The Truth about Atmospheric Methane and it's Role in Global Warming

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Rezlooper

From what I have read so far, your work is thorough and makes the actual point that I was alluding to. Namely that methane actually does have the capacity to cause atmospheric warming.

Additionally, you recognize that a primary source for its release is the frozen methane on the sea floor.

What I have been complaining to my green friends about is that no interventionist legislative maneuvers could ever provide relief. We must think about how to ameliorate its effects, not destroy our economies for no reason.

That's how I feel about it as well. No amount of carbon taxes isn't going to solve this problem. Sure, reducing our carbon emissions is a good thing, but it's not what's going to stop this runaway train. Some very serious measures have to be taken now, on a global scale, and I just don't see how we're going to get governments of the world to act on it and quickly, because too much has been vested in the CO2 debate and to now admit that there is a more real threat...well, how would that go over?

I should clarify. I am glad that the governments of the world have embarrassed themselves, the solutions to problems have never come from government anyway.

If the primary source of methane is not under the control of humans, the solution must be conceived of outside of normal human activity (that is to say, capturing farts will do nothing to stop the methane from the ocean).

The sort of solutions which would be necessary would be at the geoengineering level and I rarely hear anyone discuss it.

The idea that keeps coming up when I think about it is to mine the frozen methane before it is dislodged (if potential releases could be anticipated). This has all sorts of risks not least of which being a major accidental release but, it is a possibility.

I feel the same way. Only something big is going to stop what's already begun. Mining the frozen clathrates is scary. There's literally just too many gigatons of methane down there and like you said, what if we accidentally kickstart the Clathrate Gun Hypothesis.

I actually believe the government knew about all this way back in the 1980's when those lakes in Cameroon erupted gas and killed a couple thousand people living nearby. They may have seen something coming then because this happened in 1986 and within 10 years the Chemtrail conspiracy started up. They may have started geoengineering then to reflect the sunlight. As I mentioned earlier, the rising methane levels since the start of the Industrial Age then leveled off in 1997 for nearly 10 years. This was just a few years after chemtrails started up. At the time, they credited Asian aquaculture improvements for the leveling off, but IDK. Anyways, the methane release stayed level until 2007 when it started escalating all over the globe and in a big time hurry. Why did it start again? That's the greatest mystery.

Here's a link to that lake in Cameroon that killed 1,700 people

How did Lake Nyos kill 1,700

originally posted by: Metallicus
Could this trapped methane be captured and used as an alternative fuel source? It would be nice to be able to harness this vast reserve and turn it into a positive.

Well, some governments are working on it but I think Japan is the furthest along.

Methane hydrate extracted from the Sea of Japan

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Rezlooper

From what I have read so far, your work is thorough and makes the actual point that I was alluding to. Namely that methane actually does have the capacity to cause atmospheric warming.

Additionally, you recognize that a primary source for its release is the frozen methane on the sea floor.

What I have been complaining to my green friends about is that no interventionist legislative maneuvers could ever provide relief. We must think about how to ameliorate its effects, not destroy our economies for no reason.

That's how I feel about it as well. No amount of carbon taxes isn't going to solve this problem. Sure, reducing our carbon emissions is a good thing, but it's not what's going to stop this runaway train. Some very serious measures have to be taken now, on a global scale, and I just don't see how we're going to get governments of the world to act on it and quickly, because too much has been vested in the CO2 debate and to now admit that there is a more real threat...well, how would that go over?

I should clarify. I am glad that the governments of the world have embarrassed themselves, the solutions to problems have never come from government anyway.

If the primary source of methane is not under the control of humans, the solution must be conceived of outside of normal human activity (that is to say, capturing farts will do nothing to stop the methane from the ocean).

The sort of solutions which would be necessary would be at the geoengineering level and I rarely hear anyone discuss it.

The idea that keeps coming up when I think about it is to mine the frozen methane before it is dislodged (if potential releases could be anticipated). This has all sorts of risks not least of which being a major accidental release but, it is a possibility.

I feel the same way. Only something big is going to stop what's already begun. Mining the frozen clathrates is scary. There's literally just too many gigatons of methane down there and like you said, what if we accidentally kickstart the Clathrate Gun Hypothesis.

I actually believe the government knew about all this way back in the 1980's when those lakes in Cameroon erupted methane and killed a couple thousand people living nearby. They may have seen something coming then because this happened in 1986 and within 10 years the Chemtrail conspiracy started up. They may have started geoengineering then to reflect the sunlight. As I mentioned earlier, the rising methane levels since the start of the Industrial Age then leveled off in 1997 for nearly 10 years. This was just a few years after chemtrails started up. At the time, they credited Asian aquaculture improvements for the leveling off, but IDK. Anyways, the methane release stayed level until 2007 when it started escalating all over the globe and in a big time hurry. Why did it start again? That's the greatest mystery.

