Boris Nemtsov (Putin Critic) killed in the center of Moscow

a reply to: ParasuvO

It is getting beyond ridiculous now. If there was an eclipse tomorrow, the headlines would be "Putin Steals The Sun!!".

He was a liar and a traitor but didn't deserve that fate

Had a lot of death threats on the social media sites he used so I'm guessing his pro Ukraine leaning annoyed the hell out of a majority of Russians

Had a 23 year old Ukrainian model GF,didn't think with his mind

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Had a 23 year old Ukrainian model GF,didn't think with his mind

He was a known womanizer and a playboy. This is one of the reasons I couldn't identify him with serious politician.
At least he was killed during another "romantic walk" down the Moscow street.

I searched some info about him in and found this quote

John says:
January 18, 2011 at 8:42 pm
The only time I met Boris Nemtsov he was drunk. It was his birthday and he had persuaded his publisher to foot the bill for a junket in a Moscow dance-club/ restaurant to launch a book under his by line. As he swilled down the cognac he told me he was so pleased to have his three ex-wives, his children and his current mistress all celebrating with him.
At one point a teenage girl came up to us and joined the table. I thought it was a daughter. It was the mistress!
This is the buffoon that would have the Russians believe he is a viable alternative to Putin?
Let’s get real.
With a bit of luck he had a sober two weeks in jail. His liver should be grateful.
marknesop.wordpress.com...

Ironically, another 23 years old model become witnesses of his murder.

a reply to: canucks555

I don't know who is responsible but the Putin Lovers should really give their heads a shake when they spout off about how "cool" Vlad is compared to our politicians in the West.

Putin has to go. He and those who support this kind of "politics" disgust me.

Oh yeah?

So...you open by claiming you 'don't know who's responsible', but then immediately go for the throat of Putin and his admirers eh?

Perfectly unbiased thread then...obviously.

Tell me this; Nemtsov, aka 'Washington's Man in Moscow', was considered to be a prominent opposition politician to Putin right?

HOW then does one become a prominent and vocal politician in opposition to the well established and entrenched Putin, who has an approval rating among Russians of 85%?

How? Luck?

If Putin is such a tyrant, as you and other members of the anti-Putin mouthpiece gang here are trying to insinuate...there would be no 'Washington's Man in Moscow' to begin with, there simply would never be a vocal, uncontrollable opposition able to gain enough traction to become a threat in the first place, as they would surely all be dead and buried in a ditch years ago...so your startlingly contrary and clearly agenda driven thread with it's particularly anti-Putin theme...doesn't hold water. In fact, it's pouring out.

You can't have it both ways. Either Putin, as you suggest is capable of being a cold, calculating murderer who bumps off political opponents willy-nilly before a breakfast of lightly poached new born babies...or as we have seen, does nothing to prevent or hinder the rise in prominence of politicians who attack him daily, well, nothing murderous at any rate..before and after breakfast. (he probably doesn't eat lightly poached new born babies for breakfast either..in case you were thinking of using that against him too)

The fact Nemtsov is even being discussed and is even a figure anyone has ever heard of, plainly and quite simply shows beyond reasonable doubt, Putin in fact is not the hit man leader you suggest and wish the readers to believe he is, if that was so, Nemtsov would never have been allowed to mouth off against Putin in the first place, to any real degree.

You don't find it the least bit coincidental that this happens now?

Now the West is sulking about Russia and China's economically massive energy deals that are directly threatening the USA energy hegemony?

Now the West is continually being frustrated by both Russia and China in it's illegal imperialistic march across the Middle East?

Now the West has been chastised and halted by Russia and China over the Western plans of military and political ambitions of dominance in Syria and Iran?

Now that the West's 'cut their own noses off to spite their face' pathetic sanctions metered out to Russia have and will continue to fail miserably, only really harming Europe and as a knock on effect, the USA themselves, all because of a deliberate and planned policy of the destabilisation of a Russian border country, Ukraine, a destabilisation that the West themselves are directly responsible for creating to use as a club to beat Putin about the head with.

Putin is not responsible for Nemtsov, if he were, it's a certainty hardly anyone in the West outside of intelligence agencies would ever have heard the name Nemtsov, as he would have been dead a very long time ago.

Who is responsible then?

The West of course. Another pathetic smear campaign orchestrated by CIA, to screw with Putin and attempt to circumvent yet another democratic country and it's political process and remove those in power the West does not get to or is able to control as a puppet licking it's boots.

A quick tip for you OP...if you want your anti-Putin threads to be effective in future, at least try to be logical - connect the obvious dots in the plot line.

And don't..repeat do not claim to be impartial and without knowledge of who is guilty in your opening line, and then allow the very next line of text you type to blatantly betray that impartiality to be an obvious and complete lie, while you attack Putin and those who support him, without either common sense or logic or anything approaching evidence of anything except a smear campaign orchestrated by your own government's out of control, running amok CIA.

People who like Putin make you sick? Well, people who will seemingly sell their own grandmother, or sell out, lie to and betray their own countrymen for a fleeting chance at propaganda and the opportunity for a brief moment of political gain are what make me sick mate.

