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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 08:19 AM by W4rl0rD
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My rewritten list:
1. F-22
2. Eurofighter Typhoon
3. Su-30 MKI
4. F-15C AESA
5. JSF-35
6. F-14D Tomcat
7. Rafale "M"
8. Su-37 Super Flanker
9. Su-27 PD Flanker
10. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
11. F-16CJ Block 50
12. JAS-39 Gripen
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 09:30 AM by waynos
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Actually, who says the Raptor has 3D TVC? I'm pretty certain it hasn't.
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 09:38 AM by W4rl0rD
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Actually the Raptor's engines will allow it to go up to mach 2.8, but at mach 2.1 the Raptor's stealth coat will actually melt.
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 10:00 AM by waynos
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Sorry? Was that intended as some sort of reply to my question or were you just making a point?
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 11:00 AM by Hockeyguy567
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 Originally posted by W4rl0rD
My rewritten list:
1. F-22
2. Eurofighter Typhoon
3. Su-30 MKI
4. F-15C AESA
5. JSF-35
6. F-14D Tomcat
7. Rafale "M"
8. Su-37 Super Flanker
9. Su-27 PD Flanker
10. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
11. F-16CJ Block 50
12. JAS-39 Gripen
I would definatley put the AESA equipped F-15 above the Su-30MKI, its systems and radar are far inferior, and you might as well take the Su-37 off the
list because all it really is a shell with a flight control system.
[edit on 30-12-2004 by Hockeyguy567]
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 11:45 AM by GrOuNd_ZeRo
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I would definatley put the AESA equipped F-15 above the Su-30MKI, its systems and radar are far inferior, and you might as well take the Su-37 off the
list because all it really is a shell with a flight control system.
Yeah, but like stated earlier, the Su-30MKI has the biggest bang for the buck, i'd personally pick the Su-30 above the F-15.
As for the F/A-22A having 3D TVC, this is BS, ever looked at the engine configuration? it's incapable of being a 3D TVC!
Anyway this is from Globalsecurity.org....
F119/F-22 Engine Nozzle
The F119 engine nozzle for the F-22 is the world's first full production vectoring nozzle, fully integrated into the aircraft/engine combination as
original equipment.
The two-dimensional nozzle vectors thrust 20 degrees up and down for improved aircraft agility. This vectoring increases the roll rate of the aircraft
by 50 percent and has features that contribute to the aircraft stealth requirements.
Heat-resistant components give the nozzles the durability needed to vector thrust, even in afterburner conditions.
With precision digital controls, the nozzles work like another aircraft flight control surface. Thrust vectoring is an integrated part of the F-22's
flight control system, which allows for seamless integration of all components working in response to pilot commands.
The nozzle is manufactured at Pratt & Whitney's West Palm Beach facility, home to the company's military engine design and prototype construction.
I am confused about 3D TVC's, I thought the Su-37 had them...I saw it on discovery...
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 11:45 AM by GrOuNd_ZeRo
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Double post! sorry...
[edit on 30/12/2004 by GrOuNd_ZeRo]
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 11:55 AM by devilwasp
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warlord i think you may be mistaken about the engines on the F22, i thought it was mach 2.5 and the YF23 was mach 2.8...
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 02:08 PM by Hockeyguy567
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Yeah, but like stated earlier, the Su-30MKI has the biggest bang for the buck, i'd personally pick the Su-30 above the F-15.
Not quite, the Su-30MKI, may have TVC and has better high aero alpha, but it is not an aerobatics contest. The F-15 has better range, speed, radar,
and missiles. Not to mention F-15 pilots have better situational awareness and pilot training (for the most part).
And i would rank the Super Hornet above the Su-27.
[edit on 30-12-2004 by Hockeyguy567]
[edit on 30-12-2004 by Hockeyguy567]
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 02:20 PM by Seekerof
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Originally posted by waynos
Actually, who says the Raptor has 3D TVC? I'm pretty certain it hasn't.
waynos,
Evidence's for this have already been provided. Su-37 (testbed and/or demonstrator) and the F-22 (production)have true 3D thrust vectoring.
Look through this topic again and the links are given stating thus.
seekerof
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 03:22 PM by roniii259
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Originally posted by waynos
Actually, who says the Raptor has 3D TVC? I'm pretty certain it hasn't.
waynos,
Evidence's for this have already been provided. Su-37 (testbed and/or demonstrator) and the F-22 (production)have true 3D thrust vectoring.
Look through this topic again and the links are given stating thus.
seekerof
Your wrong there buddy, the production F-22 does not have 3D Thrust vectoring only 2D because of stelath considerations and monetary concerns. There
is a movement to develop a stealthy 3D TV for the F-22, but as of now its not happening
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reply posted on 30-12-2004 @ 03:51 PM by Seekerof
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T'was a late night for me Ronii...
No excuse.
I stand corrected. Thank you for the correction. 
seekerof
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reply posted on 31-12-2004 @ 01:44 AM by ChrisRT
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The F/A-22A has 2D TVC... Have you ever seen that thing crab though? It is AWESOME! No other 3D fighter has been seen doing so...