Here's a link to that lake in Cameroon that killed 1,700 people

How did Lake Nyos kill 1,700

Hmm, you are requiring me to delve into the chemtrail thing which I had hoped upon hopes to avoid.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Metallicus
Could this trapped methane be captured and used as an alternative fuel source? It would be nice to be able to harness this vast reserve and turn it into a positive.

Well, some governments are working on it but I think Japan is the furthest along.

Methane hydrate extracted from the Sea of Japan

I wonder if the underwater cities are connected in any way to plans for sea floor mining?

a reply to: greencmp

Ha ha, I feel the same way. I try to avoid that topic, but I did dedicate a chapter to it in the book because I think it's something that seriously has to be considered and they may have already done that decades ago.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

Mankind faces a major problem. These numbers should alarm all the skeptics but it’s still basically ignored despite plenty of science to back it up. Their argument is to pretend that man couldn’t possibly be responsible for global warming and that we give ourselves too much credit because mother earth has been here for billions of years. Well, in the last 400,000 years, we’ve never seen the numbers like they are now and all this only a mere 250 years after humans began the industrial age.

Do you really think there is any hope at all that 'mankind' will accept the truth of this? Because in the last couple years, people I know who had been concerned about global warming have begun totally minimizing it as any sort of 'threat' -
- case in point: We have this Engineer neighbor who spent years working on and promoting (in his spare time!) alternatives to gasoline (even converting a car into driving on used cooking oil) and who then bought a Prius the 'debut' year - This guy recently went out and bought a huge SUV (as big as a Hummer!), and it's not even a hybrid!!

Meanwhile, my husband and I both drive Prius's and refinanced our house in order to convert to solar power...and in his words, "We didn't do it to save money, we did it to save the world." (Too little, too late, I guess).

I mean, I live smack in the middle of 'Suburbia' USA (mini-van driving soccer moms and all), and I can tell you that unless the 'stuff' in your book starts to actively impede on their lives (in hugely inconvenient ways), no one is going to have the slightest clue about it's existence, regardless how absolutely the science backs it up - heck, most of these people don't even follow what passes for 'mainstream' news these days...and we're not talking about the uneducated 'masses' here...
...The government would probably have to post it on bill boards lining the highway for anyone to notice anything about it, and even then they'll figure it's just due to some sort of agenda by alarmists...Worse, they'd probably just assume it was advertising for the latest disaster movie!

Question:
Would you be able to 'guestimate' a timeline, of sorts, showing the progression of the results (world effects) of this 'methane' global warming in relation to the ways that it will affect the 'average' american's life over the next 5 - 10 or so years?

I mean, at what point will people who are not 'looking', be forced to 'see' the things that are going to begin happening?

My daughter is in high school and has long planned to pursue a career as a Zoo Keeper (she was so excited to find out that the top rated university to get the degree is only a couple hours away from us)...

.....given all that you know - how many more years is such a career even going to 'exist'?

a reply to: Rezlooper



It goes up and down throughout the ages. The earth will renew itself again.

a reply to: Shadow Herder

That's CO2 you're presenting. Methane changes the game. Read through the thread a little more thoroughly and you'll see that methane gas it the true threat, the real initiator of atmospheric warming and we're seeing methane levels higher than in the past 400,000 years. Mankind hasn't lived with these sorts of levels of methane at all, so no one can seriously answer whether we'll still be around when the earth does renew herself.

originally posted by: lostgirl

originally posted by: Rezlooper

Mankind faces a major problem. These numbers should alarm all the skeptics but it’s still basically ignored despite plenty of science to back it up. Their argument is to pretend that man couldn’t possibly be responsible for global warming and that we give ourselves too much credit because mother earth has been here for billions of years. Well, in the last 400,000 years, we’ve never seen the numbers like they are now and all this only a mere 250 years after humans began the industrial age.

Do you really think there is any hope at all that 'mankind' will accept the truth of this? Because in the last couple years, people I know who had been concerned about global warming have begun totally minimizing it as any sort of 'threat' -
- case in point: We have this Engineer neighbor who spent years working on and promoting (in his spare time!) alternatives to gasoline (even converting a car into driving on used cooking oil) and who then bought a Prius the 'debut' year - This guy recently went out and bought a huge SUV (as big as a Hummer!), and it's not even a hybrid!!

Meanwhile, my husband and I both drive Prius's and refinanced our house in order to convert to solar power...and in his words, "We didn't do it to save money, we did it to save the world." (Too little, too late, I guess).

