The Best of the Best....Air superiority Fighters

yeag the raptor is computer(sort of) controlled.as i said before i dont think a typhoon will survive raptor(thats what you say.(ghostbr55) )i dont think the raptor is a bad plane.but i also have a few personal favorites you know.and obviously i ought to like them better than others.and i do look for good planes.(specially the manuverability and speed.)not much of the stealth.but lately seems as i have been taking a lot of intrests in that topic.and guess what seems as my personal favorite can be equipped with plasma stealth technology(5th genration)now there are a lot of planes wich can outdo anything than a raptor.so before you make your list next time take a look at all of the planes flying in the world.check them then change your list if you like it.

and by the way your 5th generation is filled with us and european planes.try adding more planes aroundv the world by adding i mean changing try it out iven the iranian thunder seems to outt perform the super hornet so check the world before making your list!!!!!

still no post war.seriously!!!and i mean it too dont take it as a joke.

[edit on 23-9-2006 by phsyco]

Originally posted by psycho
and by the way your 5th generation is filled with us and european planes.try adding more planes aroundv the world by adding i mean changing try it out iven the iranian thunder seems to outt perform the super hornet so check the world before making your list!!!!!

Maybe because the US is the only country that has an operational 5th generation aircraft with another definitely on the way? And the Europeans have a lot of good planes in operation, such as the Typhoon. As for your comment about the Iranian fighter I don't need to say more.

Also, personally I see no reason why the F-35 shouldn't be in the top three. It's indented to be a multi role aircraft, it's features such as LO, avionics/sensors, and weapons will make it a VERY formidable aircraft in BVR, IMO second only to the F-22.

even the FC-1/JF-17 is a multirole fighter.it aint only the f-35.there are a lot more planes than the 35 wich is multirole. how about the gr.4 tornado.its also a multirole.
or maybe tornado types.not the gr.4.and also the fifth generation fighter mig 1.44.
and about the list the su-27 can match the f-15 so your fifth generation should have a 6th plane ghost.
and guess what.you also need to add the su-47 at this rate(because you have never test flied it agaist another fighter.)so same to the berkut and the rest of th su family(not below su-27)

I think i remeber reading kilcoo's guesstimate, and i must say i agree with him. The 1.8 figure is most probabaly the Supercruise figure

The Raptor is definately the most impressive platform out there, so it absolytely deserves its place in the TOP-5. And i think most ppl here will agree it is on top of tht list.

But the rest of the list is open to debate

Oh and ghost.....since u seem incapable of accepting any constructive criticism i suggest you atleast refrain from blowing your own credibility to bits with every post. If only you heard what other more experienced ppl have to say, u might actually learn something. Remember God gave you 2 ears but only 1 mouth

raptor does mach.2 not that suprised but suprised.so by the way. as i said it does have more multirole crafts(the world is what i meant by it)i would even put the mig-31 in the list.super radar speed what the plane end up in 6th.it can detect a raptor.one of russias impressive planes(it aint going to be just that if it wasnt for the countrys financial diffficuties)future might be packed with planes wich can shoot raptors too.you can never be too sure can you?

so the raptor info i got also says something wich i hadnt noticed.

A Joint Estimate Team was chartered in June 1996 to review the F-22 program cost and schedule. JET concluded that the F-22 engineering and manufacturing development program would require additional time and funding to reduce risk before the F-22 enters production. JET estimated that the development cost would increase by about $1.45 billion. Also, JET concluded that F-22 production cost could grow by about $13 billion (from $48 billion to $61 billion) unless offset by various cost avoidance actions. As a result of the JET review the program was restructured, requiring an additional $2.2 billion be added to the EMD budget and 12 months be added to the schedule to ensure the achievement of a producible, affordable design prior to entering production. The program restructure allowed sourcing within F-22 program funds by deleting the three pre-production aircraft and slowing the production ramp. Potential for cost growth in production was contained within current budget estimate through cost reduction initiatives formalized in a government/industry memorandum of agreement. The Defense Acquisition Board principals reviewed the restructured program strategy and on February 11, 1997 the Defense Acquisition Executive issued an Acquisition Defense Memorandum approving the strategy.

The Quadrennial Defense Review Reportwhich was released in mid-May 1997, reduced the F-22 overall production quantity from 438 to 339, slowed the Low Rate Initial Production ramp from 70 to 58, and reduced the maximum production rate from 48 to 36 aircraft per year.


