Secret Rendition Sites, For US Citizens, Confirmed Inside the US.

Story was on Chris Hayes All In, last night.

www.msnbc.com...

I often wonder how more than 5,000 people disappear every year without a trace. I knew all of it couldn't be attributed to voluntarily disappearing off the grid, or alien abductions. Thanks to the OP for this eye-opening info!
-cwm

These sites are nothing new, but seemingly all the more invasive these days including local PDs. Years prior sites were shared(videos, info, etc.) from Seattle Sandpoint Hub(in reply to WTO demonstrations) to LAX.

The history: "The Real Roots of the CIA's Rendition and Black Sites Program "
See here



Good that this is making it to the MSM outlets:

originally posted by: sensible thought
Story was on Chris Hayes All In, last night.

www.msnbc.com...

Was gonna share but beat me to it

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

I have NEVER called someone a government shill before. even when I violently disagree with someone......but that may change....

Fact is most people on this thread are finding it hard to believe I do too.
And what we want is further investigation.

The fact that your doing your best to deflect the issue to off topic foreign affairs and doing you absolute best to to discourage any further investigation into the matter or label those that want the matter looked into "anti American" raises alarm bell.

Even if one does not believe it true they should AT LEAST be wanting the matter investigated even if its to just to confirm nothing is going on.

I'm with you 100% on the suspicion of shillery. I'm far from a Shill hunter, and I know we aren't supposed to talk about other members, but this guy constantly repeats some of the most bizarre pro-corruption talking points. You can always count on him to dismiss anyone who is even slightly critical of wrong doing.

When a report of wrong doing comes out, and the best you could come up with is "anyone who considered the possibility of wrong doing is anti-American" over and over in thread after thread, it's hard not to raise an eyebrow.

To suggest it's anti-american to ask questions in regards to something that goes against our foundation of freedom is just bizarre. If anything it's anti-American to prevent people from trying to preserve our freedom. It's anti-american to protect people that would ruin this nation.

You are getting all worked up over a foreign pro demonstrator hatchet job. No proof. Bigfoot section at least has grainy photos.

Actually this should be in the hoax bin because the title says confirmed, and nothing is confirmed that has been claimed.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
All there is here is some accusation by a convicted anarchist

1) He has served his time. Why should I not now treat his accusation as something to look into?
2) It attitudes like that of continuing to treat past criminals as second class citizens that cause such high re offending rates
3) It not just him. His lawyer noticed huge amount discrepancy and odd things.

No thats far from saying its true.

But it does warrant a investigation.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

I have NEVER called someone a government shill before. even when I violently disagree with someone......but that may change....

Fact is most people on this thread are finding it hard to believe I do too.
And what we want is further investigation.

The fact that your doing your best to deflect the issue to off topic foreign affairs and doing you absolute best to to discourage any further investigation into the matter or label those that want the matter looked into "anti American" raises alarm bell.

Even if one does not believe it true they should AT LEAST be wanting the matter investigated even if its to just to confirm nothing is going on.

I'm with you 100% on the suspicion of shillery. I'm far from a Shill hunter, and I know we aren't supposed to talk about other members, but this guy constantly repeats some of the most bizarre pro-corruption talking points. You can always count on him to dismiss anyone who is even slightly critical of wrong doing.

When a report of wrong doing comes out, and the best you could come up with is "anyone who considered the possibility of wrong doing is anti-American" over and over in thread after thread, it's hard not to raise an eyebrow.

To suggest it's anti-american to ask questions in regards to something that goes against our foundation of freedom is just bizarre. If anything it's anti-American to prevent people from trying to preserve our freedom. It's anti-american to protect people that would ruin this nation.

You are getting all worked up over a foreign pro demonstrator hatchet job. No proof. Bigfoot section at least has grainy photos.

Actually this should be in the hoax bin because the title says confirmed, and nothing is confirmed that has been claimed.

There you go.

Your deflecting AGAIN.


If this accusation is not true there can be no harm in confirming its false is a there?

To refuse to even look at the claims and just deflect stinks of shillary.

And the fact you use the word demonstrators as a dirt word speaks volumes. Not all demonstrators are a bad thing, and the right to demonstrate is vital in a free society.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

I have NEVER called someone a government shill before. even when I violently disagree with someone......but that may change....

Fact is most people on this thread are finding it hard to believe I do too.
And what we want is further investigation.

The fact that your doing your best to deflect the issue to off topic foreign affairs and doing you absolute best to to discourage any further investigation into the matter or label those that want the matter looked into "anti American" raises alarm bell.

Even if one does not believe it true they should AT LEAST be wanting the matter investigated even if its to just to confirm nothing is going on.

