The Best of the Best....Air superiority Fighters

Originally posted by phsyco
allright westpoint23 tell you what.all im saying here is i havent seen much proof dont worry.ill wait to ghostbr55's answer.ghotbr55 says that its only manuverable at low speeds.maybe hes right or hei s wrong.

Yet another derivative of the Su-27 family is the Su-37. The Su-37 design incorporates the canards and digital fly-by-wire control system of the Su-35 but also adds axisymmetric steerable nozzles to provide thrust vectoring capability.
The resulting design achieves a level of super-maneuverabilty unmatched by any contemporary fighter. A test pilot reported that the controls are so effective that the aircraft can recover from spins and stalls at almost any altitude. Although the Russian Air Force has shown great interest in the remarkable abilities of the Su-37, it is somewhat doubtful that any will be acquired due to the nation's financial difficulties.
The aircraft may see more success in the export market, which Sukhoi is actively pursuing.

i got this from fly mig.com su-37 technical data.
atleast i hope that now you would belive me.I dont give up

Wow you keep posting the same thing without explaining any of it. What you posted shows absolutely nothing. We already know that the Su-37 has TVC, FBW, and canards.

I have no doubts that the F-22 can go toe to toe with the Su-37 or any Flanker for that matter, in a dogfight. I would rate them about equal in that respect. Does that really matter much? No. The F-22 would blast the Su-37 out of the sky before it managed to know what hit him. End of story.

If we are talking about the best air superiority fighter, the one at the top of the list is the F-22.

[edit on 6-9-2006 by JFrazier]

It is true that the F-22A is just about the most advanced and most capable fighter on the planet(I measure "capable" to the ability to shoot down any other enemy aircraft without even being seen).

However, if an F-22A fell into WVR with a Super Flanker, the Super Flanker would win, it's just more manueverable than the F-22A.

But when it comes down to it, the F-22A would come out on top for the single fact that it is just generally a better fighter, maybe not a more manueverable one, but in the end, I don't think the margain error makes a difference, it comes down to the pilot in a WVR contact.

So yeah, the F-22A is a better aircraft overall, there's no doubting it, the Su-37 has some pluses, but not enough to make it better.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by phsyco

originally posted by westpoint23
You think he's lying? He knows more about fighter aircraft then all of us combined so I'll take his word for it. Forgive me but I wouldn't put it past the Russians to strip their air show aircraft of anything unnecessary for the demo flights.
west point 23. if ghotbr55 knows more about fighter aircraft than all of us combined belive me hell lose the bet.if i found info that he had never searched for i take the lead and if all the others combined we would have skyrocketed to another universe.so now i ask you the same thing.how did ghostbr55 know better than all of us combined???
Think again.as i said i dont give up until i lost everything or gain everything by becoming the victor of the war.now.CHECKMATE!!!!!!!!
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1. Westy was talkin about an F-22A squadron commander.
2. Relax

What makes u so sure you know more about fighter aircraft than me?
Is it because i root for the fighter thats clearly better?, I need to clearly know what info you read that seems i havent.

What proof do i need to show you about an SU-37 Superior Manuv is only at low speeds??? Every single time anyone here talks about an SU-37 Manuv is in WVR engagements. WVR engagements are always low speed cleary. Its not like the SU-37 performs its DEMOs at subsonic, mach or mach 2. This is all common sense.

Your the kinda person who would belieave Encarta if it said pandas lived to be 200, but if a Panda Researcher left a qoute saying "from my 30 years of research pandas live to be 20" thats not good enough?

ASK your self this > Does an SU-37 perform a "Jack Knive" at Mach?

Uve lost everything....

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
It is true that the F-22A is just about the most advanced and most capable fighter on the planet(I measure "capable" to the ability to shoot down any other enemy aircraft without even being seen).

However, if an F-22A fell into WVR with a Super Flanker, the Super Flanker would win, it's just more manueverable than the F-22A.

But when it comes down to it, the F-22A would come out on top for the single fact that it is just generally a better fighter, maybe not a more manueverable one, but in the end, I don't think the margain error makes a difference, it comes down to the pilot in a WVR contact.