The F-22 EMD program marked a successful first flight on September 7, 1997. The flight test program, which has already begun in Marietta, Georgia, will continue at Edwards AFB, California through the year 2001. Low rate production is scheduled to begin in FY99. The aircraft production rate will gradually increase to 36 aircraft per year in FY 2004, and will continue that rate until all 339 aircraft have been built (projected to be complete in 2013). Initial Operational Capability of one operational squadron is slated for December 2005.

The F-15 fleet is experiencing problems with avionics parts obsolescence, and the average age of the fleet will be more than 30 years when the last F-22 is delivered in 2013. But the current inventory of F-15s can be economically maintained in a structurally sound condition until 2015 or later. None of the 918 F-15s that were in the inventory in July 1992 will begin to exceed their expected economic service lives until 2014.

www.fas.org...




[edit on 24-9-2006 by phsyco]

(edit to add working link to source)

[edit on 24-9-2006 by pantha]

Originally posted by puneetsg
I think i remeber reading kilcoo's guesstimate, and i must say i agree with him. The 1.8 figure is most probabaly the Supercruise figure

The Raptor is definately the most impressive platform out there, so it absolytely deserves its place in the TOP-5. And i think most ppl here will agree it is on top of tht list.

But the rest of the list is open to debate

Oh and ghost.....since u seem incapable of accepting any constructive criticism i suggest you atleast refrain from blowing your own credibility to bits with every post. If only you heard what other more experienced ppl have to say, u might actually learn something. Remember God gave you 2 ears but only 1 mouth

puneetsg quit it already, who here made a comment that was more experienced than me? Physco? HAHAHAAH Physco is one of the most unexprienced characters ive seen yet. Westpoint is very experienced but yet he seems to agree with me? GO FIGURE!

I thought we've all agreed that you had no credibility! The moment you start putting yourself on a pedestal the way you just did, is the moment everyone decides not to listen to what you have to say. Just keep that in mind the next time you go onto a board such as this with far more intelligent people and start bolstering your false intellect.



Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by phsyco
yeag the raptor is computer(sort of) controlled.as i said before i dont think a typhoon will survive raptor(thats what you say.(ghostbr55) )i dont think the raptor is a bad plane.but i also have a few personal favorites you know.and obviously i ought to like them better than others.and i do look for good planes.(specially the manuverability and speed.)not much of the stealth.but lately seems as i have been taking a lot of intrests in that topic.and guess what seems as my personal favorite can be equipped with plasma stealth technology(5th genration)now there are a lot of planes wich can outdo anything than a raptor.so before you make your list next time take a look at all of the planes flying in the world.check them then change your list if you like it.

and by the way your 5th generation is filled with us and european planes.try adding more planes aroundv the world by adding i mean changing try it out iven the iranian thunder seems to outt perform the super hornet so check the world before making your list!!!!!

still no post war.seriously!!!and i mean it too dont take it as a joke.

[edit on 23-9-2006 by phsyco]

-Physco > "yeag the raptor is computer(sort of) controlled.as i said before i dont think a typhoon will survive raptor(thats what you say.(ghostbr55) )"

What in the hell are you talkin about?

-The planes you like have speed and Manuverability? Well buddy, the F-22A features that and more. Man you act like the only thing a F-22A has is Stealth, this is becoming a joke.

- Your favorite plane can be equipped with Plasma? I hope your talkin about the imaginary PAK-FA? Plasma stealth is very skecthy right about now and is only in devlopment < might never be created < And that goes for the PAK-FA too.

Also i read the PAK-FA is a counter of the F-35.

-What are these planes that can out do anything a raptor does? Man you dont no ur A$$ from your elbow.

-My list is perfectly fine in every way possible. It includes all the NEW and Modern A/C which obviously come form EUROPE, USA and RUSSIA. Which in my eyes USA is FIRST Europe Second and Russia third.

I dont need to include planes from all around the world > i should add planes like soko galeebs because u think its necessary to be diverse? COME ON!

As for ur Super Hornet comment well no comment .

And dont say "no POST war seriously" because you leave vast open spaces of DUMB A$$ in your posts.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
I thought we've all agreed that you had no credibility! The moment you start putting yourself on a pedestal the way you just did, is the moment everyone decides not to listen to what you have to say. Just keep that in mind the next time you go onto a board such as this with far more intelligent people and start bolstering your false intellect.

Shattered OUT...

Who said i have no creditability? You? And whyd i lose creditability because i think a F-15 is better than a SU?

West if you think i dont know what im talkin about ill leave this POST forever.

