"US DoD have confirmed the UFO phenomenon is real"

originally posted by: tetra50
No offense intended to Mr. Burroughs, but I would certainly be interested in his family genealogy, and there is something to this in terms of UFO experiencers, as well. See my own recent thread, or google yourself, the Burroughs Corporation, and its militaristic linkages…..

If he was any significant relation to the Burroughs Corporation I hardly think that he'd have had to have gone cap in hand to the VA to get the treatment that he needed, would he?

The Burroughs Corp were involved in developing the on board computing systems for the ATB Project, so they are a contender in the Rendlesham situation with the B-2 Spirit ticking many of the boxes.

I don't think that they zapped one of their own in some ill conceived double-bluff or comic book experiment to see if he would mutate super powers, fun idea though...but Burroughs is a common name, and coincidences, occasionally, just are coincidences.

Oooh, I know a bit about reentry vehicles and Chevaline. Lemme know if you need to know anything. I don't see them doing any experiments like that outside the facilities that exist in the continental US tho.

Bybyots; please feed me some good hints. I've run into a funk and I need something to chase after.

a reply to: Anaana

LTA?

Lighter Than Air.

PC's Working Paper #6 is called "Exotic technologies" and is subtitled "UAPs as Propelled Vehicles". The author is trying to imagine what could perform as witnesses describe and so is culling from everything they can find about exotic aviation technology to try and paint a picture of what the UAPs might be if made by man.

The "thin, silicon-carbide based materials" would be the skin. The suggestion that the skin could act as a microwave-reflective material probably refers to the author surmising that the skin might function as a rectennae (receive/transmit) for microwave energy, but, he also mentions an "airspike". Within the context of a microwave rectenna and things that fly, an airspike would be part of, I guess what would be called "flight enhancement", as it works to channel energy that creates a plasma-cone that deflects air.

So, behaving as a rectenna, the thing would be receiving and transmitting radio energy, possibly as power for the thing's systems and for moving data. I suppose, based on my limited understanding of all of this that the energy could be transmitted at the contraption as a "broadband" transmission, and that in there somewhere were some highly energetic microwaves.

Buut, I'm not sure how much "exoticness", at least in terms of flight, that we need to bring to bear on what Burroughs-and-crew encountered; it seems like the thing was slow, sluggish and almost broken somehow.

a reply to: Bybyots

Lighter than Air, obviously!

So, like Solar Sails?

What data do you suppose it to be moving?

As far as the reports indicating a sluggish behaviour...hmmm?

Do you think that the witness statements provide a true record of what happened? I don't, personally, which is not to say I think that they are lying, but one way or another, I'm not weighing them as reliable shall we say.

a reply to: Anaana

Yeah, but it would be like the whole skin of the contraption would be the sail, and instead of the sun the energy would have to come from terrifyingly powerful microwave transmitters, at least it would have between 1997 and 2000 when the paper was written up. That would be some 15 years after Rendlesham. I keep bringing up the dates because I think that it is important to remember how far we have come and how fast.

What data do you suppose it to be moving?

Control data. Feedback and control.

As far as the reports indicating a sluggish behaviour...hmmm?

That's just me trippin' out on the story second hand. It didn't "sound" very nimble to me.

Do you think that the witness statements provide a true record of what happened?

No, but I don't think that the witnesses can help it. The stories produced by the witnesses would be the product of the contraption's processes.


-UAPoUKADR Vol 2_B

a reply to: Bybyots

I am having enormous fun exploring the incestuousness of the technological side of things, it's #ed up even beyond my imaginings. It's just like with the JFK assassination, all roads eventually lead to Lockheed Martin

So presumably this is a weapon of some kind...I can't think of it serving any other purpose that isn't already more efficently developed elsewhere...no I don't get what the point of such a thing would be...do they have any suggestions of that?

a reply to: Anaana

Magonia as imagined by Project Condign:

-UAPoUKADR Vol 2_B

Wow, I am a little stunned that you seem to have come to the same conclusion that I have: they don't seem very useful, do they?

They only seem useful as a sort of "Paradigm Shift Vehicle" (PSV) ala Forgottenlanguages.

But, since you brought up the Actively Steered Arrays, they would be really good for that as well because they would basically function as giant powerful wifi cannons that could be used to monitor and secure municipal infrastructure.

originally posted by: Bybyots
But, since you brought up the Actively Steered Arrays, they would be really good for that as well because they would basically function as giant powerful wifi cannons that could be used to monitor and secure municipal infrastructure.

