It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Best of the Best....Air superiority Fighters

page: 9
2
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 05:15 AM
link   

Originally posted by W4rl0rD
F-15Cs can definetly shoot down a Su-30MKI with BVR,


What Ball$!! and where did you get that from?Here we are debating whether the radar onboard the Su-30MKI is equivalent to the AESA and you've gone ahead and assumed that F-15c is superior at BVR?

Please check the radar and BVR capabilities of the MKI before making such bold statements..




posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 07:03 AM
link   
Siberiantiger, those sources aren't reliable. Why is is that they don't have any pictures of B-2 wreckage? It's a simple question. They had wreckage of the F-117. People were stealing parts when it went down. Did the B-2's just magically disappear?

As for the radar on the Su-30MKI, its inferior to the AESA radar. AESA tracks 24 targets, and can fire on 12. Compare that to the 20 targets/8 followed of the NO11M. The range would seem about the same, although I'd wager the AESA, taunted as being able to track cruise missiles, is more sensitive then the NO11M.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 07:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
As for the radar on the Su-30MKI, its inferior to the AESA radar. AESA tracks 24 targets, and can fire on 12. Compare that to the 20 targets/8 followed of the NO11M. The range would seem about the same, although I'd wager the AESA, taunted as being able to track cruise missiles, is more sensitive then the NO11M.


Thats also my answer.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 09:25 AM
link   
Firstly can we look at the possible B2 shot down from a military side?

A. You have just shot down a B2 , nice promotion in line huh comrade! , but do you want the world to know that you have shot down a B2?

B. You have finnally made tech to take down americas stealthiest plane, so would you want them knowing this?

C. Its quite possible the aircraft was comepltely incinerated or simply crashed somewhere unknown.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 10:21 AM
link   
The first two are answered easily enough. They flaunted the F-117, so they'd do the same with a B-2.

The third is just unlikely. If two of these went down, the Serbs would have been all over them.

A bigger problem is that its hard to hide billions in losses like that. Two B-2's wouldn't go unnoticed. There are plenty of politicians who would love to see B-2's, and other expensive stealth programs gone here in America.

Keeping it a secret simply isn't practical.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 10:37 AM
link   
Su 30 MKI radar:

Radar
The forward facing Phazotron NO11M Bars is a powerful integrated radar sighting system. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar (X and L Band, NATO D and I). Antenna diameter is 1m, antenna gain 36dB, the main sidelobe level is -25dB, average sideobe level is -48dB, beamwidth is 2.4 deg with 12 distinct beam shapes. The antenna weighs 100kg.

The N011M radar has been under flight testing since 1993, fitted to Su-27M (Su-35) prototype '712'. It employs the same level of technology as the now abandoned N014 radar which was to have equipped Mikoyan's MFI "fifth-generation" fighter and was initiated by Tamerlan Bekirbayev. The nose of the Su-30MKI was modified (compared the Su-27) to accommodate the fixed antenna array and more avionics boxes.

Note that the N011M is different from the N011: the N011 is mechanical scanning while the former is features a phased array antenna and is much more capable. The mechanical scan version equips the No 24 Sqn aircraft. "We can count the number of blades in the engine of the aircraft in sight (by the NO11M) and by that determine its type," NIIP claims.

The N011M can function both in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneusly while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial / GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. The aircraft has an opto-electronic surveillance and targeting system which consists of a IR direction finder, laser rangefinder and helmet mounted sight system. The HMS allows the pilot to turn his head in a 90 field of view, lock on to a target and launch the much-feared R-73RDM2 missile.


In preliminary long range aiming, the targets (co-ordinates of which enter the navigation system) are locked on automatically, and the onboard locator is disengaged. The aircraft flies radio silent to the targets, and at a range close to the maximum one required for launching the weapons, the threat updating aids are engaged and the weapon is fired. In doing so, the attack time is minimal and the low-observable target approach increases the success of a mission greatly. The Su-30MKI can be fitted with an imaging IR navigation and attack equipment pod to provide night attacks against small-size ground targets.