I'm with you 100% on the suspicion of shillery. I'm far from a Shill hunter, and I know we aren't supposed to talk about other members, but this guy constantly repeats some of the most bizarre pro-corruption talking points. You can always count on him to dismiss anyone who is even slightly critical of wrong doing.

When a report of wrong doing comes out, and the best you could come up with is "anyone who considered the possibility of wrong doing is anti-American" over and over in thread after thread, it's hard not to raise an eyebrow.

To suggest it's anti-american to ask questions in regards to something that goes against our foundation of freedom is just bizarre. If anything it's anti-American to prevent people from trying to preserve our freedom. It's anti-american to protect people that would ruin this nation.

You are getting all worked up over a foreign pro demonstrator hatchet job. No proof. Bigfoot section at least has grainy photos.

Actually this should be in the hoax bin because the title says confirmed, and nothing is confirmed that has been claimed.

And the fact you use the word demonstrators as a dirt word speaks volumes. Not all demonstrators are a bad thing, and the right to demonstrate is vital in a free society.

Ones that get convicted of possessing an incendiary device at a protest are not good protestors or the kind of protesting protected under the Constitution.
Lobbing molitovs must equal good protester in your book.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

I have NEVER called someone a government shill before. even when I violently disagree with someone......but that may change....

Fact is most people on this thread are finding it hard to believe I do too.
And what we want is further investigation.

The fact that your doing your best to deflect the issue to off topic foreign affairs and doing you absolute best to to discourage any further investigation into the matter or label those that want the matter looked into "anti American" raises alarm bell.

Even if one does not believe it true they should AT LEAST be wanting the matter investigated even if its to just to confirm nothing is going on.

I'm with you 100% on the suspicion of shillery. I'm far from a Shill hunter, and I know we aren't supposed to talk about other members, but this guy constantly repeats some of the most bizarre pro-corruption talking points. You can always count on him to dismiss anyone who is even slightly critical of wrong doing.

When a report of wrong doing comes out, and the best you could come up with is "anyone who considered the possibility of wrong doing is anti-American" over and over in thread after thread, it's hard not to raise an eyebrow.

To suggest it's anti-american to ask questions in regards to something that goes against our foundation of freedom is just bizarre. If anything it's anti-American to prevent people from trying to preserve our freedom. It's anti-american to protect people that would ruin this nation.

You are getting all worked up over a foreign pro demonstrator hatchet job. No proof. Bigfoot section at least has grainy photos.

Actually this should be in the hoax bin because the title says confirmed, and nothing is confirmed that has been claimed.

And the fact you use the word demonstrators as a dirt word speaks volumes. Not all demonstrators are a bad thing, and the right to demonstrate is vital in a free society.

Ones that get convicted of possessing an incendiary device at a protest are not good protestors or the kind of protesting protected under the Constitution.
Lobbing molitovs must equal good protester in your book.

Oooooo

Look right out of a text book


See people how it takes my quote and spins it into something i never said.

This
1) deflects from the topic at hand
2) trys and discredits the poster

Not peoole how it latchs on to this one point but ignores the core of my post that relates to the topic.

For the record no that is NOT what I said.

I was saying not all demonstations and protests are a bad thing.

If they have petrol bombs then yes that is a bad thing.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: mahatche

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TinfoilTP

I have NEVER called someone a government shill before. even when I violently disagree with someone......but that may change....

Fact is most people on this thread are finding it hard to believe I do too.
And what we want is further investigation.

The fact that your doing your best to deflect the issue to off topic foreign affairs and doing you absolute best to to discourage any further investigation into the matter or label those that want the matter looked into "anti American" raises alarm bell.

Even if one does not believe it true they should AT LEAST be wanting the matter investigated even if its to just to confirm nothing is going on.

I'm with you 100% on the suspicion of shillery. I'm far from a Shill hunter, and I know we aren't supposed to talk about other members, but this guy constantly repeats some of the most bizarre pro-corruption talking points. You can always count on him to dismiss anyone who is even slightly critical of wrong doing.

When a report of wrong doing comes out, and the best you could come up with is "anyone who considered the possibility of wrong doing is anti-American" over and over in thread after thread, it's hard not to raise an eyebrow.

To suggest it's anti-american to ask questions in regards to something that goes against our foundation of freedom is just bizarre. If anything it's anti-American to prevent people from trying to preserve our freedom. It's anti-american to protect people that would ruin this nation.

You are getting all worked up over a foreign pro demonstrator hatchet job. No proof. Bigfoot section at least has grainy photos.

Actually this should be in the hoax bin because the title says confirmed, and nothing is confirmed that has been claimed.

And the fact you use the word demonstrators as a dirt word speaks volumes. Not all demonstrators are a bad thing, and the right to demonstrate is vital in a free society.

