instead of just saying things like you have no clue what I am saying or that I have no clue myself what I am saying.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Why do you think they were all upset to begin with? It's not because they thought he was the Messiah. If they believed that then why on Earth would they have wanted him dead?

That's the big question, isn't it?

In the meanwhile; I go to the shop, get followed by some spook who must also have a problem with what I've been saying here...and I have to come back to this garbage.