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously. The forward hemisphere is 90 in azimuth and 55 in elevation. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km.
A Bars' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of acquiring Su-27 fighters at a range of over 330 km. In comparison, the advanced Kopyo radar found in the latest MiG-21UPG can detect small drone targets at a range of 50 km. Another radar meant for the Flanker family, Phazotron-NIIRs Zhuk-MS radar has a range of 150-180km against a fighter and over 300km against a warship. N011M can withstand up to 5 percent transceiver loss without significant degredation in performance. Additionally the Su-30MKI can function as a 'mimi-AWACS' and can act as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to atleast 4 other aircraft. This feature was first seen in the MiG-31 Foxhound, which is equipped with a Zaslon radar.

Russian designers have stated that they believe that the key to dogfight supremacy rests in the pilot's ability to engage the enemy in any position relative to their own aircraft. While TVC permits post-stall maneuvering and pointing which are impossible in conventional aircraft, they are convinced that a rearward facing radar and missiles that can be fired in the aft-quadrant all join to make an unbeatable integrated weapons system.

Ground surveillance modes include mapping (with Doppler beam sharpening), search & track of moving targets, synthetic aperture radar and terrain avoidance. To penetrate enemy defenses, the aircraft can fly at low altitudes using the terrain following and obstacle avoidance feature. It enables the pilot to independently find his position without help from external sources (satellite navigation, etc.); detect ground targets and their AD systems; choose the best approach route to a target with continuous updates fed to the aircraft navigation systems; and provide onboard systems and armament with targeting data.

According to Sukhoi EDB the Su-30MKI is capable of performing all tactical tasks of the Su-24 Fencer deep interdiction tactical bomber and the Su-27 Flanker A/B/C air superiority fighter while having around twice the combat range and atleast 2.5 times the combat effectiveness.

The N011M offers a quantum leap in technology over the earlier Russian radars. Small ground targets, like tanks, can be detected out to 40-50 km. The MiG-29, Su-27 and other fighters can be provided with a ground strike capability only if their radars can operate in the down-looking mode which generates a map of ground surface on a cockpit display (this mode is called the Mapping Mode).

N011M ensures a 20 m resolution detection of large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and of small size ones - at a distance of 120 km. Coupled with the air-launched Brahmos-A AShM, the Su-30MKI will become an unchallanged platform for Anti-Ship duties. The Brahmos is a result of a joint collaboration between India and Russia and is a variant of the Yakhont AShM (which has not entered service).

The Su-30MKI also has a NO12 rearward facing radar which is housed at the end of the center section spine or sting and alerts a pilot to the approach of an enemy aircraft on his tail. This radar has a range of 50km for a 3 sqm RCS target and 100 km for large ones. It features a surveillance area of 60 in azimuth and elevation. It enables the pilot to fire the R-73RDM2 missile without turning to get a positive lock on the enemy aircraft. The missile will be launched as usual and will then flip 180 to intercept the aircraft.



Does the F-15 have that?

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 11:44 AM
link   

For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously. The forward hemisphere is 90 in azimuth and 55 in elevation. These targets can include cruise/ballistic missiles and even motionless helicopters. A MiG-21 for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140-160km.


The AESA has a similiar range, it tracks more targets, and has been said to track something as stealthy and small as cruise missiles.

Considering the AESA equipped F-15's (not to mention F-18's) will be used for more than a decade, to doubt their current capability would be foolish.



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 03:10 PM
link   
NOW I KNOW YOUR TACTIC Your tactic TO POLISH The U.S.'s IMAGE it's to constantly repeat "it's not reliable!" those sites have NEVER been proven to be unreliable people only just say they "are not reliable" and anyways they are qouting U.S. Government sources here here's a YANK site www.rjlee.org... and if your going to sit here and say U.S. didn't lose 37 planes in Gulf War 1 when you can even watch your own "History Chanel" were U.S. officials say the lost 37 planes then you need to be TRULY schooled in "commen scence" yes it's very easy to do simple research to see that U.S. did lose 37 planes you can even punch up CNN's archives you must be aroung 20-21 years old and were only a child at the time of GW 1 if your saying it isn't true or your just a liar trying to brainwash other 20-21 year olds who don't know anything!!


