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Father, Son, and.... MOTHER! (not Holy Spirit)

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posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: Sahabi

I agree, the more industrialized our world has become, the more important it has become for them to suppress the feminine aspect.

When the world was less industrialized we saw goddesses alongside gods, but once we started to grow in population and density to one another, the more they saw it necessary to hide her so they could take advantage of her (because of population density/industrialization).

More people, more need for resources, more need to hide their "raping" of Earth in order to provide for the growing population.




posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: Sahabi

Oh wow, I just realized something... Jesus wasn't crucified on a cross but more likely a POLE! What if Jesus being crucified on a pole is him being crucified on an Asherah Pole? The cross we have today is actually representative of the Asherah Pole, so Christianity has hidden goddess worship within their symbolism and doctrine. Maybe another clue to them hiding the feminine aspect right in front of us?

Jesus dying on the pole is symbolism for the image (Son) dying or leaving the body or "Asherah" upon death of the body. Jesus' death represents our own death, sins from this life being "forgiven" before we are resurrected in a new body through reincarnation. Reincarnation is the mechanism for forgiving sins of past lives. Our "robes" are washed white and we are given a clean slate through reincarnation.

Jesus coming back in the same body, nail wounds and all, represents the corruption of what the resurrection actually represents, he did not come back in a new body but the same one. This is representative of the churches corruption and perversion of the truth.

Interesting stuff!



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: guitarplayer

You call the Holy Spirit a "he" just like I do. That would mean you believe the Trinity is strictly male.

How can life be created without a feminine aspect in the mix? Can two guys have sex and create a baby? Nope.

This is what the bible means by "man lying with man", it's a representation of what religion does, it claims that two men (Father and Holy Spirit) can somehow create life (Son).

When someone believes what the church teaches (man lying with man) they are committing adultery. They have replaced what the true bride (Mother Earth) teaches with that of what the adultress (church) teaches.

Man lying with man is the Spirit (Father) within you agreeing with the teachings of the church, who is actually male-dominated but claims to be the bride. Both adultery and "man lying with man" wrapped into one package.


OK lets start with this one statement the true bride (Mother earth) No where in the bible does it say that the earth is the bride of Christ. It does say that the body of Christ will one day be wed to Christ as the Bride of Christ. You ask for respect yet you do not respect the plain laguage of the bible. You come up with these ideas from the power of your mind not the teachings of the bible. You ask for respect yet you do not respect the bible itself.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: guitarplayer

The Song of Solomon is a good place to start. It's a love story between Solomon and his "bride". The bride in Song of Solomon is continually described with nature, flowers, pastures, etc. It is describing Earth being the bride. "Christ" is the Spirit of God, the Spirit is married to the bride (Earth/body) for as long as you live, which is why marriage ceremonies are ended with "til death do us part" and then the kiss. Once the marriage is official, the veil is lifted and the face of the bride is revealed. The veil can be lifted right now, the bride's face revealed, and the marriage of your Spirit and body realized; all you have to do is look within and you'll see. Once you die, the Spirit leaves the body and only the body is left, hence "til death do us part".

You may say it is describing the church but the church did not exist in those days.

It's all symbolism for what we experience right now. The bible describes YOUR nature, what you are made of, only through symbolism and metaphor. The bible isn't meant to be taken literally.
edit on 2/24/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/24/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:31 AM
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originally posted by: Eunuchorn
If there is a god, she better not reincarnate me in this hellhole we call Earth.





posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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a reply to: guitarplayer

If the Holy Spirit is female how did she impregnate Mary?

With god magic? Wait... do you then believe Yahweh literally had sex with Mary?

*Edit: Never mind I saw your other post.


Just like a vet impregnating a cow the vet did not have sex with the cow.

This analogy doesn't quite work. Unless god used a holy turkey baster.
edit on 25-2-2015 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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What do you think of Wisdom? Proverbs says if you believe in HER she will keep and perserve you. She will say eat this bread and drink this wine.

Some Christians believe that she is the Holy Spirit.

Sophia means Wisdom in Greek .



