The Best of the Best....Air superiority Fighters

We don't. Here's a link to a parliamentary inquiry into Australian Air Superiority, where it talks about the change of status of JSF from VLO to LO. Page 3 towards the bottom is the VLO discussion

Link

It points out that there is no recognised standard with regards to stealth terminology, which is why we are currently discussing this. Suffice to say, from an Australian (and I believe US) perspective, SH and Rafale fall into the LO category, while F-22 falls into the VLO.



Ok, I can’t post justification for why I believe what I do, so let’s just move on.




Well, there’s no point arguing then if you are going to dismiss LPI. We have an exchange officer with the Aggressor SQN flying out of Nellis who has flown against the F-22, so I have a decent understanding of how such fights went. But if you don’t agree with LPI, I won’t argue.




And there is no in-service Rafale carrying AMRAAM and Sidewinder. Consistency works both ways. Currently there are no users of Rafale who use AIM-120 and AIM-9, and we have to use this as our base scenario. If the Super Hornet and Rafale were to meet in combat tomorrow, the only scenario is a MICA versus AIM-120/AIM-9X one. Anything else is going down fantasy lane…

[edit on 27-2-2008 by Willard856]

Bingo.

I was just browsing though the post and have the impression that the SH is just a watered down F-22

I said EVEN books.


What do you think the difference in knowledge between proprietary and published work for such things are?


I can tell you it is an awful lot.






What credible evidence?


There is NONE, ZILCH, NADDA... apart from the blind faith of a few people dotted around some forums.


Go check out some of the IEEE journals, there are absolutely loads of papers dealing with detecting LPI radarsets.



[edit on 28/2/08 by kilcoo316]

Indeed.


But the Rafale could carry a full AMRAAM load-out tomorrow if needs be.


The S-H could not carry a full 120D loadout as the things aren't gonna be around till 2010.

see here (pdf) page 18/59

I find it hard to just pin the blame on people on these forums when they are subject to the promotion material and propaganda that has come from Boeing regarding their plane. What else do you expect them to say and if the person that posts that information doesn't have the insight to look into the situation or when other info comes up refuses to look into, then that is your problem with them at that point. Not the info thats Boeing fault and misleading remarks just like Northrop has done and Lockheed and Suhkoi etc. Yes we can then debate tech specs and our sources but it strikes me and more and more pointless and endless debate due to the fact that the internet doesn't provide the best forum for this type of debate per say. Anyways continue to have fun with the ridiculously long thread.

reply to post by kilcoo316

---

How could Rafale carry a full loadout of AMRAAM tomorrow? I didn't realise the French had bought it.

I'm not an aviation engineer but to me it seems logical that small is good...
When it comes to sportscars there is no way a MB SL AMG is as good as a Lotus Exige througt tight corners, no matter the MB has +600BHP and the Lotus has like 200BHP. Why? The Lotus wheighs 900kg and the MB +2000kg. Light meens tight turns. Quite logical to me. Compare to fighter jets cutting through thin air? It should be the same. In figures that is low wing loading and as high T/W as possible, AND low weight to that. There is no way I can see that a F22 is as responsive as a JAS 39 Gripen, if considering the above, but what do I know? What do you think? Not trying to be offensive, just suspicious...

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Here is my FAVOURITE top 5:

1: SU 27SM (Man, iff you see the pics then you see a prom queen from heaven)
2: SU 35BM (Bring it on!)
3: Rafale (Much better looking then EF and F18 SH)
4: MiG 35 (F16/F35`s please look at your six )
5: Gripen (So small yet so deadly)

Here is what REALITY top 5 would be:

1: F 22 (think off a Modernised F15 with TVC and stealth and other crapload off stuff)
2: SU 35BM (It only lacks stealth and other lil features, so it just misses the nr 1 spot)
3: EF 2000 (Almost number 2 spot but it lacks TVC and long service length for the airframe to prove itself)
4: Rafale (Its a darn good thing that beats the F18 SH and the SU 30/33 hands down)
5: MiG 35 (A darn good plane with proven airframe design)

Feel free to comment on my SECOND top 5.

Cheers

Would you happen to have any links for these documents?

Thanks in advance.

[edit on 27/8/2008 by C0bzz]

Not public - there are literally tons of papers. LPI has been around since the 80s, so there is nearly 30 years of public work in the area.

You can bet that the various manufacturers are far ahead of published work.

Here is a few if you can get hold of them.



Interception of LPI radar signals
Schrick, Gerd; Wiley, Richard G.
IEEE 1990 International Radar Conference


Computer-aided methods of the LPI radar signal detection and classification
Grishin, Yury; Janczak, Dariusz
Proceedings of SPIE - The International Society for Optical Engineering
2008, vol. 6937, p 69373O


Detection and parameter estimation of LPI signals in passive radar
Tang, Xiaoming; Jiang, Benqing; Zhang, Caisheng; He, You
CIE International Conference of Radar Proceedings 2006

I have to tell you, there are quite a few Marine aviators and Navy pilots that would disagree with you there.

F-22
F-35
Eurofighter
F-15/SU-35
Rafale
Gripen/F-18/F-16/MiG-29
Mirage 2000

1. F-22

2. Su-35

3. Typhoon

4. F-15

5. Rafale

1. F 22
2. SU 30
3. Eurofighter
4. Rafale
5. MIG 35