My rewritten list:
1. F-22
2. Eurofighter Typhoon
3. Su-30 MKI
4. F-15C AESA
5. JSF-35
6. F-14D Tomcat
7. Rafale "M"
8. Su-37 Super Flanker
9. Su-27 PD Flanker
10. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
11. F-16CJ Block 50
12. JAS-39 Gripen
That looks like a quality list, though, I'd probably move the Terminator up a spot. The Rafael is smaller and has better ECM capabilities so it has a
better chance at BVR then a huge Flanker.
Also, don’t forget the 2008+ upgrades for the F/A-18E-F. It might take the crown from the AESA F-15C.
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reply posted on 31-12-2004 @ 03:16 AM by W4rl0rD
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Originally posted by Hockeyguy567
Not quite, the Su-30MKI, may have TVC and has better high aero alpha, but it is not an aerobatics contest. The F-15 has better range, speed, radar,
and missiles. Not to mention F-15 pilots have better situational awareness and pilot training (for the most part).
And i would rank the Super Hornet above the Su-27.
Su-27 PD ,aka 2 seater Flanker similar to the MKI,but only not as good,something like a Super Flanker,so it will compare reasonably to a F-18E/F. As
for all those F-15s,i agree on speed and radar superiortity,but firing 3 R-77s (assuming they really miss so much) at further range (65km) is better
than firing one AAMRAAM at 40km. As for range,they are both equal with in-flight refuelling.
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reply posted on 1-1-2005 @ 01:30 AM by Daedalus3
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
My rewritten list:
1. F-22
2. Eurofighter Typhoon
3. Su-30 MKI
4. F-15C AESA
5. JSF-35
6. F-14D Tomcat
7. Rafale "M"
8. Su-37 Super Flanker
9. Su-27 PD Flanker
10. F/A-18E/F Super Hornet
11. F-16CJ Block 50
12. JAS-39 Gripen
Oye !!! no J-10??? Seriously I think its better than a F-14 or F-18 even
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reply posted on 1-1-2005 @ 01:33 AM by Daedalus3
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Originally posted by Hockeyguy567
I would definatley put the AESA equipped F-15 above the Su-30MKI, its systems and radar are far inferior, and you might as well take the Su-37 off the
list because all it really is a shell with a flight control system.
[edit on 30-12-2004 by Hockeyguy567]
Any data to back up that claim about AESA being superior to Su-30MKI systems? Keep in mind that MKI avionics and radar is Al-Israeli and well those
guys are genuises...
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reply posted on 1-1-2005 @ 02:28 AM by ChrisRT
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Originally posted by Hockeyguy567
I would definatley put the AESA equipped F-15 above the Su-30MKI, its systems and radar are far inferior, and you might as well take the Su-37 off the
list because all it really is a shell with a flight control system.
[edit on 30-12-2004 by Hockeyguy567]
Any data to back up that claim about AESA being superior to Su-30MKI systems? Keep in mind that MKI avionics and radar is Al-Israeli and well those
guys are genuises...
From what has been unclassified about the V.2 radar of the F-15C puts it above the N001M of the Flanker. Its ECM systems are said to have the upper
hand also...
Oye !!! no J-10??? Seriously I think its better than a F-14 or F-18 even
Look elsewhere for that... The F-14s systems are only now being beaten by 5th gen air combat fighters. The J-10 is most likely on F/A-18C level. The
F/A-18E-G easily beats it on paper...
Just wait until further stealth features are implemented into the F/A-18E-F-G, stronger engines are installed, AESA radar is installed, and HMS is
implemented...
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reply posted on 1-1-2005 @ 02:35 AM by Daedalus3
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Originally posted by ChrisRT
From what has been unclassified about the V.2 radar of the F-15C puts it above the N001M of the Flanker. Its ECM systems are said to have the upper
hand also...
The N001M of the flanker is russian i presume, my bad for being ignorant if it isn't!
I was talking about the Israeli avionics and radar systems put onboard the Su-30 MKI, at leas the one the Indian AF has. Are those inferior to
american systems?Any data to back that up?
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reply posted on 1-1-2005 @ 02:53 AM by ChrisRT
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Originally posted by ChrisRT
From what has been unclassified about the V.2 radar of the F-15C puts it above the N001M of the Flanker. Its ECM systems are said to have the upper
hand also...
The N001M of the flanker is russian i presume, my bad for being ignorant if it isn't!
I was talking about the Israeli avionics and radar systems put onboard the Su-30 MKI, at leas the one the Indian AF has. Are those inferior to
american systems?Any data to back that up?
I assume it has the same N001M radar. None the less, that radar is absolutely no joke.
If someone doesn’t provide a link for you I will later today/when I wake up. It’s 12:56 AM…
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reply posted on 2-1-2005 @ 12:22 AM by Daedalus3
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^^ Now why would the israelis be using the same N100M radar tech that the russians have? Im sure they would have tweaked it up in soemway if they even
chose to use it. Any data on Israeli radar systems?
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