It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

I'am renouncing my faith to the Divine Holy Spirit!!!

page: 3
12
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 02:54 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon

6 When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan[c] was there among them. 7 The Lord asked him, “What have you been doing?”

Satan answered, “I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth.”

8 “Did you notice my servant Job?” the Lord asked. “There is no one on earth as faithful and good as he is. He worships me and is careful not to do anything evil.”

9 Satan replied, “Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it? 10 You have always protected him and his family and everything he owns. You bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country. 11 But now suppose you take away everything he has—he will curse you to your face!”

12 “All right,” the Lord said to Satan, “everything he has is in your power, but you must not hurt Job himself.” So Satan left.

www.biblegateway.com...

The account of Job is a perfect example of God allowing one of His saints to be tested by the devil. Job bore all his trials patiently and “did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing” (Job 1:22). However, the account of Job’s testing is proof that Satan’s ability to tempt us is limited by God’s sovereign control. No demon can test or afflict us with beyond what God has ordained for His perfect purpose and our benefit.
Most comforting of all, we know that God will never allow us to be tested beyond what we are able to handle and in all things will provide a way out of the test (1 Corinthians 10:13). This does not mean He will remove the trial from us. Why would He when He says trials are for our benefit? Rather, the “way out” is the way throughthe trial, with Him ever faithful by our side, until we come out on the other side of it by His grace and power, stronger and more mature Christians.

Read more: www.gotquestions.org...




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:00 PM
link   
The OP probably should of been a bit more respectful. But all you old timers jumping in here and bullying the OP just because you do not like what the OP says. Should be ashamed. Oh.....and saying that an atheist would jump in on a positive religious thread and bash a christian. Is not a good excuse. You are just letting a bully turn you into a bully.




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: karmicecstasy
The OP probably should of been a bit more respectful. But all you old timers jumping in here and bullying the OP just because you do not like what the OP says. Should be ashamed. Oh.....and saying that an atheist would jump in on a positive religious thread and bash a christian. Is not a good excuse. You are just letting a bully turn you into a bully.



i dont view the op as a bully. i think the person has ran into the dilemma that is reached when you find you can't hold two opposing concepts in your head at the same time without lapsing into cognitive dissonance.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:06 PM
link   
a reply to: karmicecstasy

I'm not an old timer... I'm 28. I'm not ashamed of anything I wrote and I challenged his dialogue and tone, he has every right to refute anything i claim and I have a right to my opinion. And yes, this is ATS people throw poo at each other in every thread that has anything to do with religion, faithful and atheist



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:06 PM
link   
Wow, the lord ordered the witch burnings at Salem? I must have missed that book of the bible...



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:13 PM
link   
The early posts in the thread show predictable hostility towards folks poking holes in (or describing breaking with) a dearly held belief system... i.e. (most forms of practiced) organized religion.

Group think, cliques... sigh... if such a belief stood on it's own, such defensive reactions would not be necessary.

Dogma is bad... and is collectively stifling us... and actually killing some of us.

God doesn't need teams and a cheer squad.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:13 PM
link   
a reply to: undo

I'm not exactly sure what parts are causing the dissonance though. Really, the whole thing seems to be a rant more than a fully thought out and developed series of thoughts. I'm wondering why it hasn't been moved there.




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:14 PM
link   
a reply to: ccseagull


The account of Job is a perfect example of God allowing one of His saints to be tested by the devil. Job bore all his trials patiently and “did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing” (Job 1:22). However, the account of Job’s testing is proof that Satan’s ability to tempt us is limited by God’s sovereign control. No demon can test or afflict us with beyond what God has ordained for His perfect purpose and our benefit.


thats called entrapment and here in a democratic society it is considered illegal.

lets say that there is a police officer nearby when you are suddenly accosted by a rude and violent youth in search of your handbag's contents. rather than promptly apprehending your assailant, the police officer calmly observes until you finally relinquish your possessions and watch them disappear, along with the bandit, down the street. turning, tears in your eyes and fists still clenched with frustration, you clear your throat and politely thank the officer for doing exactly nothing, earning favor in the report he makes to his superiors. after an increasingly more ridiculous string of events involving woefully pale excuses and cold indifference, both on the part of your ever-gracious governmental authorities, you are left without family, home, or even a penny in your pocket. and still, not a word of imprecation do you allow to even cross your mind. and as reward for your unfaltering loyalty to Old Glory, even in the face of unadulterated abuse and bedlam, you awake one day to find a check for $50,000 dropped in your lap. your window of opportunity to replace your home, family, and income. unfortunately, no number of 0's on that check can replace the scars those wounds left behind. equally unfortunately, the "government" cares little about your scars. it cares only that it has made sure you remain its property...in both body, and mind. you are helpless, it will whisper. you are useless without me. to others and to yourself. but i can help you. i can help you, if you just pass this test...

a modern reimagining of the tale you described.

edit on 25-2-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-2-2015 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:21 PM
link   
a reply to: 3n19m470


Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”



Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”


What you are saying there as a God´s order but you forgot that God gave us free will. What happened in Salem was people interpretation of the current time and fear, people used their free will.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:21 PM
link   
We could interpret the OP's thread as a cry for help in the midst of his/her spiritual confusion.
Perhaps understanding, sympathy and advice would help the OP much more than knee-jerk confrontation or criticism.