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:33 AM
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You make a good point. Look at the natural world - there are plenty of resources for everyone. But man comes along, takes what belongs to everyone and then sells it back to us for a price -

why not cover up the fact that the Earth, as a mother, provides for us all? Doing so allows the elite to sell to us what we already own. I recently came to understand why the Native Americans thought it was silly that the White Man wanted to buy their land. The natives understood that the land was not for sale, it was free for anyone.
edit on 25amWed, 25 Feb 2015 03:35:14 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:58 AM
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a reply to: darkbake

Perfectly said! Unfortunately the media promotes money and those who have the most of it as "good" so they learn to love the prostitution of Earth (putting a price tag on Nature which is naturally free)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: arpgme

We gain wisdom through our experiences here in Earth if we see her for who she truly is in my opinion. Earth is what gives us wisdom, the older you are (the more time spent on Earth) the wiser you are considered to be.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 07:18 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

S+F



Is this one of these, suck me in threads lol you knew I would post here, right…?


Btw - My opinions have slightly changed, since our last bout lol


Valentinus, was the original guy who came up with a type of trinity, in his “On the Three Natures” text…

Valentinus is also considered to have authored the “Gospel of truth”, here’s a key verse about the Father, Son and Holy spirit, written in that Gospel.




From The Gospel of truth
The Father reveals his bosom. - Now his bosom is the Holy Spirit. - He reveals what is hidden of him - what is hidden of him is his Son - so that through the mercies of the Father, the aeons may know him and cease laboring in search of the Father, resting there in him, knowing that this is the (final) rest.




The thing is though, we call it the Father, or the Spirit of God etc, but it’s really androgynous, i.e. both male and female…combined…IMO

In fact, in the Valentinian school of thought, the Father has both masculine and feminine characteristics.

The Father’s Spirit is androgynous, and the Son’s Spirit is androgynous also, although in the Gnostic texts, different aspects of the Father, are referred too as feminine, like for example truth and Wisdom etc…

In my view the “Holy Spirit” is clearly outlined/defined in the whole of John 14, although most people don’t seem to be able to see it clearly…Although in those verses I think Jesus was describing as best he could, to an audience which didn’t understand it… I can show it in more detail, if you’d like…

In my own personal view, which has gone through many changes, I believe the Holy Spirit, is what takes place when the Father and Son’s spirit unite together, or possibly more accurately stated, become acknowledged and known etc… The Holy Spirit, is what takes place in-between IMO…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
John 7
38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them."

The Spirit can be equated to wind (the breath God breathed into Adam to give him life), while the Mother can be equated to water (the matrix), as I have already stated. When there is wind and water, "living waters" are created, waves are created.


Yes, the wind and water aspects of the Spirit can be found in many verses throughout the OT, the Holy Spirit was always there and available for anyone, even prior to Jesus coming, although many will disagree with this…

When you receive/awake/acknowledge the Holy Spirit, you will indeed experience rivers of living water within you; just like as if a fountain had been placed into your midsection. There is simply no mistaking this, when, and if, it ever happens to you…hmmm how do I know this lol (read between the lines ppl)




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
John 14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


I once asked a man here on ATS what that verse meant, when I first signed up here to ATS; and he replied that is was through those things, that one comes to the Father, and not by Jesus the person specifically. And that by the phrase “through me”, Jesus meant through his truth, that he spoke and not through Jesus the individual man etc…

I’ve had some time to reflect since then. My view for some time now is that Gnosticism was the original form, which became distorted by the early RCC which didn’t understand the mysteries etc…I also think that just like the Gospel of Thomas, most of Jesus original words were most likely a collection of his sayings, long before they were ever put into a story style format…just my opinion of course…

In short, I think many of Jesus teachings/sayings were originally meant to be recited by the individual reading them, from their own perspective…Which would mean that that John 14:6 verse, would be about the individual reciting it, and how by finding the Son within themselves, they could also find the Father as well…hence, no one comes to the Father, except through The SON…


Peace be with you


- JC



edit on 25-2-2015 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 08:27 PM
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The fact is being “older” does not equate to being wiser.Being older only causes you to have more experiences than when you were younger.What is “learned” from those experiences is not wisdom because wisdom is not learned it is a state of being.The fact is most people grow more reactionary(set in their ways) as the grow older and do not change/ “repent”.

It is usually easy to tell when someone is going through the wisdom “changes” because they are idealistic (and scattered) and believe they have figured “it” out.However this is not wisdom…it is ignorance.The fact is they have not got it figured out at all they only believe they do…and the more they believe they do the more reactionary they become not wise.