Ones that get convicted of possessing an incendiary device at a protest are not good protestors or the kind of protesting protected under the Constitution.
Lobbing molitovs must equal good protester in your book.

Oooooo

Look right out of a text book


See people how it takes my quote and spins it into something i never said.

This
1) deflects from the topic at hand
2) trys and discredits the poster

Not peoole how it latchs on to this one point but ignores the core of my post that relates to the topic.

For the record no that is NOT what I said.

I was saying not all demonstations and protests are a bad thing.

If they have petrol bombs then yes that is a bad thing.

Did you even read the story? The whole story is about a guy who got convicted of having an incendiary device at a protest then came out with these unproven accusations.

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: nullafides

When people say that they don't trust people and abhor the idea of individualism they are necessarily statists.

The most common form of statism here is socialism.

If you aren't, you are still a jerk.

Green... Null...

I don't think either of you are that different. You both want change for the better. Let's start there, okay?

Null doesn't hold out hope for a non-violent solution and Green has hope. There really is no reason for you two to be bantering back and forth.

Division is the pacifying medicine of the elite served to us on a daily basis.

originally posted by: WCmutant

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: nullafides

When people say that they don't trust people and abhor the idea of individualism they are necessarily statists.

The most common form of statism here is socialism.

If you aren't, you are still a jerk.

Green... Null...

I don't think either of you are that different. You both want change for the better. Let's start there, okay?

Null doesn't hold out hope for a non-violent solution and Green has hope. There really is no reason for you two to be bantering back and forth.

Division is the pacifying medicine of the elite served to us on a daily basis.

Let me be the first to admit, not my finest hour.

Thanks for the calming words.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Did you even read the story? The whole story is about a guy who got convicted of having an incendiary device at a protest then came out with these unproven accusations.

Did you read the story?
Maybe check it again before you claim "molotov's at protests", especially if you're going to accuse others of misreading the facts while you subtly attempt to change the story.

He was arrested in a RAID, not on a protest.
And, FYI, the words "incendiary device" can be applied to an aerosol can with a lighter.

Despite this, he has served his time, his debt to society has been paid, and if you were a decent American you would understand the laws and constitution of your own country and afford him some respect.

From what has been said about this place, there is grounds for an investigation. Simply denying any of this happened makes you look foolish. There is plenty of evidence and witness statements to show that this place does exist and it does operate in direct contravention of the Constitution.

Your extreme right-wing nonsense seems very hypocritical. I'll bet you're the kind of Republican who screams about the Constitution when it suits you, but happy to tear it up to attack someone you dislike.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

[This might not be directly relevant to what you wrote or a direct reply to you; I don't know your intention, your comment just provoked a few thoughts that's all.]

That would preempt a revolution and bring the wrath of the police state down on the population, that would be premature, the state could paint the perpetrators as terrorists, the people would mostly agree and they'd be right too. There's not enough people on board to effect real lasting change, this type of attack would be a powder keg and would damage the relations between the people and any would be revolutionaries(when is that false flag coming by the way?).

On the other hand, the government showing it's true colours and ratcheting up the police state a few notches would also awaken the public further.

I think part of the plan is to provoke the "far right" militia types into conflict, leftists would be on board to punish such "terrorists", much how they overlook the blatant corruption of Obama. They would gloat.

We've got the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street, bridging the gap between these movements and synthesizing them should be an objective. They use Hegelian dialectics, so should we.

a reply to: Profusion

The way I see it. Bush and Obama both broke our laws, circumvented congress, broke international law and broke constitutional law to make all of these "new laws" that only benefit the NWO and international bankers. That said, we Americas far out number the police and even the military. We let them break the laws, because if congress is such a bunch of cowards, that they let this happen and did nothing about it. They are not working for us. They also were called "nothing but ceremonial" by Obama, which means that he even knew they were a joke. Back on point.....if they broke the laws to enslave us, totally ignoring the constitution which kept us free....then why should we obey laws that were created by criminal acts....by criminals and for criminals.

We Americans should have revolted after the first legal bypass from ANY president....but it seems that ...either all Americans are cowards as wel, or we have been brainwashed so well, that everything (including our own slavery) becomes acceptable to us. We enjoy our stupid Kim Kardashians, and reality shows, cant take our eyes off of our devices, told by media that we are closer to each other than ever because of these media devices, yet we barely talk to our own families, because they dont have a Facebook Account.

We have become lethargic, we have believed in our government despite lies. We criticize each other for believing other than what the government tells us to believe, through their controlled media who is their mouthpiece. There is craploads of actual evidence online, but most are too busy to investigate for themselves, and would just rather play with the myriad of media mindwashing tools designed for distraction. There WILL be revolution, but it will only be bloodier for us letting them get away with this. We should have started in 1916 actually.