So yeah, the F-22A is a better aircraft overall, there's no doubting it, the Su-37 has some pluses, but not enough to make it better.

Shattered OUT...

Why would an Super Flanker win? why couldnt they both get shot down or the F-22A win? Im 100 percent sure WVR is more than just MANUV.

Yes Ghost in my post, I did point out that when it comes right down to it, in WVR the pilot is really what matters when you have two super-manueverable aircraft, atleast that's what was my intention.

Now I think America has the better Trained Pilots than an enemy with Su-37, am I correct in assuming this?

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 6-9-2006 by ShatteredSkies]

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Yes Ghost in my post, I did point out that when it comes right down to it, in WVR the pilot is really what matters when you have two super-manueverable aircraft, atleast that's what was my intention.

Now I think America has the better Trained Pilots than an enemy with Su-37, am I correct in assuming this?

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 6-9-2006 by ShatteredSkies]

Gotta say i was mis lead on your first post MY BAD, i assume your correct in assuming that America has better training < JUST an ASSUMPTION

1. F-22 Raptor ( I really hate saying this...)
2. Eurofighter EF-2000 Typhoon
3. Su-35 Super Flanker (And if the Russians manage to put it into full production, the Su-37)
4. (Unsure of make) Rafale
5. Saab Grippen

[edit on 9/6/2006 by Darkpr0]

Originally posted by Darkpr0
1. F-22 Raptor ( I really hate saying this...)
2. Eurofighter EF-2000 Typhoon
3. Su-35 Super Flanker (And if the Russians manage to put it into full production, the Su-37)
4. (Unsure of make) Rafale
5. Saab Grippen

I'll agree with this list except I'd switch out the Gripen for the F-15K. The Gripen is a great fighter but in the air superiority role you need a lot of power, missiles, gas, and a big radar more than anything else.

OT: Waht's wrong with the -22?

[edit on 6-9-2006 by JFrazier]

Forum List

1. F-22A
2. F-35
3. Typhoon
4. SU-35 or SU-37 < if operational
5. Raf

Old School

1. F-15c
2. F/A-18E
3. SU-27
4. F-16 AM
5. MIG-29

[edit on 6-9-2006 by GhosTBR55]

Originally posted by GhosTBR55
Forum List

1. F-22A
2. F-35
3. Typhoon
4. SU-37
5. Raf

Neither the Su-37 or the F-35 belong on this list.

Originally posted by JFrazier

Originally posted by GhosTBR55
Forum List

1. F-22A
2. F-35
3. Typhoon
4. SU-37
5. Raf

Neither the Su-37 or the F-35 belong on this list.

I think the F-35 has alot of Potential

GlobalSecurity.org states

"The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will be:

Four times more effective than legacy fighters in air-to-air engagements
Eight times more effective than legacy fighters in prosecuting missions against fixed and mobile targets
Three times more effective than legacy fighters in non-traditional Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance (ISR) and Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses and Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD/DEAD) missions
About the same in procurement cost as legacy fighters, but requires significantly less tanker/transport and less infrastructure with a smaller basing footprint "

-Theres also 3 versions F-35A CTOL, F-35B STOVL and F-35C Carrier.
-This plane has Stealth.
-Most powerful single engine.
-Avoinics including radar are off the charts.
-Holds exactly 8 Air to Air missles (not sure if more) which is the same amount of an F-15c.
-Its multi Role < not important for Air Superiorty but its a nice extra.
-Bigger bombload than a F-15E.
-about Mach 1.5 / Mach 1.8+
(~1,200 mph) < nice speed for a lil guy.
-Probably not the best guy for WVR but Hey its all ABOUT THE BVR BABY!

Hey their are plenty of countries who have implemented F-16C and F/A-18C and have been very successful.