I mean, I live smack in the middle of 'Suburbia' USA (mini-van driving soccer moms and all), and I can tell you that unless the 'stuff' in your book starts to actively impede on their lives (in hugely inconvenient ways), no one is going to have the slightest clue about it's existence, regardless how absolutely the science backs it up - heck, most of these people don't even follow what passes for 'mainstream' news these days...and we're not talking about the uneducated 'masses' here...
...The government would probably have to post it on bill boards lining the highway for anyone to notice anything about it, and even then they'll figure it's just due to some sort of agenda by alarmists...Worse, they'd probably just assume it was advertising for the latest disaster movie!

Question:
Would you be able to 'guestimate' a timeline, of sorts, showing the progression of the results (world effects) of this 'methane' global warming in relation to the ways that it will affect the 'average' american's life over the next 5 - 10 or so years?

I mean, at what point will people who are not 'looking', be forced to 'see' the things that are going to begin happening?

My daughter is in high school and has long planned to pursue a career as a Zoo Keeper (she was so excited to find out that the top rated university to get the degree is only a couple hours away from us)...

.....given all that you know - how many more years is such a career even going to 'exist'?

Hey Lostgirl. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I have four children ages 5, 3, 2 and a newborn, so yes, those thoughts of their futures is constantly on my mind and it hurts. It's a sad fact that most people downplay global warming and don't take the time to seriously consider what's truly happening. If more people did pay attention, we may have collectively come together a long time ago and demanded some changes. But, those changes would have needed to start with each one of us and sorry to say, "if it ain't in our backyard, then it ain't our problem" and that's the way it is. Now, I believe it's far beyond individual changes unless everyone on the planet changed their habits tomorrow morning and completely stopped polluting, using fossil fuels and eating beef, etc. It's just not going to happen. I'm not saying to stop or people shouldn't start, of course, everyone should do what they can and good for you and your husband in your efforts.

We're to the point now where it's going to take global action from governments around the world. And what's scary about that is how do we know mankind can get it right in the first place without screwing something up and making things worse, or accelerate faster than it is already occurring.

About your neighbor, the engineer, it's a sad fact that the money being spent to convince the world that global warming is all hogwash is succeeding. Damn shame.

About the timeline: In the past historical record of warming and glacial periods, it's coming out now that these massive changes occurred over the course of a few decades, then took thousands of years to correct itself. Global warming has been a slow trend since the start of the Industrial Age and speeding up a little bit more last century. But, in the last ten years, heat records have been pretty consistent. The hottest years in 150 years of record keeping have been the last 10 or so years. Eventually, the release of methane gas was inevitable with this slow warming trend. Who knows if it was man made or some natural cycle, the fact remains that it's happening now and the release is like nothing we've seen before, and this all started abruptly in 2007. Since that time, anyone who pays attention can see that many phenomenon and strange events have started roaring like volcanoes increasing. Over the past two years there have been over 80 volcanic eruptions (above ground) each year when the average was around 50 to 60 per year. And even that average has raised from a couple hundred years ago. Small quakes, sinkholes and other land subsidence events like cracking and slipping has also become very common compared to just ten years ago. There are many others, like weather extremes, that are noticeable now. This much has already happened in just the last 8 years.

I'm guessing that within 3 years, the masses will be demanding the answers the government may already have. It's going to be hard to ignore because it won't be long that just about everybody will have been affected in some way or another from at least one or two of these phenomenons. Just take a look at how many people are experiencing these loud booms, something they say they've never heard before. I've yet to hear one.

I'm guessing that within 10 years or so catastrophes will escalate to levels unheard of and mass casualties will become the norm.

IMO, and this is my opinion because no one can truly know how this is going to play out, but we may have just have another 10 years after that to get off planet or build dome cities to block out dangerous and flammable gases and control temperatures. Some people suggest going underground and that might work and is probably something the government is already pursuing, but at the same time, how safe could that be when such a large part of what we are facing is in the form of earthquakes, sinkholes, land subsidence events and methane exploding out from below. These quakes aren't happening along fault lines either, they are happening within crustal plates far away from any tectonic boundaries. So how do you choose where is safe to go underground.

Well, if all this is true and does play out like this, and we manage to build dome cities, then you can look at the bright side. Your daughters career may become one of the most important jobs in that future, that of a zookeeper, because of our obligation to preserve animal life.

a reply to: Rezlooper

Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a well thought out, thorough, and caring reply!!

I am not a 'religious' person, but I do pray in hope that doing so could, in some way, be helpful - so for what it's worth...

...I will add your family, in particular your children, to my prayers.

a reply to: lostgirl

It's worth more than words can say. Thank you very much.