Why did King David take orders from Satan…???

a reply to: Joecroft

The way I see it, Satan rose up in Israel, which angered the Lord, and David as well...but God did not tell David to hold a census, David took things into his own hands rather than letting God handle the situation.

Why would David feel motivated to confess the census as a sin if he truely believed it was God's will in the first place? Read the rest of the cited chapters for context.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yet you believe the entire bible is inspired by God. Why is God contradicting himself? Both men were inspired by the same God, yet that same God inspired them to come to two different conclusions? How does that make sense? If anything one was NOT inspired by God while the other was, which is why one attributes God's actions to Satan and not the one who supposedly inspired him to attribute it to Satan.

Like I said, they leave it there out in the open KNOWING you wouldn't accept it for what it is. They have you blinded to it, and they're displaying it for everyone else to see.

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Abednego

Or we could just admit to the obvious... the bible was written by men...

Thus subject to mans flaws...

Because is easier to say that.
We will never understand God's decision making. Not under our terms.

Well yes it is easier... and far more honest...

On the other hand one could believe that a book containing 66 other books from various periods of time from the previous few thousand years was compiled by men in the church by the will of God... men with no agendas... but only good intentions.... except history shows otherwise... It is written by the winners for one... and nothing good ever came from the early church... or the religion before it existed...

hmm... hard decision

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

God didn't tell David to hold a census? It's right there saying God did tell him to in 2 Samuel.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

When all logic fails... God works in mysterious ways...

We don't know the mind of God... etc etc

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DISRAELI

So God inspired two people to come to two different conclusions on the same event. Why is he inspiring two different conclusions? Is he divided against himself? One must be inspired by God and the other not so much, right? If the bible doesn't contain contradictions, then why is this one present?

Let's put it this way.

You have a dream about getting into a business. You said I got a dream about this and that, everything started to look good in the beginning. You said God spoke to me in a dream to run this business. The scribe goes like this: God spoke to 3NL1GHT3N3D1 to do this business.
Later on the business went down the hole. So another scribe goes like this: 3NL1GHT3N3D1's business did not worked because Satan incited him to get into.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Yet you believe the entire bible is inspired by God.

Where, in any of my ATS posts, have I ever declared a belief that "the entire Bible is inspired by God", in the literalistic sense that you're talking about?
On the contrary, if you refer to my "God's law" series, you will see me arguing that the laws had a mixed origin, combining God's intentions with a human contribution, and that our task is to disentangle the two elements.
The same argument works elsewhere.
In this case, at least one of the two "contradictory" statements can be seen as the "human contribution".

I understand how you people work. You NEED Christians to be thoroughly literalistic in their approach to the Bible, so that you can attack them on that basis, but the tactic doesn't work on people who have a different approach.

a reply to: Abednego

So the story changes when things end up not looking as though God did it? Sounds like a case of cognitive dissonance to me, changing things around to equal preconceived notions. If both scribes who were writing about my dream are said to be inspired by God, the situation changes a bit don't you think?

Either God incited it or Satan did. God supposedly inspired both passages, yet God's inspiration ended up with two different stories. Why? Christians cannot answer it, they just see both as right without considering the ramifications of such a contradiction, if they do... hellfire.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Okay, fair enough. So you believe one was inspired by God but the other wasn't. I can jibe with that.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Abednego

So the story changes when things end up not looking as though God did it? Sounds like a case of cognitive dissonance to me, changing things around to equal preconceived notions. If both scribes who were writing about my dream are said to be inspired by God, the situation changes a bit don't you think?

Either God incited it or Satan did. God supposedly inspired both passages, yet God's inspiration ended up with two different stories. Why? Christians cannot answer it, they just see both as right without considering the ramifications of such a contradiction, if they do... hellfire.