Of course there is only a few, key, places in the world that they'd need to do that. Everywhere else, like where you are, and I am, Japan and the Spanish speaking world (to name but a few examples) they have no need to do any such thing, since 'they' ate up every single company that built the infrastructures.

originally posted by: Bybyots
No, but I don't think that the witnesses can help it. The stories produced by the witnesses would be the product of the contraption's processes.

-UAPoUKADR Vol 2_B

I don't think that the witnesses can help it either.

These Project Condign people, they're proposing that such a contraption is being intentionally used to scramble perceptions?

Are you familiar with Stafford Beer and the heuristic usage of the Purpose of a System is What it Does (POSIWID)? It is particularly useful in looking at little understood, complex, messy situations as a means of discerning the boundaries of the systems that comprise that situation.

You mentioned in earlier an post the absence of some posters whose opinions you have come to value on these topics. I noticed that a thread a couple of days ago on the possible dangers to health of low level exposure to electromagnetism, partially, and dismissively drew their attention, and have come to agree with you that their absence is notable given their posting history and obvious depth of knowledge.

I don't think that the purpose of the 'system' that hurt Burroughs was to hurt him, or to scramble the brains of those caught in 'it's' blast, but that certainly appears to be what it does, as an unintended consequence.

This is all fascinating stuff however, it leaves us with a huge problem with relation to the overall time frames of the reporting of UFOs and if it were true it was "ours" and there's no overriding reason to assume it was American in its' origin, then we are talking about the greatest financial swindle/conspiracy ever?

If we accept that in 1980, there was such a technological capability then it really does beg the question of why umpteen tax dollars were in effect, totally wasted on the development of the "stealth programme" when they already had a technology that far surpassed that that was introduced and furthermore they had had that technology for at least three decades? As Conan Doyle via the vehicle of Sherlock Homes once commented, "Military secrets are the most fleeting of all". Korea, the Cold War, Vietnam we are to believe that the military held back time and time again from using this technology to win a war inside a couple of weeks? If that's true then that by default, means it was a complete con and thousands of people lost their lives for no good reason and zero reason in strategic terms simply to keep a secret that has, still to this day, not been used for anything more than convoluted parlour games and tricks?

OK, so if we then extrapolate further then, we have accept as fact that, there is a hidden layer of government that is above the military top brass, the security services and any form of legislative control with a continuity stretching back over a century that, not one person has ever managed to find one single shred of credible evidence to show it exists? Lord Hill-Norton has been mentioned in this thread, now there's a person was about as high in structure of Western defence as one can climb and he was, as far as I understand it, firmly in the "UFOs are demons" camp. Or, are we suggesting Hill-Norton's whole stance was mere obfuscation in order to take us away from the real answer? If that is so, why would even comment let alone draw more attention to the subject? If he was not party to the reality of the technology we've owned for a century or so, just who is?

Who is profiting from all this and who could have a strategy that spans over a century and still seemingly, no end game, no great pay off in sight? Where did the genius minds that created this technology come from and where did they go? No-one noticed all these prodigies disappearing? For a century, no-one's family thought it strange they simply vanished or seemingly never did a single productive thing with their intellects? No-one cracked under the sheer weight of the "secret" they were party to and told someone else?

Where does that leave the likes of Bob Lazar and Edgar Fouche? Are they deliberately being sued to draw attention to something someone doesn't want us to know about in order to achieve some sort of global meme of denial? If you have a craft that can alter people's perceptions in a manner you so choose, why would ever need to bother? If you have a craft that can stimulate exactly the same sort of brain activity that causes people to have religious experiences then, why are we wasting billions of dollars on a facile "war against terror" when all you need to do, is target certain people and "make them" believe something different to that they currently believe in?

That's one mother of a conspiracy to manage to keep going for so long and let's be honest, it is as "out there" as anything even the most radical of theorists has come up with? "Hey, thing is, we didn't really want to become entangled with the whole World War 2 thing, so we just buzzed both sides aircraft from the Pacific to the Western front because it, both amused us and well simply that, we could"?

"Oh yes and of course, another thing we did was t map out in detail, all those places in the world where there is often a history of "weird stuff" stretching back millennia and concentrate many of our operations in those areas even though, most people would never make the connection?

I can see how attractive the basic concept of all this might be however, the detail? Come on, the moment you start trying to justify it surely, any sort of logic simply flies straight out of the window, pulls a 90 degree turn and accelerates off at 5000 mph without creating a sonic boom?

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Anaana

Yeah, but it would be like the whole skin of the contraption would be the sail, and instead of the sun the energy would have to come from terrifyingly powerful microwave transmitters, at least it would have between 1997 and 2000 when the paper was written up. That would be some 15 years after Rendlesham. I keep bringing up the dates because I think that it is important to remember how far we have come and how fast.