[edit on 4-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]

[edit on 4-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 03:14 PM
link   
i'm sensing a little hyporacy from the russian

EDIT:... I see you took me literally russian

[edit on 4-1-2005 by Lucretius]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 03:24 PM
link   
GO BACK TO MY POST I'VE PROVIDED YANK SOURCE for my "suposed hypocracy"


[edit on 4-1-2005 by SiberianTiger]



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 03:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The first two are answered easily enough. They flaunted the F-117, so they'd do the same with a B-2.

The third is just unlikely. If two of these went down, the Serbs would have been all over them.

A bigger problem is that its hard to hide billions in losses like that. Two B-2's wouldn't go unnoticed. There are plenty of politicians who would love to see B-2's, and other expensive stealth programs gone here in America.

Keeping it a secret simply isn't practical.

Yeah but who's to say they where fired by the same crews, its improbable but not impossible.

The USAF would hide the facts if it lose 2 B-2's.
Dont you think?



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 09:46 PM
link   
that is right

B-2A's downed

oh, who cares, 4,000lbs. more of dry thrust, its still lower than that of the AL-41

by the way, you keep talking about how the Su-27 is inferior to the F-15, i can acknowledge that in the sense of avionics, but in the sense of true, combat performance and characteristics, the shape of the plane and everything, it is the PERFECT plane aerodynamically, i know this may sound stupid, but many people agree that it is prefect(compared to all aircraft out currently, even the F-22)

by the way, the AL-41 was supposed to come out way before the Pratt and Whitney F-119-100 i believe(correct me if i am mistaken)but its developement was skewered because of the collapse of the Soviet Union, many projects were, thats why supposedly, Russia is "behind" America in technological terms, you can keep claiming this, but the fact is that YOU guys bought technology from Russia, specifically scalar-electromagnetic technology and most likely even more, who knows what those crazy Ivan's were working up in those science centers

here's the site that says an Su-30MK did its full show routine with weapons on-board

mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk...

for those that are not clear on the different variants of the Sukhoi 27 family, this really clears it up really well, the Su-30MK is a multirole version of the Su-30 for export(hence the "K") it even gives the weapons that were fielded on the aircraft

also, have you guys heard about the P-42, absolutely amazing aircraft, it brings the F-15 to shame, it was the exact same type of aircraft as the Streak Eagle, intended for setting records in climbs with weapon loads and such, well, here's some cool stuff for ya

the P-42 succeeded in taking ALL of the Streak Eagle's records, and to this day, holds no fewer than 27 FAI records

many people think that the Soviet Union was an offensive country, with their massive nuclear arsenal and such, but in fact, they were much more defensive than offensive, thats why they didn't bother spending tens of billions building aircraft carriers, and thats why they waited for America to churn out a "superior" fighter aircraft, then Russia would answer that call(F-16 hence MiG-29, F-15 hence Su-27)

and the variants that Russia developed were all superior to American ones(#, got close-minded again, sorry, apologize)

correction, in many ways, these Aircraft were superior to those of America

anyways, i have made a massive database, truly massive database on ALL NATO aircraft shot down during Yugoslavia, if anyone wants a request on it, i can email it to you, i hope you have Microsoft Excel, i put it in by order of date

by the way, you guys are curious about F-117A's shot down and the B-2A's

well, here's some stuff

a total of 6 were downed

F-117A on March 27 by SA-3 or SA-6
F-117A on April 6 by unknown causes
F-117A on March 25 by unknown causes
F-117A on March 31 by unknown causes
F-117A on April 5 by unknown causes
F-117A on May 4 by unknown causes

a total of only 3 were damaged
F-117A on April 21 by mechanical problems
F-117A on April 30 by SA-3
F-117A on April 1 by unknown causes

there was one unconfirmed shooting of an F-117A by a MiG-29

now the B-2A's

three of them were downed

B-2A destroyed on May 20 by unknown SAM
B-2A destroyed on May 8 by unknown causes
B-2A destroyed June 1 by unknown causes

let me elaborate on the first B-2A

it was shot down on May 20 between the towns of Simanovci and Kupinovo in the Pecinci district, it was detected by a long wave early-warning radar and a SAM was launched, the number of the plane was: AV-8 88-0329, the name of the B-2A was, The Spirit of Missouri

