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Loss of Christianity induced morality is destroying America

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posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

You hit the nail on the head. No one is perfect, Christians as well. As one, I'm all too familiar with my faults. However, I do consider myself a "good person". The thing is, I could be better. I'm comfortable with who I am. I have everything I could ask for, I'm content with my life. But, there is something that pushes me to strive to do better every day, my beliefs. I have my good days and my bad..but I strive to put aside my own selfish desires to serve others. Sometimes its not easy to do, and sometimes I fail to do it. I get this from my beliefs, those beliefs are backed by a God that I believe in. People can say that they are 'good people' and who am I to judge? I'm okay with that. Why can't others extend the same respect and support to those of us that believe? Christianity has never harmed anyone. Men, influenced by greed and anger are at fault for that. Its easy to blame a concept, the problems are that humans are very imperfect creatures that are influenced by a variety of outside forces. Christ tried to give a plain map to navigate the treacherous waters.




posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 09:59 PM
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Hatred of several different groups at once, leaders who don't practice what they preach, brainwashing of parishoners to vote certain ways in violation of their non profit tax status. Massive coverup of sexual abuse, massive accumulation of wealth by the Church in contravention of Jesus' teachings.

If these are Catholic morals (just to name a few), we're better off without them.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 10:02 PM
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Claiming that God isn't moral is claiming that there is a God, which I believe to be a false statement.

Therefore, the lack of a God in the mind of Atheists would preclude any bias in one way or the other if that God is actually moral or not.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 10:09 PM
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a reply to: babybunnies

Uh,oh, must be a Baptist....



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: StalkerSolent




There's nothing around that can put them down.


Science and common sense, can and will "put them down".


Naaw. Science and "common sense" cannot fill humanity's desire for transcendent truth.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 10:31 PM
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originally posted by: StalkerSolent

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: StalkerSolent




There's nothing around that can put them down.


Science and common sense, can and will "put them down".


Naaw. Science and "common sense" cannot fill humanity's desire for transcendent truth.


You're right. But there's little to none of THAT in the 3 Abrahamic religions, nor are they relevant in the world today. Those who are ardent seekers and sincere in their pursuit have never needed religion, churches, temples or cathedrals, priests, rabbis or preachers, baptisms, or "jesusjuice and crackers" to lead them to transcendence.

That's not what religion is for. Religion's purpose is control and regulation the masses. Religion is losing its grip.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 10:58 PM
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originally posted by: windword
You're right. But there's little to none of THAT in the 3 Abrahamic religions, nor are they relevant in the world today. Those who are ardent seekers and sincere in their pursuit have never needed religion, churches, temples or cathedrals, priests, rabbis or preachers, baptisms, or "jesusjuice and crackers" to lead them to transcendence.

That's not what religion is for. Religion's purpose is control and regulation the masses. Religion is losing its grip.


The purpose of government is to control and regulate the masses, but it is not losing its grip. Nor do all people need government to regulate them. Nevertheless, people continue to support the government. Why should religion being any different?

Just because you don't see relevance or transcendent truth in the Abrahamic religions doesn't mean other people don't. Remember, whether or not something is actually true is irrelevant: the perception is what matters.

One more thing: religion looks like it is on the way out in the West because of recent cultural developments. Most of the world is not the West.
edit on 1-3-2015 by StalkerSolent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 11:27 PM
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I see what you are complaining about but I don't think religious values are the answer. One issue you have is simply the political culture. Those with strong convictions don't feel politics will help them propel their convictions. So what you have ended up with is a hierarchy of career politicians and for them the sole goal is to stay in the game and that requires to play it safe, to not make the big decisions and to not follow your convictions. And even when one tries to follow convictions rather than getting a decent debate you have people blocking you for the sake of sake. It has become childish and ridiculous and part of the blame is on the population for voting for these people, or for not voting at all. Despite how it may look America is not a two party system, there are other parties unconnected with the big two and there are independents. The problem is they do not have an advertising budget and if you want to find out about them you have to search for them yourself (Google is a start). If the non voting population started voting for those smaller parties and independents you would break the hold of the two parties and the system might actually change. Perhaps if you are so full of convictions channel your convictions into politics yourself and try and be a pioneering independent.



posted on Mar, 1 2015 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: StalkerSolent

I think government has stepped in to fill the void that people's lack of faith in gods has left. Just a few hundred years ago, there was no difference between government and religion. Many countries still practiced the rule of "Divine Right", which the Bible endorses, by the way.

