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The Best of the Best....Air superiority Fighters

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posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 07:18 PM
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The USAF is the best trained, maintained, and supported air arm in the world today. Any real world encounter with a Russian fighter would be over before it began, because American spy satellite/signal intellegence would not allow it to come down to a who-could-out-dogfight-who, but be setting up the kill as the Mig-whatever was clearing the end of it's runway.




posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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any links for this groundbreaking revelation?

Recent russian aircraft have never engaged fully kitted out US planes... so there is no way to really make a decision.

On paper the F-22 wipes the floor... but we can never be certain



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 08:54 PM
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"Groundbreaking revelation"? I assume this is cynicism; I'd refer to practically every issue of Aviation Week dealing with the subject for the last 3 years.
The issue of air superiority has to do with more than the hardware of the individual fighter but what backs it up. More flying time, money, and computer simulation are being spent in America than the rest of the world combined, an investment that pays dividends.
Then there's Chuck Yeager being asked a year ago on NPR if, given the chance, mano-a-mano, which country's jet he'd fly into combat, and he laughed as he said American, without question.
But what does he know?



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 09:36 PM
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Just a little heads-up on the Russian Air Force and Fighter(s) situation(s)...
1999 article, but as has been posted within ATS before, things have not changed but so much since the dating of this article:
Russia Loses its Military Aviation



seekerof



posted on Dec, 23 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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Currently the closest thing to 5th gen Russian fighters is the Su-30 MKI,but thats 4th generation technology.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Currently the closest thing to 5th gen Russian fighters is the Su-30 MKI,but thats 4th generation technology.



Yes, though, no need to talk like its a bad thing... The Flanker is one dangerous beast...

I like it how countries upgrade fighters like the Flanker, F-16, ect. To incorporate newer technology. Its more cost effective then starting an advanced fighter program and often proves successful



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 01:52 AM
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The Isrealis have been doing that for decades,buying F-16s and putting their own avonics and stuff in it. Its basically cheaper then designing something new. The MKI's perfomance comes very close to 5th generation technology,but the airframe is 4th generation (70s Su-27 Flanker,but thats extremely sucessful).Its amazing how well the MKI performs even though it uses the same technology from 30 years ago.



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

Eastern block, you missed the point. I'm sure he was only saying that IF you think the Rafale and Typhoon are virtually the same plane then you would have to say that the MiG 29 and F-15 are the same plane. The point merely being to illustrate that they are NOT.


Not only did he miss the point, but he is totally wrong.



What the hell do you mean I'm totally wrong??? ... When comparing aircraft I would compare the Su 27 to the F-15 and the MiG 29 to the F-16, in both cases the Russian planes have come out on top, and there is proof to back my statements up.
Oh yes and one more thing... what kind of Russian do you think you are??!! an American under cover...???


[edit on 24-12-2004 by eastern_block]



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 08:26 AM
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f-22
Su-30MKI
EF-2000.

The Su-30MKI is 4and half gen.
Its radar , menuverability, 3-D TVC is better than the F-22's.

Its better than the Ef-200 in all areas.

also it costs only USD 22million per unit !!!

more info on : vayu-sena.tripod.com...



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Realist05
The USAF is the best trained, maintained, and supported air arm in the world today. Any real world encounter with a Russian fighter would be over before it began, because American spy satellite/signal intellegence would not allow it to come down to a who-could-out-dogfight-who, but be setting up the kill as the Mig-whatever was clearing the end of it's runway.






And you call youself a 'realist'...Its seems the F/A-22 is the one getting 'killed' before leaving the runway!!

Its this kind of over complacency/bravado of some yanks that sparks anti-american sentimetn throughtout the world amonst other things..



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
f
The Su-30MKI is 4and half gen.
Its radar , menuverability, 3-D TVC is better than the F-22's.

Its better than the Ef-200 in all areas.



And you know this for a fact do you, you clever chap?



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Waynos, I know it's a sensitive subject, so please try to be unbiased, the Typhoon currently have no TVC but is stealthier and could probably shoot down the SU-30MKI at a distance, but in close combat, the SU-30 will probably completely wipe the floor with it...

What capabilities does the ASRAAM have?