What I enjoy and respect about some people(sadly very, very few) is they are willing to accept the fact they are a dilettante. People like the great physicist Neils Bohr are anomalies.He was a certified genius yet always saw himself as a dilettante.That enabled him to make brilliant breakthroughs because he did not think conventionally and reactionary.

The most common thread in people that are in their religious carnal mind is their adherence to their doctrine.That they have “doctrines” is the dead giveaway.Their doctrine is strongly grounded in their extreme confirmation bias.They will not allow new thoughts to break through that bias because it will destroy their theology and the God they have meticoulsly made in their own image(even when they don’t believe they believe in a God!).

It is very painful to witness.I understand why some atheist act like they want to just put these poor folks out of their misery(and get them out of their hair!).As a wise person(or persons) said.”

A person convinced against their will[theology,philosophy,psychology etc, etc] is unconvinced still” and as the wise man saint Paul(Simon) wrote…”all lies in jest, still a man only hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest”.

Two brilliant pieces of wise advice that is never heeded by those that believe they are wise.Wisdom is the elusive specter that as soon as you try to look for it .... it disappears.The fact is a wise person is never aware of being wise they only “are” wise.Wisdom never seeks itself or sees itself.To seek after wisdom is vanity of vanities as Solomon said(...eluded to and paraphrased) and that is the only reason he was wise.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

Thanks for joining in brother.
And yes, please do share your views on John 14, your input is always appreciated.

Bosom is another word for womb or breast etymologically, both feminine aspects. Earth is the "womb" that we are developed in. The "Holy Spirit" in the Gospel of Truth is the Mother, I think that the Gospel of Truth may have been trying to restore the true meaning of the term "Holy Spirit" that was corrupted by the church, which is why it explains that it is the bosom (womb). Maybe it uses Holy Spirit in order to make that connection to the Mother? As I said in the OP, I believe the church used two names for the Father in order to erase the Mother, so maybe the gnostics knew this and were restoring its original meaning? Just a theory.

I still believe the term Holy Spirit should be seen as the Father, but maybe I am jumping to the wrong conclusion. The Spirit is invisible, so I cannot see it as being what is visible (the Mother) at this point in my understanding, but that is always open to change, as is almost everything in my theology if the right information is presented.

Another theory I am considering is that the Holy Spirit is actually another term for God, the Holy Spirit is the Father, Mother, and Son wrapped into one. "Whole"y Spirit in other words, all three aspects being in agreement (whole) as John says. They pushed the Mother out of the equation and replaced her with a term for all three. That's a possibility as well but I am still working out some kinks.

edit on 2/25/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 08:58 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

To add to the last paragraph, the original meaning (before Christianity) of "holy" was "that which is whole or intact" which kind of supports the Holy Spirit being all three (whole). So the Holy Spirit is that which is whole or intact, a.k.a. all three (Father, Son, and Mother) together, a.k.a. God.

This seems to be a good possibility the more I delve into it. The premise of my OP is still basically the same though, the church removed the Mother.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 10:55 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Bosom is another word for womb or breast etymologically, both feminine aspects. Earth is the "womb" that we are developed in. The "Holy Spirit" in the Gospel of Truth is the Mother, I think that the Gospel of Truth may have been trying to restore the true meaning of the term "Holy Spirit" that was corrupted by the church, which is why it explains that it is the bosom (womb).


Yes, well said, your on to it…it’s described conceptually as a “womb”, because it’s describing a (new) birth taking place, it’s really just descriptive visual language, to help explain it; I hope that makes sense…

But in my opinion the Holy Spirit is only conceptual, as I’ll try to explain further on…It’s the “Spirit of God” coming from the Father, which in a visual sense, gives birth to the Son…which is why I think the term “womb” was used in the past, to help describe it…

In other words, that which is higher, gives birth to that which is Lower; what happens in-between, is termed the Holy Spirit…but the Holy Spirit, isn’t actually a thing that exists on it’s own IMO; it’s really a conceptual word, which describes the meeting between the two, i.e. The Father and the Son…

Incidentally, the “Holy Spirit” in the King James Bible, is more often translated as just “The Spirit of God” about 90 odd per cent of the time, or somewhere near that range…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Maybe it uses Holy Spirit in order to make that connection to the Mother? As I said in the OP, I believe the church used two names for the Father in order to erase the Mother, so maybe the gnostics knew this and were restoring its original meaning? Just a theory.


