9 things you think you know about Jesus that are probably wrong

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Hey Vig. Do I have to beat the crap out of you to get an answer to my question?

👣

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

That was an awesome post. You aren't alone in your view.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Which JESUS ? J-ESUS, SERAPIS or the actual JESUS of Nazareth ?

Oh, this question?

originally posted by: BlueMule

Hey Vig. Suppose they are true. Would that destroy your faith, or would that open your faith to the dimension of esoteric metaphor and mysticism that waits for you under the exoteric surface?

Destroy my faith? Not likely. My faith is in God. I think we might have a case of mistaken identity. If so, how has this taken 2,000 years?

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Yes, that question dammit

Assuming those 9 items are true, why would God permit the Bible to lead us to a mistaken idea of Jesus?

👣

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

If so, how has this taken 2,000 years?

I'll run out for the pass on this one: (heh - sorry, American football talk - means, I'll try to catch it)

Because humans don't change very fast, or very often. It's an incremental process - to us it is eons - in the bigger picture, it is an eye-twitch. Some of us have eye-twitches.

From time to time.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Which JESUS ? J-ESUS, SERAPIS or the actual JESUS of Nazareth ?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

Which JESUS ? J-ESUS, SERAPIS or the actual JESUS of Nazareth ?

Can someone answer why in the last 3 months or so, ATS is one of the most sluggish site, now I see a triplicate post on one of my replies, whoever you have hosting is terrible or is it bad php?

Mods please delete the two duplicate posts please?

originally posted by: BlueMule
Assuming those 9 items are true, why would God permit the Bible to lead us to a mistaken idea of Jesus?

Either it's a test or he's at war.

Oh, here's some etymology...

Isaac - "he will laugh"
Ishmael - "the fulfilment of a divine promise resulting from prayer being heard"

Really? Tells it's own story, right?

So what's this here, Isaac's sacrificial stone? Stone of Scone

a reply to: BlueMule

Assuming those 9 items are true

Wait....sorry, guys.

You mean that the nine items in the article are true (short hair, married, yada yada), right?

Not that the people who believe otherwise are correct. Right?

a reply to: BlueMule

why would God permit the Bible to lead us to a mistaken idea of Jesus?

God apparently hasn’t always favored good communication:

Genesis 11:1-9 NIV
"11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.”

I’d say his motives are rather unclear. He can be temperamental too. His reading of my blasphemous post my just cause another genocidal flood. Who knows. God knows.

a reply to: phinubian

They may be experiencing some turbulence, phin, I don't know. My post shows up italicized from corner to corner for no apparent reason. Either that, or someone's messing with us. Something.

lol

I choose turbulence in the fiber.
Or the satellites. Whatever.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy

Here is a quote from the first century Roman historian Tacitus:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind".

This was in reference to a terrible fire that consumed much of Rome in 64 AD that Nero blamed on the Christians. Tacitus was a child when this fire occurred. In addition to whatever sources he later had at his disposal, he no doubt heard about, as I am sure most Romans had, Nero's thoughts concerning Christians and that fire. He was also not someone who would have motive for fabricating Christus and the Christians, unlike the Gospel authors.

It's very unlikely that Tacitus actually wrote exactly this (probably altered by Christian scribes) and while the claim "1st century historian" is essentially true, it also overlooks the fact that this was written 115-120 CE (2nd century). It's extremely unlikely there were more than a few Christians in Rome at the time (if there were any). Conspicuously, no one mentions it until the 5th century after it had already appeared almost word for word in the work of an early 5th century Christian writer. One who was largely responsible for all sorts of myths (that we know aren't true) regarding Nero and said fire.

It's far more likely that later Christians laid claim to what was really Jewish persecution. The "Christian persecution" meme, is mostly fiction.

The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom is a 2013 book by Candida Moss, a professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame. Moss's thesis is that the traditional idea of the "Age of Martyrdom", when Christians suffered persecution from the Roman authorities and lived in fear of being thrown to the lions, is largely fictional. There was never sustained, targeted persecution of Christians by Imperial Roman authorities. Official persecution of Christians by order of the Roman Emperor lasted for at most twelve years of the first three hundred of the Church's history. Most of the stories of individual martyrs are pure invention, and even the oldest and most historically accurate stories of martyrs and their sufferings have been altered and re-written by later editors, so that it is impossible to know for sure what any of the martyrs actually thought, did or said.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

His reading of my blasphemous post my just cause another genocidal flood. Who knows. God knows.

Wow. That would be WAY worse than my post and avatar text showing up in italics.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Totally ludicrous.

Ideally, things like this will open fundamentalists up to the shared spiritual heritage of mankind; to the esoteric dimension of theology that runs through world religion and myth. Rather than robbing them of faith or making them resort to ridiculous stretches.

👣

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

It's very unlikely that Tacitus actually wrote this.

Can you elaborate on your reasoning here?

It's extremely unlikely there were more than a few Christians in Rome at the time (if there were any).

From what I read there were a good amount of Romans that believed Nero himself set the fire. Yet the absence of Christians in Rome, or their innocence, doesn't negate what is written. Which is mention of Christ, and Christians, and his execution by Pontius Pilate.

*Edit: unless of course he didn't write it.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BlueMule
You mean that the nine items in the article are true (short hair, married, yada yada), right?

Not all of them. I think somebody mentioned 5'8" height, that's correct.

Abrahamic Covenant

يا كنعان، أوه عماليق! الله يسمع منكم!
أولا المولود من الآب! الله يسمع منكم!
إسماعيل هنا، والاستماع إسماعيل! يا الله!

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

which see:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Maybe the real thing the Vatican is guarding is how they're the absolute apostate church in this world filled with evil and liars? The Vatican being taken as a serious source on ANYTHING to do with Jesus is utterly laughable. Utterly. They're liars and false prophets, especially their pope with his assumed authority.

They're the Pagan sect of true Christians and most Christians know this. They worship idols and hoard wealth, if people can't see them as the blatant enemy of Christians everywhere, that's a sin in itself.

Wow, nice ignorant bashing of millions of believers in Jesus Christ. How Christian of you, friend.