You are taking it too literal. And yes your right about the case of cognitive dissonance, but that is due to human thinking about what could have happened.
I put a link to a thread I did on this same subject. I advised you to read it.
There are some logical answer in there.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

God didn't tell David to hold a census? It's right there saying God did tell him to in 2 Samuel.

No, God didn't. David did that all on his own. His subordinate recognizes that even and questions him, but David goes on to do it.

If God ordered David to hold the census, then it would not have been the sin David later recognized it was.

a reply to: ketsuko

So you agree that there are things in the bible that were attributed to God by the authors that weren't actually God?

I guess that means we agree.

a reply to: Joecroft

easy king david is human has free will ..........will do what he wants in the end and he made a mistake and listened to saten
david did not listen to god ..and gos is a gentleman he dont force things on us or make us do things there is no free will in that


another story is abraham god told him u be father of a nation with sarah but sarah was berren
so abraham wanted a son so he slept with house maid took another wife had son ishmel

then sarah gets pregnat has issac and then sarah got jeluose of other wife and child
makes abraham throwes them to the desert where long story short is where islam is born

now if abraham would of listened to god that would not of happened there would be no islam
the house of the Arabs would have never been divided .....and a divides house shall not stand

god dont force you tp listen to him and you can follow satan any time you want ................freewill

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

David ordered the army called up all on his own. A census is different. When we take a census in the US, do we call up all the men of fighting age? Basically, on is a count and other is a draft.

a reply to: ketsuko

David calling the armies is not what is in question here, it is who incited him to order a census. Either it was God or it was Satan, the bible says both. If it was Satan then certain authors in the bible attributed actions to God when it was actually Satan who did them.

If you agree with that premise then we are in agreement. There are plenty of things in the bible that are attributed to God that were actually Satan.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Given that this is an account of an event in extreme antiquity, it was probably something the writer didn't have any way to verify one way or the other.

Modern scholars don't even know exactly what was going on in this account, only that it is clear that David committed a grave sin in calling up the armies for some reason. The author of Samuel clearly felt that the census was called for by God, but that David's sin was committed in the manner he carried out this order. The author of Chronicles must have felt that Satan influenced David because he saw no reason why calling up the army was a sin.

And the individual authors of the two parallel accounts also had no way to confer with each other.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why couldn't God have verified it for him? It was inspired by God wasn't it?

That still leaves the fact that a certain author attributed the actions of Satan to God, that means in this instance the bible is not infallible. Even one instance of fallibility undermines the whole concept of the bible being infallible.

Did God order the census or did Satan? The bible says both... fallible.

If it was Satan who ordered the census, an author attributed his actions to those of God. If it happened this one time, who's to say it didn't happen again? You're ignoring the real issue here. One man says God, the other says Satan. No amount of mental gymnastics will take away that fact.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Maybe God ordered Satan to make David call for this census?

a reply to: Akragon

Possibly, but why would God order Satan to incite something he would see as a sin and later punish them for? That would mean God made them do something he knew he'd punish them for. Doesn't make much sense to me, but I guess that's a sociopath for you.

The word satan mean adversary.It is not an “evil spiritual being” that is at war with the creator God.When something is in opposition and stand against it is satan.The concept of satan as an evil spiritual being is the invention of mans religion and is the root.

The ludicrous events that the Israelites and Jews chronicled in the Tanakh scriptures is a testimony against them.In effect the creator God was many times satan to them.The term satan has a perspective of anything against and in opposition .

For example..The religious carnal mind is at enmity and is against the creator.It is the “seat/throne ”(synagogue) of satan.A diabolo (translated devil or demon) is a channel something moves through.The religious carnal mind concocts a plethora of phantoms to shift blame on.

These satans are all religious patsies people foist blame on for things and events that go against them.It is impossible to convince anyone that that are only “jousting with windmills”.It is the epitome of foolishness to believe a creator God has a true enemy.The only war between satan and the creator God is going on between the ears of man in their religious mind.There is a sure loser in that war that is already lost but does not know it.