Simply...the CIA murdered Nemtsov to pin it on Putin, and you are helping and perpetuating the lie...how does being a puppet of the CIA make you feel, all warm and fuzzy or filthy and ashamed?

He wasn't a popular politician either with his party getting less than the 5% required to have seats in their parliament in 2003 and his last political endeavour in Sochi resulted in him receiving a terrible 14% of the vote

He was hit 4 times and 7 shots were fired if witness statements are believable,not sure if this was even a contract killing

Looks like he was set up but by whom?

Well he is not the first and probably won't be the last.

This is what happens in Russia if you don't say nice things about Putin, your killed.

Check out this website, its lists all of the assassinations suspected of having putins involvement.

larussophobe.wordpress.com...

a reply to: MysterX

You talk about impartiality yet you blame the west and the CIA- impartiality doesn't work like that. Don't lecture someone on impartiality unless you are willing to follow suit.

An impartial person would know that the CIA AND the KGB have dipped their wicks into foreign affairs and neither side can openly admit that they played a part-Soviet spies were in Washington and Gary Powers was shot down over Russia- spying is a two way street.

Your beliefs are your own but the truth is that the opposition leader was shot before he could stage an anti Putin protest. Those are the facts.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
I think the FSB would probably be a little more discreet with their assassinations.

Agreed. This is likely what happens when you are worth more dead than alive to the CIA. Just ask the poor saps who got sniped on the Maiden.

FSB isn't so stupid to use bullets. A car bumper does the job just fine. And why would they be so stupid to make it so dramatically in the open?

Bullets further develop the western agenda.

Riddle me this, how was Wikipedia able to put up the obviously western take on It all, oh so instantly?

I'm no Putin defender, as I hate all politicians equally. But this just doesn't make sense. That said, Putin taking over the investigation himself doesn't exactly help him look innocent.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: neutraldave

And let's be fair. When you control the media your approval rating doesn't matter. You can tell tell the people you have a 100% approval rating and a lot of populace will go along with it. They don't want to feel left out of the majority.

And where do you find unbiased main stream media on this planet that is not either state propaganda or owned by a media cartel who is pushing an agenda? Do you really think the western media with Reuters and AP is unbiased? You might get the news you want to your flavor in divide and conquer style but unbiased objective news?

That's why most people use a variety of sources from various countries, along with people reporting from the scene.
This is far better than simply trusting RT.

Like it or not, we can only make assesments about what is real and what is BS based on the information we can get, so we either have to deal with what the media delivers or give up everything entirely and just spend forever in a constant loop of discrediting each others news sources.

This is what it comes down to so often on ATS, a bit**y little tit-for-tat "my source is better than your source" argument where nothing is ever resolved.

Blogs and YouTube videos are not "proof". Trusting only RT and claiming everything else is propaganda is not sensible. Believing only one US media outlet is stupid. Trusting only the BBC is nonsense.

Take everything together to form a picture of reality, or you may as well just give up on ATS and not bother ever discussing politics or global issues ever again.

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Rocker2013

Trying to twist my words so you can make them sound like I am pro-Russian and against Democracy is kind of rude. I am not against democracy nor am I pro-Russian.

I didn't twist your words. You said you had no sympathy for him because he should have known how dangerous it is to be in opposition to Putin.
This is the same as saying you think political opposition is wrong. This is a cornerstone of democracy.

Maybe you presented your point incorrectly, but I didn't twist anything, you stated in that post that you had no sympathy for him because he had the audacity to challenge the political system.

Nemtsov was shot within sight of St Basil's Cathedral and the Kremlin

The location and the resulting media pictures are no coincidence! Somebody is sending a message!



Whoever did this wants the whole world to see that this happened really close to the very centre of power in a suspiciously picturesque, immediately recognizable and meaningful location.

Between Putin, the U.S. secret services, Banksters and other players I have difficulties making out any "good" guys. I think they are all different shades of bad, "grey" at best.

Personally I feel it more likely that somebody "not Putin" is behind this. It just seems a bit too obvious and convenient for further demonising him. Either way this does not bode well...

originally posted by: Laxus
You say Putin took control of the investigation thus he is guilty , If Putin had remained silent and did not comment much, You would have said he is suspiciously quiet so the blame doesnt fall on him.

Wrong.

I would have said that the chances of a fair and unbiased investigation were slim, but there would have been more faith in that than there currently is with Putin taking control of the investigation. There are people with various political views throughout the rank and file of Russian police and government, Putin taking control of the investigation only reduces the chances of a fair and unbiased investigation.

I'm sorry, but an intelligent person cannot possibly claim that Putin taking control of this is anything other than suspicious. There is NO NEED for him to do so, and the fact that he has only makes him look more suspicious.

The man is not an idiot, he knows how many of his own people view him, and he knows how the outside world views him. He would know that taking control of this investigation would only fuel the opinion that he organized it and is now attempting to control what is done and how information is processed and released.