I'am renouncing my faith to the Divine Holy Spirit!!!


...could be a 'Freudian slip'.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:27 PM
link   
a reply to: dollukka

People really push that religion controls everyone but fail to take into account that free will is fundamental to Abrahamic religions.

No one forces you to follow a radical preacher or imam, no one forced anyone to kill in the name of Christ

God doesn't force anyone to do anything, good or bad



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:28 PM
link   
a reply to: ccseagull

Right... now lets examine this claim you just posted from a normal perspective...


Most comforting of all, we know that God will never allow us to be tested beyond what we are able to handle and in all things will provide a way out of the test (1 Corinthians 10:13). This does not mean He will remove the trial from us.


So a man losing his children isn't "beyond what we can handle"... and not just one but several...

And for what purpose?

So this so called god can show a fallen angel that job is loyal to him... Because proving something like that to Satan is important at the expense of a loyal servant... right?

Sounds like this so called god got scammed by "the adversary"... so who is the wiser in this situation?


This does not mean He will remove the trial from us. Why would He when He says trials are for our benefit?


Right... And how did this whole situation benefit Jobs servants... and his sons and daughters who lost their lives because this so called god needed to sport his pride?


Rather, the “way out” is the way throughthe trial, with Him ever faithful by our side, until we come out on the other side of it by His grace and power, stronger and more mature Christians.


I would say its a damn good thing Job is nothing but a story and not reality...




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: undo

I'm not exactly sure what parts are causing the dissonance though. Really, the whole thing seems to be a rant more than a fully thought out and developed series of thoughts. I'm wondering why it hasn't been moved there.



oh many many maaaaaany examples, such as jesus' treatment of women vs. most of the old testament. jesus treatment of humans in general vs most of the old testament. loving your neighbor as yourself whilst simultaneously not cutting him/her any slack or allowing room for error. i get the feeling there is so much information being with held from us as a species right now, that we are literally not guilty of the crimes levelled against us, at least, not to the degree some would presume.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: 3n19m470


Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”



Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”


What you are saying there as a God´s order but you forgot that God gave us free will. What happened in Salem was people interpretation of the current time and fear, people used their free will.


apparently, philosophical hangups carry more weight than pragmatism. no wonder we lean on science these days.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: ketsuko
i get the feeling there is so much information being with held from us as a species right now, that we are literally not guilty of the crimes levelled against us, at least, not to the degree some would presume.

I get that feeling, too. It will always be true though, that each individual has responsibilities towards their fellow. Some things just should not happen, and it pains me that they do. The trouble is...there is some serious MK going on so there is a bit of a problem regarding accountability. Well, the way I look at this is that if somebody stoops so low as to commit a terrible sin; let it be that they regret, remorse and repent before their final day is upon them.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 04:01 PM
link   
a reply to: TzarChasm

Hey there TzarChasm!

Good example. Very good.

The only thing I can say to that is that no matter the circumstances that I have been through in life - all the terror, pain, trials, abuse and thoughts of suicide - I can see how God carried me through each painful step and I can see how I grew. Call me crazy but my faith is stronger, my joy is greater, my awareness of how fragile as a human I am. I can see exactly after the fact how the big puzzle of God's actions have been put into place.

Also, God's ways are not our ways. God is supernatural and he obviously used one of his human creations as an example to his adversary the devil, another supernatural entity.

And coming from my belief system of what is on the other side, once I reach Heaven then nothing that ever happened on this earth will matter to me because it will be just a momentary blip of time and I will exist in the real reality. We are just humans in the flesh and are cut off from the spiritual so we look through a veil and don't understand most of what's going on.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 04:02 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon

You could just as easily see it as the Devil whining to God that He had shown unfair favoritism to Job and that was the only reason that Job had prospered and the only reason that Job was faithful. We know the Devil is free to work his will in the world to a certain extent so God said, "Fine. Do your worst, but you'll see that Job's faith is honest and true."

So the Devil shows unfair favoritism to Job on his end and Job suffers, but His faith in God never wavers.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 04:05 PM
link   
a reply to: TzarChasm

And if you think that science doesn't have its own share of philosophical hang-ups, you're just as crazy as you would paint a person of faith to be.

Look at all the people of science who were jeered at for going against the prevailing orthodoxy of their time before later being proven right.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 04:06 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

SO this god is concerned about what a creation of his that disobeyed him, and got the boot from heaven whines about?


makes perfect sense...



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 04:07 PM
link   
ATTENTION

Talk about the topic and not each other.

Do not reply to this post.
Thank you.

Continue in a civil manner please.



new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join