The Socorro Incident revisited

a reply to: ColeYounger

There was a problem with my reply which was not included in its entirety and when I clicked on "reply" it would take me to page 6, when there's only 2 pages! It did this everytime I tried to edit my reply. So here is how I ended my reply:

Some ufologists have suggested that because the craft was small and used primitive jet propulsion, (by E.T. standards) it was a two-person landing pod, and came from a larger ship.

What ufologists? How do they know anything other than what's in the public record? By "E.T. standards"?

Here is the Coast-To-Coast show. The Sanford interview begins at the 1:20:00 mark.

No, thanks.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

How tall would "small adults or large kids" be? its kind of ambiguous.

Ben Moss claims the height was established based on a comparison.

Zamora said "2 things in what looked like white coveralls". He also said they were the size of small children, and when standing next to the bush, they estimated, since they were shorter than the 5 foot bush, to be about 4 1/2 feet tall.

So where are you getting the "piloting exotic egg shaped craft" from when he said "egg shaped balloon" and never describes anyone flying the thing? why twist witness words?

This happens in many discussions, like abortion, one would like to assume everyone believes murder is a bad thing, but thats really the crux of the matter for that debate imo.

Here I think many people do not give the hoax option much credibility, so the assumption is the two beings got in the craft and flew it out of there, after all, the midget beings werent there when the other parties showed up.

Both believers and skeptics give the hoax theory a hard time at KRs blog, I think their arguments are compelling.

But either way, in the same vein, I think it would be helpful if you gave your alternative theory for what happened to the two beings and the craft.

@mirageman

It feels to me that after 50+ years we really should know who did it and why.

Im not an expert on the case, but it really seems like Bluebook had the best chance/resources to solve it and were highly motivated to do so, surprising to me they didnt.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Ben Moss claims the height was established based on a comparison.

That is interesting but I think that its best to stick with the actual witness testimony that is given in a relatively short time after the event. It seems to me that these stories get more alien like as time goes on and are retold. Ben Moss could be dead on accurate or he could have tweaked the story a bit. I really don't know.

Here I think many people do not give the hoax option much credibility, so the assumption is the two beings got in the craft and flew it out of there, after all, the midget beings werent there when the other parties showed up.

Both believers and skeptics give the hoax theory a hard time at KRs blog, I think their arguments are compelling.

But either way, in the same vein, I think it would be helpful if you gave your alternative theory for what happened to the two beings and the craft.

I'm not sure if I am following but it sounds like you are saying that we should assume aliens because there is not an exact explanation? The way I approach these things is by going by the actual account from the witness and try to understand it from their perspective and state of mind.

When I read the account, there is a lot of running and glancing and fear and not a lot of observation. I don't fault anyone for being afraid of something and have no idea how I would react in the same situation. For instance, i am afraid of heights and have a hard time making good observations when in a high place. Things get very distorted and I don't want to look down or observe anything. I know these are completely different scenarios but the chemistry and the response is exactly the same. There is also this assumption that because someone experiences fear during these events that they must have seen something significant because people don't get afraid when they see balloons. In reality people get afraid for all sorts of reasons sometimes for a good reason and other times for nothing but once that response is triggered you are in for the ride. Something triggered the response. Sounds like the "roar" spooked him?

It is common for an individual experiencing tachypsychia to have serious misinterpretations of their surroundings during the events

en.wikipedia.org...

It is pretty clear that this was what was going on aliens or not. I really have no opinion on the hoax theory nor do I give the alien explanation much thought. I'm also really not compelled to give explanations that are impossible to prove. The only thing I can say is that it really doesn't seem like it has to be anything extraordinary imo.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Ben Moss could be dead on accurate or he could have tweaked the story a bit. I really don't know.

I will give him this one, bush was there and Zamora remembers them being shorter. Ben Moss makes a big deal of this, claiming midgets havent ever been used in any kind of flight test. Overstatement for sure. I could see where short people would be advantageous at times.