Actually, it’s more than just a theory, there’s a lot of potential evidence for what your suggesting…The Valentinian Gnostics clearly believed that the Father, was both male and female…

Take the name of God for example; yud-hey-vav-hey which contains both male and female aspects…

Even the ancient Canaanites, once worshiped Yahweh, along side his female consort Asherah…

There are many connections to this truth…





Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I still believe the term Holy Spirit should be seen as the Father, but maybe I am jumping to the wrong conclusion.


Well, the Kings James Bible translation, would agree with you, because the “Holy Spirit” is more often translated as the “Spirit of God”, which is the Father IMO…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The Spirit is invisible, so I cannot see it as being what is visible (the Mother) at this point in my understanding, but that is always open to change, as is almost everything in my theology if the right information is presented.


Well, based on the Gospel of truth, and valentinus, the Spirit of God is androgynous, but seeing as Spirit created matter, I’m not sure why the material world, would be seen exclusively as feminine. Although, like I said in my previous post, the Gnostics used to describe Wisdom and truth, as the Fathers, feminine aspects; so maybe like you say, the material world, should be seen as the feminine too; but I have no knowledge of this myself…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Another theory I am considering is that the Holy Spirit is actually another term for God, the Holy Spirit is the Father, Mother, and Son wrapped into one."Whole"y Spirit in other words, all three aspects being in agreement (whole) as John says.



Yes, this is what I was trying to explain further up, they are all wrapped into one, except IMO there’s really only two, the Father and the Son, the meeting between the two, is the Holy Spirit!

In my next post, I will try to show what the Holy Spirit is, as described by Jesus, in John 14, and how it relates to what I’ve stated in this post…



- JC



edit on 25-2-2015 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Ok here goes...

First Key verse below…just to set the scene…



John 8:17-18
"In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father who sent me."


The above verse is a key verse. And note that Jesus specifically states that there are 2 witnesses. In my view he meant himself (The Son) and the other witness, was God (The Father)…


Next key verse…



John 7:16
Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.


This connects to the first verse above, about Jesus teaching that which comes directly from God. A similar verse is repeated again, in John 14:24 further on…


The Next Key verses, hints towards the identity of Holy Spirit…



John 14:16
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.


Just for clarity in the above, The Spirit of Truth = The Holy Spirit…

Jesus gives a big hint in the above verse, as to who/what the Holy Spirit is…by the phrase, “But you know him, for he lives with you”…Jesus was referring to Himself, and the Father IMO. But when I say he’s referring to himself, he’s also referring to us too. In other words, he’s kinda saying the Father and the Son i.e. Holy Spirit are in me, and one day they will be in YOU too…but the thing is, they are already living in us, we just have to realize, awaken and acknowledge it…

Jesus was really just trying to simplify it, so that people could understand, even though they didn’t completely…


Jesus then reaffirms that He’s talking about the Holy Spirit, by finishing… “and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”…

Next Key verse about the Holy Spirit…



John 14:20
“On that day you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I am in you.”


By “on that day” Jesus is talking about the day, you will receive the Holy Spirit. And he states that when you receive it, you will be in Him, and in The Father, from a spiritual perspective.

Because we are all spiritually one, we will all become aware we are one with each other, including being one with Jesus himself…


Next Key verse about the Holy Spirit…



John 14:23-24
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.


Note verse 24 and that last phrase again, about these words are not my own, but belong to the Father, and is similar to John 7:16 etc... This again shows that there are 2 witnesses, The Father and The Son, which both testify to the truth.

But of course the Father and the Son are in all of us, Jesus was just reminding us of this truth, in a way that people could understand…

But the most important verse, which ties into all the others, is verse 23. In verse 23, Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit again, but this time he states “WE will come to them” Which reaffirms what Jesus was hinting towards, about the identity, of the Spirit of truth, in John 14:17-18.

If you fit all those verses together properly you will see, that The Holy Spirit, is the Father and The Son, both coming to dwell in a person, on the day they come to believe the testimony of both witnesses.

I used to believe that all this meant, that Jesus and the Father, together, were the Holy Spirit…and that they would come to dwell in you when you came to believe in them…

But I now believe that Jesus was trying to make us all one with the Father, by recognizing that we are all Sons of God too, and he knew that whoever connected with his truth, would awaken the Son within themselves, and unite with the Father i.e. by experiencing The Holy Spirit, which is the meeting between the two together…



- JC



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft

So where do our bodies come into the equation in your opinion? I agree with your take to a degree, I just didn't see how our bodies fit in.

