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originally posted by: BlueMule
Hey Vig. Suppose they are true. Would that destroy your faith, or would that open your faith to the dimension of esoteric metaphor and mysticism that waits for you under the exoteric surface?
If so, how has this taken 2,000 years?
originally posted by: BlueMule
Assuming those 9 items are true, why would God permit the Bible to lead us to a mistaken idea of Jesus?
why would God permit the Bible to lead us to a mistaken idea of Jesus?
originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
Here is a quote from the first century Roman historian Tacitus:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".
This was in reference to a terrible fire that consumed much of Rome in 64 AD that Nero blamed on the Christians. Tacitus was a child when this fire occurred. In addition to whatever sources he later had at his disposal, he no doubt heard about, as I am sure most Romans had, Nero's thoughts concerning Christians and that fire. He was also not someone who would have motive for fabricating Christus and the Christians, unlike the Gospel authors.
The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom is a 2013 book by Candida Moss, a professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame. Moss's thesis is that the traditional idea of the "Age of Martyrdom", when Christians suffered persecution from the Roman authorities and lived in fear of being thrown to the lions, is largely fictional. There was never sustained, targeted persecution of Christians by Imperial Roman authorities. Official persecution of Christians by order of the Roman Emperor lasted for at most twelve years of the first three hundred of the Church's history. Most of the stories of individual martyrs are pure invention, and even the oldest and most historically accurate stories of martyrs and their sufferings have been altered and re-written by later editors, so that it is impossible to know for sure what any of the martyrs actually thought, did or said.
It's very unlikely that Tacitus actually wrote this.
It's extremely unlikely there were more than a few Christians in Rome at the time (if there were any).
originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: ~Lucidity
Maybe the real thing the Vatican is guarding is how they're the absolute apostate church in this world filled with evil and liars? The Vatican being taken as a serious source on ANYTHING to do with Jesus is utterly laughable. Utterly. They're liars and false prophets, especially their pope with his assumed authority.
They're the Pagan sect of true Christians and most Christians know this. They worship idols and hoard wealth, if people can't see them as the blatant enemy of Christians everywhere, that's a sin in itself.