The only thing I can say is that it really doesn't seem like it has to be anything extraordinary imo.

I just cant get away from the propulsion, Ben Moss tries to claim it wasnt our standard rocket propulsion on the KR blog and goes into detail about it, but I cant buy it.

Only thing that says alien to me is it remains unsolved. In some cases this makes sense, but here, it was easy to look around and see who the likely suspects were and nothing. Not enough to make a strong case imo, but strange nonetheless.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

I will give him this one, bush was there and Zamora remembers them being shorter. Ben Moss makes a big deal of this, claiming midgets havent ever been used in any kind of flight test. Overstatement for sure. I could see where short people would be advantageous at times.

after reading the original testimony a few times, I really don't see any way Zamora could have determined anything in 2 seconds from that distance while in his state of mind. Memory is malleable Misinformation Effect

The small size of the people is due to ufology's influence on the event regardless of how tall they actually were. But as soon as someone can point me to a study showing that people can accurately determine the height of someone from 100 yards while running away and glancing at them for 2 seconds and then later recalling their exact height while being interviewed by a bunch of people insisting that they must have been short, I will change my mind.

originally posted by: Maverick7
Non-terrestrials who would be 10K to 1M years more advanced than we would not use full-sized atmospheric craft to do any exploration.

Virtual, nanotech, remote viewed, holographic tech and stuff more advanced than we could know. To suggest they'd come here and use "just past Earth 21st century aircraft in the atmosphere" is like saying if we went back in time to check out the Vikings we'd use advanced wooden ships. It's laughable.

If Lonnie saw a craft it was one of ours.

We do not know if the Visitors are 1,000 or 100 years ahead of us, but the above assumption makes a valid point.
Yet it is incorrect on one major detail. They ARE coming here studying us in full sized craft, because that is what everyone is seeing and describing.

Lonnie saw a craft and it seems it was not one of ours.

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

....They ARE coming here studying us in full sized craft, because that is what everyone is seeing and describing.

That is a matter of opinion. Because how do you and "everyone" know what a "Visitors" craft would look like?

It assumes too many unknown variables (that there are aliens, that they are technologically advanced enough to leave their planet and either live extremely long lives or are able to manipulate space time to arrive here. Then they also need to be immune to the many dangers of space travel and also the ability to survive in earth's atmosphere.)

....Lonnie saw a craft and it seems it was not one of ours. ...

Again why does it seem it was not one of 'ours'?

originally posted by: mirageman
Again why does it seem it was not one of 'ours'?

Because the egg-shaped balloon he described doesn't normally have a rocket motor, as seen here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Of course if some bored college students decided to put on a pyrotechnics display alongside the balloon, it would fit Zamora's description pretty well.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Out of curiosity, can anyone tell how tall those people are?

Again why does it seem it was not one of 'ours'?

Did you see the Socorro craft in the museum, along with the names of the test pilots who flew it?
Did you see those blueprints and how they went about constructing it and why they designed it that way?
Did you read about the troubles they were having keeping it aloft and how they had to make an emergency landing?
Did you read about how once they reached a certain altitude they were able to fly without making any noise?
Did you read about why they considered it so top secret at the time that they had to cover it up?
????
No you did not. None of us have, and that is because the egg shaped craft that Zamora saw (saying that he could not identify the beings in the coveralls as humans) was not human made.

Like the SR71 and Mogul, there is no reason to keep any technology from that time secret anymore because it is so completely out of date that even our enemies already know about it. Certainly nothing from Apollo meets that secrecy.

“But wait!” you say, “The thing could fly without making any noise! That technology is still hidden.” So hidden in fact that we today still cannot make anything like it.

Have you seen the new Chevrolet Corvettes? They are real panty droppers. What some girls will do to drive one of those. They are beautiful machines with gobs of horsepower and modern tech in them. So how come they cannot compete with the best automobiles of the 1940’s?

a reply to: ColeYounger

Strange encounter with the Greys or another psy op.

Who knows?