If Mariupol falls, we could end up at war with Russia.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
As long as Putin calculates NATO has no stomach for war while he has anti war Komrade Obama cowering in a corner, he will use it to his advantage to get as much as he can. Anyone else remember the mic slip up where Obama tells Putin wait till he gets the reelection over with? Looks like it was a green light when viewing history since.

Wow, I totally forgot about that.

Good point....I wander if they worked out a deal to trade Ukraine's debt to russia for Crimea.

originally posted by: infinityorder

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
As long as Putin calculates NATO has no stomach for war while he has anti war Komrade Obama cowering in a corner, he will use it to his advantage to get as much as he can. Anyone else remember the mic slip up where Obama tells Putin wait till he gets the reelection over with? Looks like it was a green light when viewing history since.

Wow, I totally forgot about that.

Good point....I wander if they worked out a deal to trade Ukraine's debt to russia for Crimea.

The phrase "Give him an inch and he wants a mile" comes to mind.

a reply to: infinityorder

Why?

Russia is outmatched in every aspect by the west. Why would it be insane?

Because of Russia its missile technology, jamming capabilities, nuclear weapons and what other tricks Russia has which the West isn`t aware of.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Russian missiles cannot penetrate US defenses?

In that case, Russians should pack the bags and hide in bunkers in the remote of Siberia. Guess they are not? Are they insane or something?

Or they might have several "fantastic weapons" that west has no clue about.......Go Figure!!

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The phrase "Give him an inch and he wants a mile" comes to mind.

That's more true of the NATO's demeanor since the end of Cold War I.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Russian missiles cannot penetrate US defenses?

In that case, Russians should pack the bags and hide in bunkers in the remote of Siberia. Guess they are not? Are they insane or something?

Or they might have several "fantastic weapons" that west has no clue about.......Go Figure!!

When you compare the defense spending budgets of the Russian Federation Vs. The United States, it's easy to see which nation is spending more on defense research. If Russia has some secret weapon/defense that we don't know about, The U.S. probably has something two generations newer.

Just sayin'.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Isn't it amazing that NATO is trying to get more money from member countries and is talking war a lot about Russia

They using scare tactics?

They don't need to use scare tactics when Russia has actually invaded and annexed part of another country. This mentality of constantly blaming NATO really is quite astounding, everything that Putin has CHOSEN to do has done nothing but justify NATO. No one MADE Putin invade Ukraine, no one MADE Putin steal a chunk of another country, no one MADE Putin kidnap a border guard...

Here's an idea, if you think NATO is a threat to Russia, how about NOT proving Europe right by NOT invading another country?

We are now well within our rights as a group of allies to do everything we can to prevent the threat Russia clearly poses to NATO member states. If Putin doesn't like this, maybe he should get his a** out of Ukraine and stop threatening other former Soviet nations?

Sums up my thoughts on the matter pretty well.

a reply to: victor7

Not enough MONEY to support exotics would seem to indicate otherwise as Putin has run off with the vault.
Missiles are old hat when we are showing lasers and rail guns in the white world.
I DON'T want to harm Russia or her people nobody does but you will not expand outside your country unopposed AGAIN.
WE learned from the aftermath of WWII and it IS NOT going to happen.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Where US spends $10, in that same place Russia can do away with $1. R&D has same logic also.

Similarly Russian bode no bad intentions to US but WILL safeguard their interests where ever applicable.

Russia WILL NOT back down on Ukraine.............to the point of WW3 using all the tools!

Russia does not have to jump straight in with nuclear weapons. They have a pretty strong conventional army. I'd expect them to try and nullify the western (especially US) technological advantages through the use of anti satellite weaponry for example before going straight to plan b. Our militaries rely heavily on GPS and satellite comms etc and it's a huge chink in our armour. I actually question whether some NATO members would have the stomach to honour their commitments if push did come to shove. When you look at the potential behind this to explode in everyone's faces (literally) the events in the Middle East pale to a mere side show in comparison.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: infinityorder

Why?

Russia is outmatched in every aspect by the west. Why would it be insane?

Because of Russia its missile technology, jamming capabilities, nuclear weapons and what other tricks Russia has which the West isn`t aware of.

Lol, you honestly think russia has more secret tech than the west?

The same russia that not 20 years ago america had to give hundreds of billions of dollars to, more than once, just to guarantee they could keep their own troops paid to guard their own nukes?


