Stars Can't Be Seen from Outer Space

a reply to: GaryN

It says 'observation windows'. There are lots - though from your posts the casual reader would assume that there is only the cupola.

"Eliminates atmospheric distortion"

Standard Nikon D4 camera.

Think about why they're doing this - to use objects you claim are invisible for navigation.

Biggest load of hogwash I've read in my life.

I was lucky enough to "Actually" be at a seminar during my varsity years where Mark Shuttleworth came to chat to our physics and IT departments and students.( You know who he is? The 1st African in Space)
He went on 2 ISS missions in the early 00's, and he said EXPLICITLY in that seminar that the amount of stars seen from space will take your breath away.

originally posted by: xGerhardSAx
Biggest load of hogwash I've read in my life.

I was lucky enough to "Actually" be at a seminar during my varsity years where Mark Shuttleworth came to chat to our physics and IT departments and students.( You know who he is? The 1st African in Space)
He went on 2 ISS missions in the early 00's, and he said EXPLICITLY in that seminar that the amount of stars seen from space will take your breath away.

I also heard the same thing directly from Leonov and Hadfields mouths last year (2 seperate occasions)...but GaryN hasnt addressed this.

originally posted by: GaryN
When Armstrong said it was black in space, he meant it. He did not say the Moon and Sun were visible from cislunar space.

And that's after numerous transcript quotes (and even some film footage later) showing that the astronauts saw the Sun and its light shining through the CM and LM windows and were commenting on it? www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is your memory like a sieve?

- 400Km not means cisluna space. there are spaces and spaces, some denser other less denser. I mean the energy density not particles. and the exosphere still has its own energy gradient!
- visible light is a local phenomenon
- is hard GaryN, is hard to open minds already well closed!

originally posted by: sadang

- is hard GaryN, is hard to open minds already well closed!

Why are you talking to yourself Gary?

Also, i think i can speak for all of us when i say that we would be happy to change our beliefs if you actually presented something tangible

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Why are you talking to yourself Gary?

- cause I can is a convenient answer?
- on the other hand I am neither a politician nor a bishop to change your belief. I'm only a common man who dare to think for himself, far away from any dogma and/or belief, even scientific dogma or belief.

originally posted by: sadang

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Why are you talking to yourself Gary?

- cause I can is a convenient answer?
- on the other hand I am neither a politician nor a bishop to change your belief. I'm only a common man who dare to think for himself, far away from any dogma and/or belief, even scientific dogma or belief.

Fine. Lets pretend for a second you are not GaryN, even though i know you are.

Tell me something that GaryN had not managed to answer. If he is right, then our electromagnetic laws are COMPLETELEY wrong. So, if thats the case, then how are out monitors working, radios, microwaves etc..

- even though I know you don't know what to pretend related to me, let's say for more than a second the electromagnetic theory is just a segment from something more complete. as is also the reality shaped by this theory! if you can comprehend this then you will begin to understand how "out monitors working, radios, microwaves etc.." really works, and why the light is just a local phenomenon. and certainly you will end using radical words as "COMPLETELY"! cause nothing, never and nowhere is "COMPLETELY".

a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

He went on 2 ISS missions in the early 00's, and he said EXPLICITLY in that seminar that the amount of stars seen from space will take your breath away.

From the Cupola, yes, we have seen those images. As from the surface of the EArth, they are looking through the atmosphere. He was never EVA, could not look away from Earth.

I also heard the same thing directly from Leonov and Hadfields mouths last year (2 seperate occasions)...but GaryN hasnt addressed this.

I have, but you just keep repeating the same old tired stuff. Hadfield did not lie, the stars are many when looking through the atmosphere, it is totally black when from EVA you can look away from Earth. How simple can it be?

It says 'observation windows'. There are lots - though from your posts the casual reader would assume that there is only the cupola.

All images are from the Cupola unless stated otherwise. Knowing which window or porthole is being used is extremely important to the question of visibility in space. Cislunar space is the big test, and of course all attempts to photograph anything from cislunar space were miserable failures. Not a single photo of the Sun, period.
The moon photography experiment would seem to be from a port NOT looking through the lower atmosphere, but without full experiment details, which they will likely never publish, no scientific conclusions can be reached. The image available is not like all the ones from the Cupola, I want to know why.

Think about why they're doing this - to use objects you claim are invisible for navigation.

If the stars were not visible on the trip to the Moon, then they could not navigate by them. And not knowing which camera was used on the experiment, you do not know if it is one that has had it's IR response improved, the image may be showing just IR. Show us the details NASA.

is hard GaryN, is hard to open minds already well closed!

[SNIPPED]

a reply to: GaryN

The stars were visible on the way to and from the moon, they navigated by them. Read the mission transcripts for repeated references to that navigation process as well as all the other references to seeing stars.

You can also search the transcripts for the number of times they refer to the brightness of the moon and sun - I was going to compile some but frankly don't see the point because you'll ignore them just as you have everything else that proves you wrong.

Instead, have a movie composed of metric mapping camera stills as Apollo 15 left the moon. A camera exposed to space, well away from the moon, using film. Your 'theory' says this should not happen:

- I know GaryN, I've got to read your message before to be removed. And let me tell that it doesn't matter, as I already said I'm not here to change beliefs, just to raise question marks and to support you in your try.

a reply to: OneBigMonkeyToo

The stars were visible on the way to and from the moon, they navigated by them.

"Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we are able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip.

Now, who should I believe, a man who did the trip, or an armchair wanabee?

@sadang

- I know GaryN, I've got to read your message before to be removed.

Seems it's OK for some users to make unfounded accusations about others, but not the other way around.

as I already said I'm not here to change beliefs

Yes, we must all make our own decisions, and live with the consequences. I have presented my interpretation of the evidence, or lack of, for the visibility of things in space. The model of light being created only where there is sufficient matter to 'transform' solar radiation (an EM force) into photons makes the most sense. I like the model of the Sun as a gamma ray source, the gamma rays being attenuated to lower enerfies as they encounter matter on their travels.
I think the model of the Sun that ancient cultures or religions had, and some still do, is really much closer to the truth. The Sun is our Creator (or Destroyer), it sends out not just the radiation that leads to the heat and light that allows for our physical existence, but also information, likely encoded in neutrinos or maybe even smaller EM packets not yet detectable. Many ancient civilisations were much more advanced than us in spiritual understanding, or being closer to the One. We are all part of the Creator, connected by invisible threads of energy, and are on a journey to learn and understand our own existence.
There is a talk by an elderly English member of the elite that I think speaks truths about our role and place in the Grand Scheme, a little long and poor audio quality, but the first 20 minutes or so really resonates with my beliefs.
Title: The Emergence of the Grail Race.
Speaker: Sir George Trevelyan
Edit: Can't link directly, it's first on this page:
www.wessexresearchgroup.org...

a reply to: GaryN

Doesn't matter which you believe- Armstrong says he saw stars & the crew navigated using them as you well know. Either way you're cancelling out your own argument. Check the transcripts for things like:

05 12 24 39 CMP Roger. We have a TEI 30, SPS/G&N: 36691, minus 061, plus 067 135 23 4149; plus 32020, plus 06713, minus 02773 181 054 013; NA, plus 00230, plus 32833 228 32625, 24 1510 355; NA three times, plus 1103, minus 17237 11806 36275 195 04 52. Deneb and Vega 242 172 012, two jet ullage, 16 seconds; horizon 11 degree line at TIG minus 2 minutes; sextant star visible after 134 50. Over.

a reply to: GaryN

- yes indeed, not too much wisdom for armchair wannabe! but for sure more comfortable!
- yes indeed, your interpretation of Sun is much more real than of NASA's
- yes indeed, it send what we call information but not as EM packets, cause Plank size is just a human mind limitation!
- yes indeed, Sun is the creator of everything in its heliosphere, as the Earth is the creator of everything in its magnetosphere too, but strictly dependent of the first.
- but ultimately is their right to choose which part they want from universal but individually understood truth.

"02 23 59 20 CDR
Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we are able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip. It's - the sky is full of stars. Just like the nightside of Earth. But all the way here, we have only been able to see stars occasionally and perhaps through the monocular, but not recognize any star patterns."

originally posted by: sadang


"02 23 59 20 CDR
Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we are able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip. It's - the sky is full of stars. Just like the nightside of Earth. But all the way here, we have only been able to see stars occasionally and perhaps through the monocular, but not recognize any star patterns."

You're underlining something you think is significant, but it still actually says they can see stars, which they used to navigate.

If you read mission transcripts, as I have, instead of relying on what other people tell you they say, you can find all sorts of stuff. Like the Gemini IV conversation about how much of the stellar field is cut out by the spacecraft windows. Gemini 4 has an extensive conversation about the stars they can see.

www.jsc.nasa.gov...

They could see stars. They repeatedly said so.

originally posted by: GaryN
Edit: Can't link directly, it's first on this page:
www.wessexresearchgroup.org...

I like the introduction:

Title: The Emergence of the Grail Race.
Speaker: Sir George Trevelyan

Sir George discusses the importance of the myth in human consciousness and describes how in living our lives we are living the greatest myth of all. In this epoch human consciousness is called upon to make a quantum leap to bring to birth a new society and so a new era for humanity. He describes how it has been the task of the west to investigate and master the world of matter. We must now rediscover our identities as spiritual beings and transform the Earth from being the planet of wisdom to the planet of love, ridding it of egotism, greed and rivalry. "Walk on yourself and serve the world".

The official story in mainstream science that spirituality and science must be kept separate, and on forums that spirituality has no place in science and technology, is contributing to the stalemate that exists in trying to overcome the obvious weaknesses in mainstream science.

As long as the official story continues, mainstream science will remain right where it is: stuck.

It can't seem to get out of its own way.

a reply to: ConnectDots
Can wisdom and love calculate the orbits of planets, asteroids, or comets, calculate the fuel and trajectories of rockets, and get them to rendezvous with those planets/asteroids/comets many years in the future?

Can wisdom and love study molecular interactions and come up with life-saving medical treatments or groundbreaking material physics?

Was it love and wisdom that created this computer or mobile device you're typing on?

originally posted by: wildespace


P.S. And look what I've just found! eol.jsc.nasa.gov... A starry shot using 28mm lens, with Earth nowhere in sight (although the hint of red in the top left corner might by the red airglow). That's got to be looking very far into deep space.

It's just as likely to be sensor noise if it's a digital image.