Wouldn't need the sail effect in an atmosphere, thats where beamed power and MHD would come into play.

originally posted by: FireMoon
This is all fascinating stuff however, it leaves us with a huge problem with relation to the overall time frames of the reporting of UFOs and if it were true it was "ours" and there's no overriding reason to assume it was American in its' origin, then we are talking about the greatest financial swindle/conspiracy ever?

Indeed. I don't buy the secret space program angle. Its not just Norton-Hill, a whole bunch of Brits were into the Demonic/Keel school. John Alexander is over here - what do you think 'PSP' is a buzzword for? :p

The wormhole angle is the one I'm pulling for imho.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Anaana

Larry Warren's description and drawings do bear resemblance to those pictures. We also have to remember that he was in the forest (unless he is completely lying about the whole story) at the same time Colonel Halt's small posse was stomping around on the final (3rd) night of events.

Now I don't know if you are aware but the 67th ARRS Apollo Recovery Team were still based at Woodbridge in 1980 and a replica "boilerplate" of the Apollo command capsule was kept on site for practice missions (yep even though the Apollo program had ended 8 years before).

There was a theory about this all being a prank from the 67th ARRS that went wrong.

I've already covered that in the lower part of this post here. . It also explains why I don't think the theory stands up.


Every time you turn up something that looks plausible you are faced with dead ends or then also trying to fit in other parts of the story that simply won't fit easily. Even uber-sceptic Ian Ridpath doesn't try to explain Larry Warren's story and cherry picks the bits of it to fit what has now become known as the lighthouse theory.

All I can say is welcome to "Rendlesham".

Hi mirageman and Anaana, I think that regarding your discussion about how the craft looked or what it could have been that Larry is saying he saw on Capel green it could be very helpful to read also this interview from Adrian Bustinza which he had with Larry Fawcett.
In there is Adrian describing what he saw and experienced regarding that craft.
I personally believe that what Adrian describes there is beside some differences the one and the same experience as Larry's.
If Larry would not have been there as is claimed and believed by others, how on earth could he have known so many things in such a great detail which are confirmed by Adrian?

www.therendleshamforestincident.com...

a reply to: spacevisitor

Hello spacevisitor, and thank you for that.

Do you know what I most like about this case? The totally unapologetic lack of consistency and with it, such detailed areas of inconsistency. It's an odd one, but for me, it lends credibility.

Bustinza's account, painstakingly extracted from him by Fawcett, while structurally comparable to Warren's differs drastically in key areas. Fascinatingly so.

In terms of the underground cinema, groups and individuals shown different clips, forbidden to discuss it amongst themselves, the intention clearly to prevent concensus and maintain the irreality of the preceding nights events. It is all most curious. Any hypnotic suggestion at that point would have been conducted on the understanding that planted memories would break down quickly without reenforcement, so why disallow reenforcement, unless break down of memories was the intention creating a perpetual well-spring of conflicting realities developed in isolation???

I don't know what is going on with all this. It is beyond apparent that something is being intentionally concealed. Personally, I don't think the 'craft' is necessarily what is being hidden, exotic tech or alien. It could be, just that nothing has shown itself from my perspective that shouts that out to me, or even beckons coyly, perhaps I lack appreciation of what's 'exotic', who knows...but I think all that was part of a great show of baffling bull#.

It's a wonderfully bizarre case. It simply keeps on giving *

* Which I mean with all due respect to Burroughs et al, not dancing a merry jig at their expense or anything, just enjoying the exploratory learning it is facilitating.

a reply to: FireMoon

So, let me see if I've got this right, you're asking why a device that can change the way people percieve and therefore could be used to shorten conflict, thus saving billions of tax payers money, would not be implemented on the 'field of battle'?

Because the people who make it, and own shares in those corporations, wouldn't make as much money.

Pirates. Privateers. Profiteers. The Corporation. Those whose loyalties transcend borders.



Also, because you'd have to keep it secret or everyone would want one, and really that's not what anyone wants on a daily basis, once in a while for a giggle may be

I do not believe that the technology was developed for the purpose of altering perception. I am not convinced that it does alter perception, or that the solution to Rendlesham is entirely a technological one, I do believe that it is an element of it though.

originally posted by: FireMoon
Korea, the Cold War, Vietnam we are to believe that the military held back time and time again from using this technology to win a war inside a couple of weeks?

I can't begin to imagine the answers to all the other questions in your post, but when I read the one above something flashed thru my mind:

What is the economic impact (to the US) of winning wars 'too fast', and thus likely inhibiting more wars from starting?

My point being that the Military Industrial Complex represents a huge chunk of the US economy (not to mention a huge chunk of profit to the Industry itself), so....

