If Mariupol falls, we could end up at war with Russia.

I am gonna point out the other elephant in the room. If Russia is attacked by Nato/US the China will get involved on the Russian side. Just because China is silent do not mean they are not allied with Russia in this.

The masters of US (FED/IMF) wanted to isolate China by forcing Russia to cave to their will. They lost the game and now Russia and China are economically building more and more ties/deals and the latest is the BRICS bank. The gold backed Yuan is the mass destruction weapon against the Petro dollar and when they decide, they cannot buy cheap gold from US, then they will use it. And then the people will notice the banking mafia selling of gold behind the back and the news purposely underreporting. The biggest theft in history by the banking mafia and politicians working against the people.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Also you seem to be a bit confused here as NATO is more than just the US, so they wouldn't be fighting just the US.

On the other hand, Russia will not fight alone with NATO either. It will be a Mega War using any and every tool in the kitty.

And, the US allies like Saudi, UAE and Qatar will join Russia in fight against the REAL INFIDELS. Whole of Middle East including Turkey and Greece will sell out NATO like a cheap whore no good for the bad agenda anymore.

IF that is so then Either kiss PUTIN or Russia as we know it GOOD BYE.
It won't take LONG but I do NOT think they want a war any more than the west over Putin's push. THEY will probably slap up another wall across the Crimea and call it a day.
They won't give up that port.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

That's right tsurfer you said it "defence teams."

Wrong, you may want to read it again. Nowhere did I say anything about teams, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

" That's what you do when Americans are surrounding your country with military bases and picking former territories off, you defend yourself.

And exactly what bases does the US have that surround Russia, and what territories have the US been picking off, or were you saying Russia was picking off surrounding territories around them and that's why Ukraine is defending themselves, because that is what is happening...so glad you finally have come around to what is happening.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The thing is if Russia invades Ukraine. There is nothing NATO can do to stop it without a nucklear confrontation.

NATO cant go in because Russia is already in the east. Unles Russia and the US agree to divide Ukriane in two like they did With Germany after ww2.

Russia have the upper hand in Ukraine because they are already in. The USNATO diplomats in Ukriane have no authority. They can be bombed without retaliation. It is not a attack on NATO even if their diplomats are in Ukraine.

a reply to: victor7

On the other hand, Russia will not fight alone with NATO either. It will be a Mega War using any and every tool in the kitty.

And other countries aren't going to fight a war that Russia started and doesn't involve them.

a reply to: TheGreazel

I love VICE. They get video from both sides of the conflict.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

THIS is why Russia IS surrounded, so for good reason,as things have turned out.
Our predatory fainacial systems not with standing Russia IS contained.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I am gonna point out the other elephant in the room. If Russia is attacked by Nato/US the China will get involved on the Russian side. Just because China is silent do not mean they are not allied with Russia in this.

And do you think China won't see this as a way to regain land that Russia took from them already?

China still holds a grudge over parts of Siberia, so China can see a way of taking back what's theirs because as Putin has shown it is okay to retake what was yours at some point in history no matter the outcome. Just look at Crimea.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

The thing is if Russia invades Ukraine. There is nothing NATO can do to stop it without a nucklear confrontation.

NATO cant go in because Russia is already in the east. Unles Russia and the US agree to divide Ukriane in two like they did With Germany after ww2.

Russia have the upper hand in Ukraine because they are already in. The USNATO diplomats in Ukriane have no authority. They can be bombed without retaliation. It is not a attack on NATO even if their diplomats are in Ukraine.

I hate to admit it but you're probably right. Because Ukraine gave up it's Nuclear arsenal in the Budapest Agreement, Putin only needed to wipe his arse with said agreement, and invade with impunity and without fear of REAL retaliation because nobody is willing to risk nuclear war over Ukraine.

The sad thing is, this may embolden him to make advances into other non-nuclear nations and expand Russia's borders even more.

So it's a catch-22 all around.

a reply to: spy66

They have non destructive ways that are advanced to direct EMP blasts to a given area,they have carbon fiber bombs we used on Iraq.
We no longer need nukes to stop anyone.
AND unless YOU know what is in orbit I don't think a fair assesment could be done, which is as intended.
We look to WIN not a fair fight.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I love VICE. They get video from both sides of the conflict.

Not according to some here on ATS...it is a biased news source.

Of course I agree with you.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

EMP for Russia is a two decade old toy, will apply in other direction too.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I love VICE. They get video from both sides of the conflict.

Not according to some here on ATS...it is a biased news source.

Of course I agree with you.

I'm sure there's a slight bias. They're a mostly western news source, but I applaud their attempts to remain neutral despite their points of origin.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You do understand the core different between Gaddafi or Saddam and Putin? Putin has NUCLEAR weapon. And Russia has the biggest amount of nuclear weapons. If nato starts a war with Russia, bye bye Europe. Do you see now why going into a war with Russia will not result in NATO's victory? But i mean, you obviously don't care, you are from the U.S, you want the Europeans to fight that war for you guys. I haven't met a single European on here that's advocating a war with Russia as much as people from the U.S...strange, right?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Seems to me if the Crimeans are happy with the outcome of the vote, as they appear to be, then it doesn't matter what you, Washington, or anyone else thinks about it.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: cavtrooper7

EMP for Russia is a two decade old toy, will apply in other direction too.

champ

Microwave burst not EMP.

a reply to: victor7

I know.
But you haven't got delivery systems that can penetrate US defenses to deliver them ENMASSE and we do.
A VERY bad idea to go that route,take your port and GO home.
You don't need the land and you will pay too high a price.
YOU should have allied with us against China instead of going Communist in THE first place.
YOU will need us any way to exploit your lands that just sit there in the cold.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: PeterMcFly

Remember the Parker Brothers's game named Risk?

Yep, problem is though the only one's that would join Russia know that with even their help Russia still can't take NATO on in a full war.

It would take russia China India and Pakistan just to make it a challenge, though the west would still win.

Us naval superiority is beyond the scope of all those countries ability to fight.

Us air superiority is a given.

The west has the best tanks on earth.

And we now have the trophy system to defeat all anti tank munitions.

The red bear really doesn't want to fight the west.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: joho99

Interesting reading, but all I will say is be prepared for the Prop Russian crap storm that will hit your thread like a hurricane.

As soon as the Azov Battalion was mentioned the Nazi flood wave is coming. Just a little friendly advice from someone who has dealt with that storm many times already.

And honestly Russia doesn't have the juevos to fight NATO, and they know this which is why they won't try to annex any other part of Ukraine...at least for now.

Nor Sadam or Gadafi backed Down from the US what makes you so sure that Russia will?

And you say that we should have stopped Putin a long time ago. Like when, and how?

Do you really think NATO will come out of a war With Russia as Victors? What kind of a world do you People live in?

People have got to be out of their minds if they think going to war With Russia is a option on the table. That is insane.

Why?

Russia is outmatched in every aspect by the west. Why would it be insane?