This was his quote in 1916, in reference to his signing of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913. I cant believe by 2015...we have al been so ignorant.


Woodrow Wilson-
"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.
A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit.
Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation,
therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men.
We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely
controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world.
No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by
conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by
the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

a reply to: Rocker2013

Actually, there is a link provided in The Guardian article to the Chicago Tribune that discusses the actions and court proceedings.

1. They did pour gas into beer bottles

However, if you read the full article you will find that they were also goaded into potential destructive actions by undercover police officers. I'm not sure if that includes the creation of the incendiary devices or not.

Chicago Tribune link

Regardless, taking people to unknown locations (facilities that are not listed) for questioning is a slippery slope that police shouldn't be heading down. The fact that they think having an unknown facility for questioning suspects, especially minors, is appalling.

Having someone die in custody at one of these sites is dubious at best given the increase in police brutality. A site like this only further drives a wedge between the citizens and police.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
If you are REALLY interested in CLOSING this crap down the first stage is reconaissance.Get the location on GPS, get as many pics as you can of the entrance and security THEN maybe someone could run a follow up op.

You really are a cav scout.
Well I agree that good intel is the basis for everything.

That 'follow up' you're hoping for can't be done by SOMEONE though.
It must be done by EVERYONE. That's the way to beat Nazis. The only way.

Because like all vermin, fascists fear the light of day, and the just fury of an enlightened people.

IOW:
Second step: build up resistance. Enlighten the people.
This step failed in 1930s in Germany... the rest is history.

IDK, a warehouse is not something I would call a "site". Armies of pesky lawyers have forced to the government to do certain things in secret which they used to do openly. We rely on the government to protect us from certain evils, but like any big organization, it will serve itself. Congress is more interested in scoring political points than investigating the things that should be exposed. I've always had the idea the top congressional leaders sometimes go to secret meetings and they tell them, "here's what we're doing, now STFU", and their curiosity satisfied, they let it go on. There was such a land/sea change in what candidate Obama said he was going to do, and what he did, that he must have been drastically affected by the things he learned once in office. We have an open government, and another government of secrets. A government that does so much in secret bears watching.
a reply to: mister.old.school

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: PorteurDeMort

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: mister.old.school

Defund departments. Pull the plug before it's too late.

While I agree that certain elements of law enforcement are out of control, what alternative would you propose for controlling crime? I mean, if you eliminate law enforcement you have anarchy. Certainly you don't believe that all members of our society would effectively police themselves. I doubt the honor system would work here in America. Or anywhere else for that matter.

An armed and vigilant populace.

I agree 100% with your posts in here - up to this one.

A true libertarian society (which I believe is what you propose?) wouldn't even need that much of a vigilant populace.
The 'need' for repression on the levels like in the U.S. is a product of statism and lack of freedom in the first place.
This needs to be emphasised. Freedom is the solution - the lack of it is the problem.

*I just think it is more beneficial to argue from the positive side.

originally posted by: ColCurious

originally posted by: greencmp

originally posted by: PorteurDeMort

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: mister.old.school

Defund departments. Pull the plug before it's too late.

While I agree that certain elements of law enforcement are out of control, what alternative would you propose for controlling crime? I mean, if you eliminate law enforcement you have anarchy. Certainly you don't believe that all members of our society would effectively police themselves. I doubt the honor system would work here in America. Or anywhere else for that matter.

An armed and vigilant populace.

I agree 100% with your posts in here - up to this one.

A true libertarian society (which I believe is what you propose?) wouldn't even need that much of a vigilant populace.
The 'need' for repression on the levels like in the U.S. is a product of statism and lack of freedom in the first place.
This needs to be emphasised. Freedom is the solution - the lack of it is the problem.

*I just think it is more beneficial to argue from the positive side.

I hear you, if I remember correctly I was responding to a question about who would protect the citizens from criminals.

That said, our second amendment is specifically designed to provide a reasonable threat of revolt against tyranny and I believe it is one of the most important rights that citizens must retain in a free society. Second only to... the first.

If we are to save humanity from the scourge of another century of socialism, I entirely agree that we must stay positive. Dread may sell doom porn but, a coherent philosophy it does not make.

"Freedom is the solution - the lack of it is the problem." -ColCurious

I like that.

a reply to: greencmp

Exactly.
If we venture to break the paradigm of statism (fascist/socialist/totalitarianwhatever) AND counter the hegelian dialectic our Governments WILL offer the people, we have to present the crime and it's repression as a conflict inherent in the system - the problem fighting it's own symptoms.
With us footing the bill of course.

I didn't mean to lecture you or something btw.