....maybe the DOD has the technology but aren't allowed to put it to any 'real' use, because it would cause way too much money making, job producing 'current' military technology to become obsolete?

I don't know, probably wrong, just a thought...

Aah things we were so much simpler back in October 1983.



I was a school kid and the newspapers had just revealed a UFO had landed in England..........

I never thought that I'd be still wondering about it in the 2nd decade of the 21st century. I bet the guys involved didn't either.

I am not convinced Project Condign will reveal the real answer as it's main focus was the later 1987- 1997 period. But there undoubtedly seems to be a link between John Burroughs injuries, what is contained in the report, the apparent classification of Burroughs medical records and why a settlement was made.

Even if we resolve those issues we still have a much huger puzzle to solve of what the whole story is all about.

Double post error!!!

One thing I think we need to consider that seems to have been overlooked , either by design or just simply because it's never really stood out about the whole incident occurs to me. Namely, that which is missing from the whole narrative, that which makes no apparent appearance? That being, the British sitting only yards away behind their fence on Woodbridge Base. I've searched and so far I have come up with a big fat nothing when it comes to anyone making claims, anyone ever hearing anything etc etc. To the best of my knowledge, not one single Brit on duty that night has ever spoken in public about the incident and the debunkers cannot provide one single person from Woodbridge that night, to aid their case either.

It would now seem that, the lighthouse theory has now been holed below the waterline and has sunk and that we have, in effect, a tacit admission something involving UAP happened over those 3 nights. Something strange happened right on the doorstep of a British military base during a holiday period and not one person was interested enough to go and check for themselves or at least, that is how it would seem. To my knowledge, the only serving British service person to say anything about the incident was the ex radar op who did indeed say they had a trace briefly for several sweeps in the exact position the "craft" was reported over the forest and that, in their considered opinion it wasn't a "ghost signature" rather something tangible.

In the intervening years it would seem that, not one person who was at Woodbridge that night has chosen to go public on either side of the fence, either to confirm or dismiss what happened as strange. Yet, my mate's father, ex security services, told him most definitely there was an incident that involved high strangeness and that he had been personally, informed about it.

So, some speculation....

Given it was the holiday season and there was an agreed protocol with their Russian counterparts that, "nothing happened over the winter holiday season" and being a home soil base, many of the British service personnel would have been at home elsewhere in the country and there was a skeleton probably, volunteer staff, then might it be that it was us Brits who carrying out an experiment?

What if, probably by pure accident, someone in the British Services had stumbled on something that seemed to suggest the following. That when certain facilities were activated up popped as if almost on cue and in response, a UFO?

What if the British wanted to determine the following, whether the activation of those particular facilities was of interest to the UFOs or, by their activation it in some manner, exposed those UFOs that were currently in our air space? What better time to try testing their theories out? The Russians are out of the picture, the only people on Woodbridge are all "onside" and the Americans are full of the festive spirit themselves and i l equipped to interfere on any meaningful basis, if they even notice or are interested in it at all?

No-one notices the systems being turned on as that is already routine however, stashed in Woodbridge is a British team unobserved as the base is almost empty, monitoring what happens that night when they do. Then pay dirt, there it is, that which they hoped would appear only there's a complication. A couple of Yanks have stumbled straight into the whole operation and rather than a British team being despatched to check it out they have to, to keep what they are up to under wraps, just sit back and act as if nothing has happened?

What if, having succeeded once, the Brits try two further nights to try and confirm their first experiment only, on the third night it really does run out of control as one of the American base's own leading staff becomes involved? What if, on that third night the UAP snaps back and decides to slap our wrists and make it plain that,n if it so chooses it can with ease, circumvent our security at will and the whole episode with the light shining down pinpointing bunkers containing nuclear warheads, was a "warning"?

What if, the reason we have never heard a word from the British in the forest those nights because, they did indeed develop a way of exposing and tracking hitherto hidden UAPs and that is one secret, still known to only those who really do need to know? Maybe this is where the "tracking system " Richard D hall speaks about originated and it was, first "field tested"?

This is granted, all pure speculation and yet, it does seem to answer some questions as yet, unasked that really should have been addressed years ago?

a reply to: FireMoon

Very interesting speculation as always Firemoon.

We know there was the break up of the Soviet Cosmos rocket over SE England around 9pm Christmas night and also the meteor display early on Boxing Day. Perhaps they really were part of the events that led the US troops to venture off base and onto UK land and they inadvertently got mixed up in something because they shouldn't have been there?

Just one question though. I always thought both bases were leased to the Americans. So which military units from the UK were assigned to Woodbridge in 1980?