We're going through a rough patch, we're between a rock and hard place. How will we be governed in the future? Through terrorism of one form or another? The same was popular with the Catholic Church at one time, and now seems to be popular with another "Abrahamic" sect, echoing the sentiments of the first Abrahamic sect and their Old Testament thirst for violence and blood.

Something's got to give. But I don't think it's going to be the "end of the world". Nor do I think some savior is going to arrive from Heaven to "rule with an iron rod" for a 1000 years, or whatever. When people stop looking for the end of the world through some religious rite, and magical remedies from Heaven, these religions will lose their hold.



edit on 1-3-2015 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 12:09 AM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: StalkerSolent

I think government has stepped in to fill the void that people's lack of faith in gods has left. Just a few hundred years ago, there was no difference between government and religion. Many countries still practiced the rule of "Divine Right", which the Bible endorses, by the way.

We're going through a rough patch, we're between a rock and hard place. How will we be governed in the future? Through terrorism of one form or another? The same was popular with the Catholic Church at one time, and now seems to be popular with another "Abrahamic" sect, echoing the sentiments of the first Abrahamic sect and their Old Testament thirst for violence and blood.

Something's got to give. But I don't think it's going to be the "end of the world". Nor do I think some savior is going to arrive from Heaven to "rule with an iron rod" for a 1000 years, or whatever. When people stop looking for the end of the world through some religious rite, and magical remedies from Heaven, these religions will lose their hold.


I think it's a bad thing that the government has stepped in to fill the void. I certainly think it has happened (in the West, mind you), but frankly, government cannot perform to the same standard that religion always has. It is woefully unequipped to deal with questions of eternal significance. Religions promise a glorious hereafter, and no one can accuse them of fraud, because no one comes back. But governments end up being called upon to deliver a glorious now. No social program, no matter how blissful, can perform at the same level as the final eschaton. No justice meted out by bureaucrats can top the apocalypse. In the end, government fails to perform as demanded.

Obama really said it best when he said people had grown bitter, and were clinging to religion. Of course they are! The government is trying to compete with something that promised perfection. It can't measure up.

Interestingly, your ideas of "something's got to give" are slightly eschatological, end of the world or no. You seem to look forward to a bright future full of science and "common sense." We're more likely to see the ISIS' vision of the last days than that
Most likely, nothing will give, and things will go about as they always have. Historically, irreligiousness has a poor track record. Look at Russia, for example. The intelligentsia of the nation went from a total rejection of Christianity to a more open-minded approach towards religion before the Communists took over. There, they attempted heartily to impose atheism for decades, but that failed, and now Russia is back to "Autocracy, Orthodoxy, and Nationalism" again. They understand the power of religion.

Likewise, your idea that we are "going through a rough patch" are very interesting, considering that this is pretty much the best moment in time to be living. Medicine works really well, our wars are small, and (in the USA) the crime rate is down. Who is it rough for?



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: LifeInVirtual

Please, I can barely manage my own household, let alone fix anyone else's problems.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not suggesting that I am worthy or have the moral fidelity to be one of those leaders.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 12:30 AM
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a reply to: StalkerSolent

Fantastic post my friend. You are spot on. The government will never be able to replace the benefits of religion through programs.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 12:39 AM
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a reply to: babybunnies

Do you know what they do with all of this wealth? My oldest son goes to a Catholic Preparatory school. This school is amazing, the kids there get the benefits of an education at a level very few get. It's also expensive. I can't afford the tuition. Neither can many other parents. However, the big bad Vatican gives out almost 1 Million dollars in tuition assistance at this ONE high school! Every year! Can you imagine how much this adds up across the world? I personally see the money I donate in action. I'm given a receipt each tax season with my total donations and where the money went.

I am absolutely disgusted by the monsters that abused children. It happens in every religion, probably because the sickos want to be in a position that allows them trust and access to kids. I'm still very angry that the Catholic Heirarchy tried to bury it. Am I going to let the actions of others change my beliefs? No.
edit on 2-3-2015 by lambs to lions because: Add



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:01 AM
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originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: StalkerSolent

Fantastic post my friend. You are spot on. The government will never be able to replace the benefits of religion through programs.


Thanks a lot!