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Realist05
The USAF is the best trained, maintained, and supported air arm in the world today. Any real world encounter with a Russian fighter would be over before it began, because American spy satellite/signal intellegence would not allow it to come down to a who-could-out-dogfight-who, but be setting up the kill as the Mig-whatever was clearing the end of it's runway.

Really?
Bold statement, no evidence to back it up though.
The US satalites take ages to get into position , if your lucky you can get it in mabe an hour but less than that? No chance.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
Waynos, I know it's a sensitive subject, so please try to be unbiased,


I absolutely agree with that Ground Zero, hence my comment. The guy stated, for example, "is better than Typhoon in all areas" which is clearly BS whereas you yourself incuded the word 'probably' in your own post. See the difference? Yours was clearly your opinion, which may well be correct. The other was trying to pass itself off as a statement of fact.

For myself I believe that the unstable canard configuration of the Typhoon, amongst others, provides the most agile aerodynamic configuration that exists today, however fighters with TVC are going to be able to at least match and most likely better the agility of any delta canard fighter and so I think the TVC upgrade cannot come soon enough.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
f-22
Su-30MKI
EF-2000.

The Su-30MKI is 4and half gen.
Its radar , menuverability, 3-D TVC is better than the F-22's.

Its better than the Ef-200 in all areas.

also it costs only USD 22million per unit !!!

more info on : vayu-sena.tripod.com...



Oh dear!
Good try none-the-less...



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by Realist05
The USAF is the best trained, maintained, and supported air arm in the world today. Any real world encounter with a Russian fighter would be over before it began, because American spy satellite/signal intellegence would not allow it to come down to a who-could-out-dogfight-who, but be setting up the kill as the Mig-whatever was clearing the end of it's runway.

Really?
Bold statement, no evidence to back it up though.
The US satalites take ages to get into position , if your lucky you can get it in mabe an hour but less than that? No chance.



Historically that statement has held its ground. US pilots, especially USN pilots are superiorly trained in most fields. That isnt to say the European or some Middle Eastern pilots arent up on the U.S.'s par... One cant leave Russian jocks off the list either.

It's also only logical to assume that a satellite can grab a snap of a runway and see if fighters are based there. That is one of the easier parts of planning a war. That isnt to say a non stealthy fighter sweep force wouldnt get picked up and force the enemy to scramble those fighters.

Anyway, the forecast has always and probably will always see a US pilot as the victor. We dont invest in these many exercises and other training experiences for PR



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 07:13 AM
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It's true, many pilots Military and Comercial are trained in the US...

Waynos, I am proud of European developments but I have to make sure people are completely unbiased, I don't think there ever will be a better aircraft since they can excell in all fields...



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by waynos
For myself I believe that the unstable canard configuration of the Typhoon, amongst others, provides the most agile aerodynamic configuration that exists today, however fighters with TVC are going to be able to at least match and most likely better the agility of any delta canard fighter and so I think the TVC upgrade cannot come soon enough.


The sukhoi with a stable airframe is anyday more agile than any delta winged unstable airframe.

besides even if the ef gets its TVC soon, it still cant be half (exaggerated!)as agile as a sukhoi.

true, the ef is slightly more stealthy than the sukhoi, but that hardly makes a difference in long range combat simply because of the 5+ gen radar on the MKI. besides its not invisible to the MKI's radar, it may show up with a negligible RCS reduction, thats all.

the MKI holds 2 pilots giving it an advantage. its cockpit looks great too, unlike the russian sukhois (check out the pics in the link i gave u earlier)

besides the cost factor just kills the EF in this comparision, dosen't it ??
you can have almost 3 bigger, better MKI's for the price of a single EF .

and above all, please dont get me wrong , but i feel i am very unbiased .

no offence meant , but i'd like to see your reply based on facts, not allegations of me being biased.

The most biased thing i've ever known is the best aircraft computer on theis EF fan site : www.eurofighter.starstreak.net...

[edit on 29-12-2004 by Stealth Spy]

[edit on 29-12-2004 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 10:44 AM
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I am slightly biased towards the Russian stuff lately...as people might have noticed...

I do LOVE American stuff though, i'm definitly not Anti-American but I wouldn't mind seeing a change in the American frame of mind...



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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To chrisRT

One thing about satalites, once its gone over its target thats it. You need to wait until it orbits the earth until you can use it again.
Although another satalite may be redirected to watch that area, that leaves the target or are the second satalite was watching in the first place un watched.



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