You know, you're very new here, and you really don't know who the veteran members are and who knows what they're talking about, but I'm going to let you know that all of the smart people stopped posting in this thread and I'm about to follow. Really the only two people arguing is you and psycho, and pyscho I'll admit is a bit lost, but that may just be because he takes english as a second language and we are not understanding his grammer but that's alright because many other members have that too, which is why we, including you need to approach him with an open mind of understanding.

No one is against you because what you put down about the F-15 against the Su is BS, we are against you because you promote yourself as an all knowing aircraft-god. And don't say I'm putting words in your mouth because if you go back to your own posts you'll see what I mean.

I haven't argued the facts you put down, but I have argued your opinions that you sell as facts, we are allotted our opinions, but please make an attempt not to bolster your opinions as fact.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that the F-22A and F-15 aren't great aircraft, they are, and the F-22A especially being the ultimate fighter out there, but some us just believe that there are more capable aircraft than the F-15, is all.

Shattered OUT...

no ghost your taking what you had to your dump.you say that your better than any one else.ghost once in a while you put your dammned mouth everywhere and ruin it.so shut it.your blabber is not wanted. and for the part "who posted a better comment than me Pshyco?"
youll never no. maybe i did.moron.and to tell you the truth.your younger than the four year old neighbour of mine.

so bug off only west point gets in to get your back.nothing else.hes got more respective than youll ever be abled to get.guess what hes the one reviving you arfter your frontline is destroyed.

your no one.and youll never be one for the rest of your life even if you start now.too bad.its a little too late for you.by the way i do belive that i could get enough knowlege about planes will quite soon.youll never gain any respect from anyone but westpoint23.

hes the only one who runs around you to keep yourself being dumped.if you cant explain it you call westy.
its too late ghost. a little too late............................

and for everyone else.sorry i got into a lot of pressure there.
please belive me.

especially you shatterd skies.................



[edit on 24-9-2006 by phsyco]

I've really had enough of this ridiculous OFF TOPIC banter.

Both of you need to sit back and reflect on how silly this argument has become.

Now, please stop with the BS and stay on topic, both of you, before the red flags start to appear.

[edit on 24-9-2006 by masqua]

Hey i know im new to this Forum but i have alot of experience with A/C information, I live in NYC and ive been studying A/C for a while.

I have to agree with Ghostbr55. He seems to know what hes talkin about. Ghost if i have to say so, you know alot more than everyone else thinks but you approach in a very barbaric manner. Also i think that Phsyco is lost in the A/C world and i can see why Ghost is getting so frustrated. Shatter also Ghost isnt posting opinons as facts, you dont have to belieave me but its all so real.

But Ghost relax "Its all good baby baby" - B.I.G

Im looking foward to this Forum and its community.

5th Generation A/C
1. F-22A
2. F-35
Only 2 real 5th Gen A/C

5th Generation for forum
1. F-22A
2. F-35
3. EF-Typhoon
4. Dassault Rafale - Dont know if RAF should be 4th or 5th, someone give me an opinion.
5. F-15C/SU-35 - (Debatable but my choice F-15)

4th Generation
1. F-15C Eagle
2. F/A-18E Superhornet
3. SU-35
4. F-16AM
5. MIG-29


LOL probably pick the wrong side of the TRACK.


[edit on 24-9-2006 by ACGoDZ]

i think its time i surrendered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
guess that its all behind us
if you accept it

ACGoDZ
thanks for the peaceful comment.by the way dont go"i know a lot about aircraft"
thats one good reason why everyone didnt belive ghost for the time being

[edit on 24-9-2006 by phsyco]

Originally posted by phsyco
i think its time i surrendered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
guess that its all behind us

if you accept it

ACGoDZ
thanks for the peaceful comment.by the way dont go"i know a lot about aircraft"
thats one good reason why everyone didnt belive ghost for the time being

[edit on 24-9-2006 by phsyco]

Well that doesnt make sense now does it? Should i say i dont know anything about A/C to get you to bealive me??? LOL im only kidding. Phsyco for the future dont tell people what they should or should not say, just talk about the forum and

There shall be peace in our time.

*Does anyone know about the F-15K having Thrust Vectoring?? Is it going to incorporate the Technology Demonstarted by the F-15 ACTIVE? Globalsecurity.org stated that there was a 4.2 trillion dollar FX competition for Koreas new NEXT generation fighter.

*USA won the competition against the EF-Typhoon, French Raf and the SU-35. Does that mean the F-15E or the New F-15K are on the same leve or exceed Europes and Russia new generation fighters?