This ones plain and simple > If you are a country like Slovania, Italy, Czech, etc who cant afford to buy a whole bunch of fighters that are made for specific roles

I agree that the F-35 definitely belongs on the list, in BVR the F-35 will be a monster, second only to the F-22. It has stealth, powerful radar, probably the best overall sensor/avionics mix ever on a fighter and great SA along with good weapons. Sorry but unless I see something really impressive from the Tiffy and or Flanker/Mig series the F-35 is in the top 3 IMO.

[qoute]ASK your self this > Does an SU-37 perform a "Jack Knive" at Mach?

Uve lost everything....

Originally posted by JFrazier

Originally posted by phsyco

west point 23. if ghotbr55 knows more about fighter aircraft than all of us combined belive me hell lose the bet

He was talking about an F-22 squadron commander. You lose the bet.

BY A LONG LONG LONG SHOT JFRAZER!!!!!BY A LONG SHOT!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please drop the caps

[edit on 7-9-2006 by masqua]

BY THE WAY .HOW OLD ARE YOU.WEST PONT 23 AND GHOTBR55.AND WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU FROM???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
please drop the caps


[edit on 7-9-2006 by masqua]

Originally posted by phsyco
[qoute] GHOTBR55.
SEEMS THAT I UNDER ESTIMATED YOU. I LOST THE BATTLE ALONG WITH THE WAR.GUESS THIS ARGUMENT ROOM CAN COME TO A CLOSE.AND I DO HAVE TO SAY A FEW THINGS.1)IM REALLY SORRY.2)EXPLAIN ME EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT A RAPTOR.3)I DROP MY KING TO THE GROUND.(|-CHECKMATE-|)and i exept the check mate.BY THE WAY CAN A RAPTOR DO A JACK KNIFE.AT MACH SPEED!!! I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF THIS POST WORLD WAR WOULD END AND WE BE BACK TO NORMAL!!!

AND I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THE SQUADRON LEADER.

No a F-22A cant do a jack knive at Mach but thats my point. But i gaurntee that above Sub Sonic a F-22A is more Manuv than any Flanker.
Wars been over just relax and post. Honestly if u wanna know everything about an F-22A just go on the internet.


NEW YORK CITY

Chill wit CAPZ









[edit on 7-9-2006 by GhosTBR55]

BY THE WAY .HOW OLD ARE YOU.WEST PONT 23 AND GHOTBR55.AND WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU FROM???

I'm in my late teens and I live in Northeastern United States.

PS. You shouldn't type in all caps.

I have to add that I see a F-35 coming in at least 5th place in WVR. Its high thrust to weight ratio, small fighter in general, with 40,000 pounds of thrust on tap, new avoinics and AIM-9X missles. It seems it will be formidable. If anyone has opinions on it being at least 5th or more (or less) please post.

Originally posted by GhosTBR55
I have to add that I see a F-35 coming in at least 5th place in WVR. Its high thrust to weight ratio, small fighter in general, with 40,000 pounds of thrust on tap, new avoinics and AIM-9X missles. It seems it will be formidable. If anyone has opinions on it being at least 5th or more (or less) please post.

I'm just curious what the max achievable AoA on the F-35 is, I am aware that it does not have Thrust Vectoring, but it is a medium sized fighter.

It's also more of an attacker/multirole than anything else, I don't think the F-35 was designed from the ground up for air superiority as the F-22A was, which is why the two would work together in-cognito perfectly. As for it being placed, I don't know, we'll have to wait and see, because only time will tell the better of them all.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by GhosTBR55
I have to add that I see a F-35 coming in at least 5th place in WVR. Its high thrust to weight ratio, small fighter in general, with 40,000 pounds of thrust on tap, new avoinics and AIM-9X missles. It seems it will be formidable. If anyone has opinions on it being at least 5th or more (or less) please post.

No AIM-9X even on the board right now. It's also a pretty heavy plane, not small in the least bit. The TWR probably will not be good as the Typhoon(weighs more than EF) or the Raptor.

Basically, the F-35 has potential but it doesn't belong on this list because we have no idea how it will turn out. There's probably still 6-8 years worth of testing to go. The Su-37 doesn't belong on the list simply because it doesn't exist anymore.