Stealth might be Overrated

a reply to: gariac

And yet everyone is building front line aircraft that are stealth. So you're saying that in the event of a major war they're essentially useless. And yet China and Russia are building fighters and bombers. I guess they're only planning on attacking the third world huh.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: yuppa

what happens when you start venting your gas/liquid out the side of your drone and there is a HUGE cloud of super cold gas lighting up IR detectors(in reverse)

If its just a drone you press self destruct. lol.

a reply to: yuppa

seriously just made me lol



I needed that

a reply to: yuppa

Unless of course it's a CIA aircraft, in which case they think really hard, "This is not the drone you're looking for", because they took out the self destruct system.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: yuppa

Unless of course it's a CIA aircraft, in which case they think really hard, "This is not the done you're looking for", because they took out the self destruct system.

Dang zaph. made me spit my coke all over the monitor.lol. I needed that.

a reply to: yuppa

its all fun and games till someone drops a X-wing out of the sky.

a reply to: yuppa

well you can add a simple 3 layer coating to the drones. bottom layer insulates it from the drones skin. in the middle liquid oxygen or nitrogen,and then the top layer seals it.

It won't work! FLIR does not only detect "warm" object. They "see" the difference in equivalent temperature (temp * emissivity). You can have a scene with every object at exactly same temperature, but each object being different, they will have different equivalent temperature.

A MIL grade FLIR can detect as low as its specified NET (Noise Equivalent Temperature). Those gen 3 based on FPA can goes very very low in NET (classified). Last time I was involved, I evaluated new FPA based on QWIP, very sensitive tech...

On a FLIR you will see those equiv. temp. difference as image contrast. A cold plane will appear as a cold object against its background. To give a hint, typical NET is a very small fraction of a deg. C!

a reply to: PeterMcFly

BAE systems has a FLIR spoofing skin cover. It can look liek any heat source or the surrounding area. couple that with invisibity cloaking and you have a perfect assassins weapon.

a reply to: yuppa

Believe me, you will never be able to perfectly reproduce the very exact equiv. temp. of the background, especially if it is a clear sky (cold background). I have worked with these MIL FLIR, you can't hide from them, at least not in an uncluttered background!

And any plane must "vent" some heat, even if you put the motor above fuzelage, you produce a nice propulsion plume, highly visible on a FLIR, even if you dilute it with cold air.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

the BAE system is is talking about is reallllly good at hiding a tank, there is a very very ghostly outline but it works very well.

a reply to: penroc3

Aircraft have a lot more heat to hide. You have friction on the leading edges, engine exhaust, and other sources that a tank doesn't. Not to mention flat out higher temps.

Public info from Wiki:

"Cooled photon detecting infrared detectors using materials such as HgCdTe (LWIR or MWIR) or InSb (MWIR) can approach a NET figure of 10 mK."

Noise-equivalent temperature

Minimum resolvable temperature difference

a reply to: Zaphod58

ohh I agree with you that the BAE system is not usable on a aircraft yet. I was just responding to the other post about it existing



I would think that it would be obvious that you cant just slap a few panels that heat/cool off on a air craft and think your good to go. what about the jet of hot bass coming out the back, cant put panels on that.

now maybe it would work on a lighter then air craft but even that is questionable.

a reply to: penroc3

What would a IR missile do if say the heat signature was all over the place? like randomly moving all over the aircraft? Would it confuse it to the point it could lose its lock?

Airforce next gen statement...defensetech.org...

a reply to: Zaphod58





interesting looking aircraft

originally posted by: yuppa

what happens when you start venting your gas/liquid out the side of your drone and there is a HUGE cloud of super cold gas lighting up IR detectors(in reverse)

It doesn't work that way unless your cold gas has a major absorption cross section and there was something warm behind it. IR detectors for military purposes are not designed to measure properties of the atmosphere that much.

And your targeting software doesn't respond to these either, because they're the same as that thing known as "clouds" but smaller.

Umph. I know what he's talking about...probably.

I am surprised that he is dancing around the TS mulberry bush, but I've seen some tangential on-purpose leaks and lately a couple of overt direct blowouts so I guess the thing is about to creep into the mainstream news.

You guys have gotten some of it from me VERY indirectly and I've seen a couple of threads that discussed the basic physics but didn't state what it was FOR. No one popped so I guess the ATS community doesn't know. At least that's what I generally take that to mean when I drop jelly beans to see if someone replies.

Have to give her some thought. It is new stuff, definitely. Better than ice cream and puppies, and sort of up my alley. Surprise!

et: your first pseudo-leak is that it's currently a LockMar specialty. Love them skunkies. hell, they've even got a open world patent from what I hear, haven't checked it out.

a reply to: Bedlam

Can you link/hint/point out any of these tangential on purpose leaks- assuming they are in the public domain and not from you?

In terms of "Stealth" and hiding heat signatures- we know there are Meta Materials that can convert light to heat so why cant there be a material that converts heat to light then electricity ...some sort of Thermophotovoltaic Meta Material closed system.

spie.org...

Cover your stealth craft in it -paying special attention to areas that generate heat from friction, bury your engines within the craft and manufacture an outlet that maximises heat contact, collect the energy in high density batteries (power onboard systems from it) and (intermittently) direct any additional Heat derived electricity into space away from your adversaries in some sort of power hungry, directed energy beam.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
a reply to: Bedlam

Can you link/hint/point out any of these tangential on purpose leaks- assuming they are in the public domain and not from you?

Might have to put one of my magnum opuses on RATS.