* The pay load of the F-15K actually exceeded all of its competitors.

* Also a little bit off my own topic, the FB-22 looks like it will be amazing vs any Fighter/Bombers outhere but does anyone know its future or its Payload?

Edit >>>> it will be able to hold 30 small diameter bombs which one diameter bomb is equal to a 2000 pounder. Amazing~~~!!!

www.globalsecurity.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.globalsecurity.org...




[edit on 24-9-2006 by ACGoDZ]

Well the F-15K is going to South Korea and I do not believe that it will have Thrust Vecotring as demonstrated on the F-15MTD/ACTIVE platform.

Now on the FB-22 note, how big would they need to make the FB-22 in order to carry 30 2000 pound SDB's? That means it would have atleast a payload of 30 tons, but where will they fit all the bombs? On wing pylons?

If the F-15K was worked off of a F-15E airframe, then I'm not the least bit suprised it's payload exceeded that of all it's competitors(even though I'm not sure what competitors there were). The F-15E has a payload of 40,000 pounds which to me is amazing for a fighter-bomber, that's almost as much as the B-2's payload.

Well, the USA won the competition with South korea possibly because of the support the US has given South Korea in the past, South Korea possibly feels safer with taking something American built as it is possibly more reliable than something Russian or European, but it doesn't mean that the F-15K super-exceeds the capabilities of the European and Russian built aircraft, even though it might be easier to maintain and more reliable. There is no doubt that the F-15 is an amazing airframe, but for me the EF-2000 Eurofighter would have possibly met South Korea's needs better despite it not having such a large payload as the F-15K(which ever that may be).

For me, IMO the eurofighter platform is simply a newer, better airframe and would have suited the South Korean's needs.

Shattered OUT...

(mod edit to remove unnesessary quote of previous post)

[edit on 25-9-2006 by pantha]

Shatter

* GBU-39 SDB are not 2000 pounds each there 250. But there equal to the damage of 2000 pound bombs (such as GBU-24).
* Also the stated competitors were the EF-2000, Das Raf, SU-35 and the F-15E and actually the SU-35 and the EF-2000 were knocked out in the first round. In the end the South Koreans felt that the F-15K was simply better. I trust the SK for choosing this A/C for they did put the 4 competitors threw very vigorous tests
* The F-15K is getting many upgrades

1. APG-63(v)1 radar
2. Latest in cockpit displays, navigation, early warning and other systems.
3. Ability to perform low-altitude precision-strike missions in virtually any weather. (like the F-15E)
4. No F-X competitor can match the F-15K payload capacity.
5. Advanced TIGER Eyes Sensor Suite.

Globalsecurity.org STATES

"TIGER Eyes will provide these aircraft with enhanced targeting, navigation, terrain following and Infrared Search & Track (IRST) capability. An evolution of LANTIRN and US Navy’s IRST air-to-air threat-detection technology, TIGER Eyes enables fighter aircraft aircrews to fly and engage the enemy day or night, in good weather or bad. In addition to supplying the targeting pod, navigation pod and IRST system hardware, the award includes training, spares, and logistic support."

The Typhoon is a very formidable fighter but the FX competition proved it not to be versatile.

www.globalsecurity.org...

www.globalsecurity.org...



[edit on 24-9-2006 by ACGoDZ]

You know i totally agree with the South Koreans choosin the F-15K as there Fx Next-Generation Fighter. Even though the F-15 is a 30 year old airframe it was built ahead of its time with its first competitor being a MIG-29.

I could still see F-15 matching with Rafs, Typhoons. Though they shouldve added the Tech from the ACTIVE, its still a monster even 30 years later and about 10 new fighter competitors.

Originally posted by ACGoDZ
Shatter

* GBU-39 SDB are not 2000 pounds each there 250. But there equal to the damage of 2000 pound bombs (such as GBU-24).

Don't know much about the GBU-39 and I have never read up on it, so when I first heard you talk about it, I completely misunderstood, thanks for clearing that up for me.

* Also the stated competitors were the EF-2000, Das Raf, SU-35 and the F-15E and actually the SU-35 and the EF-2000 were knocked out in the first round. In the end the South Koreans felt that the F-15K was simply better. I trust the SK for choosing this A/C for they did put the 4 competitors threw very vigorous tests

I wasn't sure on the details of the competition as I've never even heard of this competition, thanks for sharing, I find it interesting how the EF-2000 fell out short.

Shattered OUT...