This increased suspicion can only increase the distrust in his own country, potentially bolstering the opposition even more, and making more of a martyr out of Nemtsov.

Putin is not stupid enough to take control and increase this suspicion, unless he felt he had no choice.

That is the point here. Putin could have made a statement and allowed the Police and investigative services to do their job without Kremlin meddling, not increasing the suspicion on him.
Instead he has taken personal leadership of the investigation and only increased the suspicion that he was involved and is now attempting to control it.

To ANY sane and intelligent person, this can only place more suspicion on Putin and the Kremlin, and it suggests that he knows something went wrong. It seems that he had no choice but to take control of this, even though it makes him look even more guilty.

A leader with nothing to hide would NOT have made this move.

its funny that anyone would think putin would actually gain something for having this guy killed.

Okay, so here are the things suggesting Putin may have had a hand in this murder...

1. Nemtsov was highly critical of Putin.
Mentsov is of course not the only Putin critic to turn up dead. There have been several others over the last fifteen years all killed after making anti-Putin statements and challenging his leadership. And yes, some of these have been just as blatant as this murder. Suggesting this is "too obvious" is clearly a nonsense when you know that Sergey Yushenkov was gunned down in Moscow, Forbes Magazine editor Paul Klebnikov was gunned down in Moscow 2004, and that Alexander Litvinenko was murdered with Polonium in London in 2006. Stop with the nonsense about this being "too obvious", Litvinenko was murdered by the Russian state, this was made clear, and it was done blatantly to send a message.

2. Nemtsov supposedly had evidence of Russian forces in Ukraine (unproven)
This has been suggested several times out there, and there are also suggestions that the woman he was walking with was Ukrainian. We know there have been suggestions in the last week that the Kremlin had an active plan of invasion through proxy groups. It's plausible that Nemtsov had gained some information from the families of soldiers, or from returning soldiers themselves. If he planned to make a speech at the protest on Sunday, this could have been done to prevent that from happening. It's also likely that the very public nature of this murder could send a threatening message to others in possession of such information.

3. The protest
Nemtsov was highly active in the planning and and preparation for a very rare anti-Putin protest on Sunday, a protest which has now been canceled. No one knows how popular this protest would have been, but we do know that the "approval rating" of Putin in Russia is likely to be BS. In a country where the media is so tightly controlled, there can be little faith in any approval rating.

4. The investigation
No matter how anyone looks at this, no one can claim that it's perfectly fine to see Putin taking personal control of the investigation. This is simply not acceptable and not conducive to a fair and unbiased investigation. This is an own-goal and Putin would know that. It's politically stupid to take this step and increase the distrust and suspicion, which can only mean that he has something to hide. There is absolutely no way an innocent leader would take this step, and the only reason a guilty one would is if they desperately had something to hide.

5. Nemtsov was outspoken specifically about Ukraine
It's no secret that Nemtsov was vocally and actively against Russian involvement in Ukraine. This alone, with the support he seems to have had, is reason to suspect the Kremlin. We are not deluded enough to think that a person can get away with this kind of speech and political opinion inside Russia, not when you have young women being arrested and imprisoned for nothing more than a five minute protest in the street with an audience of maybe 50 people. If the Russian state abuses and imprisons young people just for expressing a political opinion in public, it should not be any surprise to see a politician being murdered by the state when gathering thousands of citizens under a cause like this. If Putin had not spent the last ten years attempting to destroy all political thought against him and the Kremlin, maybe no one would have reason to be suspicious?

Now, by all means, please offer your own points as to why you think the CIA or anyone else would do this. What does anyone else gain and lose, who has motives, and who has the ability. Lets be properly analytical about this rather than the nonsense we've seen in every other thread.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

This has to be one of the stupidest threads on this board.

Why because it doesn't paint your boy Putin to be a hero?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

its funny that anyone would think putin would actually gain something for having this guy killed.

Why this man is a serious threat to Putin, and his running for the presidency again. As soon as Putin loses the control he has the Russian people see the world as it should be seen...

Without the Putin filters on.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
its funny that anyone would think putin would actually gain something for having this guy killed.

It's funnier that you think no one can take ten minutes to look through your posts and see the same thing a thousand times.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Laxus

If it was actually FSB, they would not have done it this way for sure, it would have been a car crash, heart attack , etc...this brings way too much attention and munition for the Western World to play with propaganda wise. He wasn`t even a threat to Putin.

This has to be one of the stupidest threads on this board.

This is the most ignorant comment in this thread.

The FSB killed Litvinenko in London with the rarest material possible, something only a state government could acquire. A material so expensive and hard to get no assassin would consider using it. The clear evidence is that the Russian government uses the method of killing to show off their work. Killing Nemtsov within view of the Kremlin is a message to the Russian opposition.

a reply to: kitzik

He was a known womanizer and a playboy.

And so are many politicians...wonder why Putin divorced his aging wife for a young Russian gymnast?

And I bet you think Putin is a serious politician, so what's the difference?

At least he was killed during another "romantic walk" down the Moscow street

And you know this how?

And someone being drunk in Russia imagine that?

smells fishy