I'm a Christian, but from what I've seen you don't have to be religious to understand the enormous influence religion has on society, or to understand that it seems to fill a fundamental human need. Like everything else in life, it can be used for good or ill, but it has far-reaching benefits on social cohesion.

I think most nations will fall apart, or at least feel as if they are going through a crisis when the religious norms break down. Doubly so if there is nothing after them to serve as a substitute. What does the West have to offer to replace Christianity...consumerism? Bleh. (And we wonder why Westerners are joining ISIS.) At least the Romans (who were awesome, by the way) had their decaying paganism replaced by Christianity.

By the way, thanks for distinguishing between a society full of healthy individuals and theocratic state!



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:07 AM
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originally posted by: StalkerSolent

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: StalkerSolent

originally posted by: Tangerine
Most of this whining is coming from men who can't accept the fact that the incestuous twins patriarchy and the appalling Abrahamic religions are in their death throes and women are no longer willing to be their doormats.


Meh. Not going to happen.
Religion fills a critical void in the human psyche. Otherwise, we would not have evolved to have it.
Or, perhaps it is a genuine need that was placed in mankind by a Creator.

Either way, it is here to stay. Even irreligious people can hold beliefs that are essentially religious. They may not be tied to a particular faith, but they share a startling similarity to religious views. For instance, apocalyptic beliefs like the fear of global warming/climate change and the resulting destruction of the world remind one of the eschatological views held by Christians or Muslims. (This is just one example, but I'm sure ATSers are well-acquainted with other doomsday views!) Similarly, progressive views that hold to the idea of societal progress is similar to the eschatological views of some Christians who believe that the Kingdom of God will keep spreading and spreading until Christ returns.

Religion has been with us from the very beginning. It will see us through to the end.


You misread my post. I didn't say that religion isn't here to stay. I said patriarchy and the Abrahamic religions are in their death throes. Interesting that you couldn't distinguish that from religion in general. Hmmm.


I read your post just fine, thanks.

I don't see any evidence that the Abrahamic religions are in there death throes. There's nothing around that can put them down. Paganism was killed off by the Abrahamic religions, and there's nothing around right now with the spiritual stopping power to bother the Abrahamic religions. In fact, they're still growing: Christianity in Asia and Africa, Islam in the West. If religion is really around to stay, than Islam and Christianity are going to continue to be around for some time.



I suppose it's entirely possible, even likely, that the Abrahamic religions will end the reign of humans on earth by destroying most of us. That will certainly be the end of religion.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:09 AM
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originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: nwtrucker

You hit the nail on the head. No one is perfect, Christians as well. As one, I'm all too familiar with my faults. However, I do consider myself a "good person". The thing is, I could be better. I'm comfortable with who I am.


The problem is that you're not comfortable with others. You want your belief system to be theirs. That's not going to happen.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:10 AM
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originally posted by: lambs to lions
a reply to: nwtrucker

Christianity has never harmed anyone.


Huh?



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:11 AM
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originally posted by: StalkerSolent

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: StalkerSolent




There's nothing around that can put them down.


Science and common sense, can and will "put them down".


Naaw. Science and "common sense" cannot fill humanity's desire for transcendent truth.


Religion certainly can't provide that, either.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: StalkerSolent

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: StalkerSolent




There's nothing around that can put them down.


Science and common sense, can and will "put them down".


Naaw. Science and "common sense" cannot fill humanity's desire for transcendent truth.


You're right. But there's little to none of THAT in the 3 Abrahamic religions, nor are they relevant in the world today. Those who are ardent seekers and sincere in their pursuit have never needed religion, churches, temples or cathedrals, priests, rabbis or preachers, baptisms, or "jesusjuice and crackers" to lead them to transcendence.

That's not what religion is for. Religion's purpose is control and regulation the masses. Religion is losing its grip.




Well said. Religion is, indeed, a social control system.



posted on Mar, 2 2015 @ 01:13 AM
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a reply to: StalkerSolent

It's also true what you said about consumerism. My mother in law is case in point. She can't stop herself from accumulating stuff, the immediate satisfaction of the purchase fills a void...for a short time. She isn't introspective enough to realize what's happening, or she won't admit it anyway.

It's an epidemic. I once told a friend, " look around your house and imagine how much money all of your STUFF cost, then think how much time you spent working to earn that....lastly, if you were to try and sell it how much would you get?"

The answer is "next to nothing!" Basically, many millions of Americans trade most their free time for useless plastic inanimate objects.



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