Omfg...ahahahaha...lol.....really?

America has spent more on R&D in the last 3 years than russia in the last 50....you know how dumb that sounds right?

a reply to: victor7

BULL ,Russia is REGIONAL only now and hasn't got the stockpiles to take heavy losses ,they are HIDING the fact from the public they are THERE or it would be called a PATRIOTIC effort instead. It is a HIDDEN deal like China in Vietnam.
How many "training accidents" are they away from a coup anyway?
It gets REAL unpopular when the gains COST too much.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Russian missiles cannot penetrate US defenses?

In that case, Russians should pack the bags and hide in bunkers in the remote of Siberia. Guess they are not? Are they insane or something?

Or they might have several "fantastic weapons" that west has no clue about.......Go Figure!!

When you compare the defense spending budgets of the Russian Federation Vs. The United States, it's easy to see which nation is spending more on defense research. If Russia has some secret weapon/defense that we don't know about, The U.S. probably has something two generations newer.

Just sayin'.

More likely 5 generations, but your point still stands.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: victor7

Not enough MONEY to support exotics would seem to indicate otherwise as Putin has run off with the vault.
Missiles are old hat when we are showing lasers and rail guns in the white world.
I DON'T want to harm Russia or her people nobody does but you will not expand outside your country unopposed AGAIN.
WE learned from the aftermath of WWII and it IS NOT going to happen.

I have been saying this for months....the west learned this lesson after ww2.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The sad thing is, this may embolden him to make advances into other non-nuclear nations and expand Russia's borders even more.

Russia aint doing something the US havent already done more than once. Its just that the propaganda machine is printing a different story when Russia is doing it. That is the only difference.

The US have attacked soverign nations based on lies. And killed their head of state and braged about it to Our amusment.
The media preped us so good that we said it was fine.

We have agreed to prep terrorist in Syria because they said it was okay. Now we see the result of the bed that we have made.

Russia is a small problem compared to what USNATO are doing in their fight against. The terror that USNATO them selves have created.

The good thing about Ukraine...People are starting to Wake up, probably because this can become really serious for all of us.
We will not be able to stop whats comming, and when this war comes, some of you People will get a Wake up Call of Your life time. I feel really sorry for the kids who have to muster for this event.

And i dont think we will see this war on TV or the internet. There wont be any discussions on ATS while this event is rolling.

a reply to: victor7

Where US spends $10, in that same place Russia can do away with $1. R&D has same logic also.

Sure they can...that is why they are buying French made carriers.

If you spend ten you get this...



If you spend a dollar you get this...



Still think they can do the same with just a tenth of what the US spends?

As for the R&D the same thing applies.

a reply to: joho99

I have noticed more and more articles about the chances of a NATO/Russian war over the past few days.

I didn't noticed big difference in between last few days and last few months about "evil Russia" from USA and UK press.
Yet I noticed some anti Germany sentiment after Minsk 2.

Unlike what they say about Mariupol and the land bridge, I think it is more plausible that next point of conflagration will be Kharkov. This doesn't mean that I support war, it is just my projection where will be the next front line.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

THe thing is. The old Russian bombers dont have to be lesser than the B2. It all Depends on how the Tools are being used.

No one knows if the B2 is any good against Russian Technology. We only know that the B2 Works against Ours.

If the B2 cant deliver its goods, but the Russian bomber can. You would know who spent their Money well.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

THe thing is. The old Russian bombers dont have to be lesser than the B2. It all Depends on how the Tools are being used.

No one knows if the B2 is any good against Russian Technology. We only know that the B2 Works against Ours.

If the B2 cant deliver its goods, but the Russian bomber can. You would know who spendt well.

I don't see the Tu-95 penetrating very far (if at all) into U.S. Airspace unnoticed. The thing looks like an air whale on radar.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

THe thing is. The old Russian bombers dont have to be lesser than the B2. It all Depends on how the Tools are being used.

No one knows if the B2 is any good against Russian Technology. We only know that the B2 Works against Ours.

If the B2 cant deliver its goods, but the Russian bomber can. You would know who spendt well.

I don't see the Tu-95 penetrating very far (if at all) into U.S. Airspace unnoticed. The thing looks like an air whale on radar.

How do you know at what stage in an attack that Russia will use their Tu-95?

It all Depends on how the stage is set for the Tu-95. It wont fly a first strike attack against the US or EU. Even they know that. That sure would be a Waste of nucklear weapons.