Our bodies come from the Earth (flesh gives birth to flesh) and our spirit comes from the Spirit (Spirit gives birth to Spirit).

Mind (Son), body (Mother), and Spirit (Father). When all three are in agreement, there is the Holy (whole) Spirit or life being lived in my opinion. The Holy Spirit is when the Father and Son come together for sure, but that doesn't take into account that the Mother must be present as well.



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So where do our bodies come into the equation in your opinion? I agree with your take to a degree, I just didn't see how our bodies fit in.


Well, I don’t really try to fit the body into the equation personally; the body doesn’t come into it IMO, because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all in relation too Spirit; they are all describing spiritual aspects and not physical things…although I would go along with the Holy Spirit being “ the Mother/feminine” aspect of God, but only in a conceptual sense…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Our bodies come from the Earth (flesh gives birth to flesh) and our spirit comes from the Spirit (Spirit gives birth to Spirit).


Yeah, I see the body as being like a machine, the machines have working parts, which create more machines/flesh, but the machines are not alive, only the Spirit within the machines is alive…






Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Mind (Son), body (Mother), and Spirit (Father). When all three are in agreement, there is the Holy (whole) Spirit or life being lived in my opinion. The Holy Spirit is when the Father and Son come together for sure, but that doesn't take into account that the Mother must be present as well.


Well according to many Gnostic texts, the Son is Spirit too which has both male and female characteristics, and it’s the same for the Father, who is again both combined…

So feminine aspects are already present in both the Son and the Father, especially if you go by various Gnostic and mystical traditions about the nature of God… that’s the only feminine aspect which has been suppressed, that I’m aware of…

I’m not so sure about the Son being mind idea; The Son in the Gnostic texts is generally regarded as being something spiritual too…To me, the mind is just the a part of the machine, which gets driven by the Spirit…and it’s the same with the Body…

Peace

- JC



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

"The Gospel of the Egyptians" mentions the Father, Mother, and Son as the three who came forth from the Father.


Gospel of the Egyptians
Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father.

----------

From that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son.


So I believe the physical universe is a part of the Trinity, and the Holy Spirit is all three in agreement, a.k.a. existence itself, life being lived.

Also notice how the word "bosom" is used to describe the "Father, Mother, and Son". The Gospel of Truth named the bosom the Holy Spirit, and since I believe the Holy Spirit is all three aspects of the divine, this seems to line up perfectly with my theory as of now.
edit on 2/26/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2015 @ 10:49 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Gospel of the Egyptians
Three powers came forth from him; they are the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son, from the living silence, what came forth from the incorruptible Father. These came forth from the silence of the unknown Father.

From that place, the three powers came forth, the three ogdoads that the Father brings forth in silence with his providence, from his bosom, i.e., the Father, the Mother, (and) the Son.


Well, that’s a really strange verse IMO, because firstly, the Ogdoad was essentially a system of eight deities. Four of these deities were male, and they each had a feminine counter part.

Together each male and his consort, made up 4 powers/sources/elements, from which everything was created. The 4 being Water, Eternity, Darkness and Air.

And secondly, where it states in the “Gospel of the Egyptians” above that “three powers came forth” …one of those powers can’t be the Father!…because presumably the Father makes up the Forth element within the Ogdoad, from which the other three powers came forth etc; And I would have to hazard a guess that “Eternity” represents the Father…

Although according to the Gospel of the Egyptians those three came from the “living silence”, which seems a bit strange to me, because in most Gnostic texts everything originally stems from the Father…


So not really sure what to make of it…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
So I believe the physical universe is a part of the Trinity, and the Holy Spirit is all three in agreement, a.k.a. existence itself, life being lived.

Also notice how the word "bosom" is used to describe the "Father, Mother, and Son". The Gospel of Truth named the bosom the Holy Spirit, and since I believe the Holy Spirit is all three aspects of the divine, this seems to line up perfectly with my theory as of now.



Well, just going by the Ogdoad, 2 physical elements have a spiritual base component to them, i.e. Air and Water (not sure about darkness) Just thoughts of the top of my head, perhaps this is how the spirit connect with us physically by going through those two elements, which can then be experience within the Body…

So yeah, you could be onto something here, but to me it’s wouldn’t be the body but the elements within the body which do the connecting…

Interesting stuff though…



- JC



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