now, the second B-2A shot down was called the Spirit of Washington and the seriel code of the aircraft was AV-11 88-0332 it was downed on May 8 by unknown causes, they give no info on the third B-2A shot down, so, it might be an unconfirmed downing, or maybe it was another plane, all i know is that one of my mother's best friends lived in Yugoslavia at the time, and he said that he saw some huge ass triangle falling, it had been shot down, but he estimated that it was about 100-150 feet in diameter

well, i guess thats all i have to say, goodnight



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 10:00 PM
link   
oh, and if your curious, where veniks information comes from, read thise, it also says why the Serbs didn't show more picture sand videos

and common sense, really, please, is ANY country in the world going to admit that they lost a 2 billion dollar plane, really,i don't know anyone stupid enough to do that, imagine what morale damage it would generate towards the airforce, stealth would never be talked about the same way ever again, the F-22 and F-35 would be immeditaely scrapped, even Russia would find a way to keep it hidden if they had to, don't you think America, with all their global control, through the Olympics elections and all that stuff, could hide 3 aircraft from being shot down



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 10:11 PM
link   
sorry, forgot to post the site, lol

here it is

www.aeronautics.ru...

wow, this forum has really gotten better lately, like it better than russian federation forces index



posted on Jan, 4 2005 @ 11:28 PM
link   


which is considerably lower than the AL-41, and Warlord, if the F-22 goes above Mach 2.1, the RAM melts off, what, no way?


Nope... It can go faster but they will start running into problems with its composite materials.

On to the other things about loosing B-2s and many other fighter jets in Yuko and Iraq, pure unedited BS in its most sincere form...





What Ball$!! and where did you get that from?Here we are debating whether the radar onboard the Su-30MKI is equivalent to the AESA and you've gone ahead and assumed that F-15c is superior at BVR?


I've done this in another thread... The F-15C with AESA can best the MKI in both radar power, SA, and ECM capabilities.




oh, who cares, 4,000lbs. more of dry thrust, its still lower than that of the AL-41


What is the game here? Time to climb?
Sounds like someone will need an engine overhaul after just a fraction of the time of the '22s?


Also, you arent going to fool too many with that propaganda BS... It's been done to death, aircraft have been counted in inventory, and you would think that there would be more on display at the circus as seeing that its one of the most capable bombers in military history...



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 01:24 AM
link   
I doubt neither to Russians nor the Americans would admit to a B2 being shotdown.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 01:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer


The AESA has a similiar range, it tracks more targets, and has been said to track something as stealthy and small as cruise missiles.

Considering the AESA equipped F-15's (not to mention F-18's) will be used for more than a decade, to doubt their current capability would be foolish.


And how many more targets can it track? Also the N011M can track cruise misslies as mentioned above. Nobody is doubting AESA tech..its just that the NO11M and AESA use the ver same technology of split radar and so it would be foolish to presume that the N011M is inferior.



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 01:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer


The AESA has a similiar range, it tracks more targets, and has been said to track something as stealthy and small as cruise missiles.

Considering the AESA equipped F-15's (not to mention F-18's) will be used for more than a decade, to doubt their current capability would be foolish.


And how many more targets can it track? Also the N011M can track cruise misslies as mentioned above. Nobody is doubting AESA tech..its just that the NO11M and AESA use the ver same technology of split radar and so it would be foolish to presume that the N011M is inferior.
Plus does the AESA incorporate a rear radar like the NO12? Does the f-15c carry a r-73 equivalent rear fired missle?



posted on Jan, 5 2005 @ 07:30 PM
link   
but the AL-41 still generates 5,090 pounds more thrust, coupled with the fact that the Russian MFI will most likely not be near the weight of the F-22(it will be close, but most likely not over), it will achieve greater acceleration, and most likely a higher top speed

say what you want, say its BS, all i know is that its simple to understand why a nation, or a group of nations(NATO) would hide their military losses

NATO is supposed to be the policing power of the world, now, if word got out, that their aircraft could be easily dealt with using 35 year old SA-3 and SA-6's, then how much influence or power would NATO have over states such as North Korea, Iran or Algeria

and the same can be said of America(policing in Afghanistan and Iraq), a truly simple concept to understand



posted on Jan, 6 2005 @ 12:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Does the f-15c carry a r-73 equivalent rear fired missle?


And what if any is the combat record of the missile in question?



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join