Which came first? Civilization or Religion?

a reply to: Tangerine

Actually, the 'relative happiness' in the Scandinavian countries may or may not be connected to their moral code. I have no idea.

A possible explanation could be 'diversity' related. Less stress, more contentment. If it is moral related, again, I'm not privy to it.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Tangerine

Actually, the 'relative happiness' in the Scandinavian countries may or may not be connected to their moral code. I have no idea.

A possible explanation could be 'diversity' related. Less stress, more contentment. If it is moral related, again, I'm not privy to it.

Then why assume that the troubles in our society are due to lack of a moral code?

a reply to: Tangerine

Seriously? You use my lack of knowledge of Scandinavia as an argument against my premise??

Pretty damn weak.

You've actually admitted to the 'hell in a hand-basket' yet see no correlation with morals? OK!

What's your explanation then?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Tangerine

Seriously? You use my lack of knowledge of Scandinavia as an argument against my premise??

Pretty damn weak.

You've actually admitted to the 'hell in a hand-basket' yet see no correlation with morals? OK!

What's your explanation then?

There's a difference between individual morals and a written moral code, I'm sure you will agree. In fact, there are multiple moral codes at work. It seems that you're referring to the 10 Commandments (correct me if I'm wrong). To facilitate serious discussion, could you state which specific moral code(s) you're talking about? We can go from there.

a reply to: Tangerine

Nope. I feel, judging by your posts on this thread, that your are looking for out-of-the-way, obscure points- Industrial age, Scandinavian cultures- to pick at the premise rather addressing it directly.

I know of no other broadly used 'moral code' than that named the "Ten Commandments" used in western civilization to any degree. PERIOD.

There probably are other moral codes out there, no doubt. Many are but paraphrased out of the apparent original "published" version known as the Ten Commandments.

Whether they or some of them came from an earlier source or not isn't germane. The collation, codifying and dissemination of them is Christian sourced, which merits acknowledgement.

Many have individual moral codes. Most of those individual codes likely harmonize with the 'original' ones.

Perfect? Of course not. Workable? Apparently so. That's the premise. Nothing stated so far has even dented that premise, from my point of view.

The onus is on you to show cause to your disagreement to it. Not on me....

a reply to: nwtrucker

I know of no other broadly used 'moral code' than that named the "Ten Commandments" used in western civilization to any degree. PERIOD.

Used? lol...

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Christians regularly fail many of those / disregard them entirely.

How are those even moral genius to begin with!? Don't swear god's name, don't carve an image of god, don't lust over your neighbors Corvette, don't work on the Sabbath, you have to believe in god...

Um. Yeah. Okay. Those just blew my mind. Surely there is no greater moral thought. Definitely came from an omniscient and omnibenevloent god. We definitely cannot find greater moral thought from non-religious people.

Good grief.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Yep, all true. No argument from me.

Yet, the premise still hold true...

How can that be??? Figure it out for yourself...

a reply to: nwtrucker

I would like to add that the punishment for not following most of those Ten Commandments was being stoned to death or being murdered in some other way. Ten Commandments come from the OT, and anyone, such as myself, who is familiar with the OT should know that. To pawn this off as moral to begin with is absolutely immoral.

a reply to: nwtrucker

There probably are other moral codes out there, no doubt. Many are but paraphrased out of the apparent original "published" version known as the Ten Commandments.

Probably!? You probably need to read more. Read more beyond the Bible.

Compare the very different, and vastly superior, moral code of the Jainists to the Ten Commandments I just posted:

'Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Don't read the bible. I'm not a Christian.

I'd say the stoning era is pulling it out of the past...just a bit?? ) A little evolving since then? Hmm?

a reply to: nwtrucker

You realize the very first commandment is commanding you to believe in this god and this religion.

I guess you're failing to follow the very 'moral code' you're attempting to argue everyone is more or less following.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Yep, that one I put aside....

Most of them are pretty cool.....

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Look, I'm fully aware you have no interest in anything other than applying diminutives to this view.

I've said my piece on it. From this point on, all I will do is point out the errors in yours...

a reply to: nwtrucker

Cool. I'm going to do the same. Which is easy as they are full of errors.

Most of them are pretty cool.....

I don't settle for 'pretty cool' when it comes to my morality.

Yep, that one I put aside....

Which is literally not an option in that 'moral code'.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: nwtrucker

I know of no other broadly used 'moral code' than that named the "Ten Commandments" used in western civilization to any degree. PERIOD.

Used? lol...

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Christians regularly fail many of those / disregard them entirely.

How are those even moral genius to begin with!? Don't swear god's name, don't carve an image of god, don't lust over your neighbors Corvette, don't work on the Sabbath, you have to believe in god...

Um. Yeah. Okay. Those just blew my mind. Surely there is no greater moral thought. Definitely came from an omniscient and omnibenevloent god. We definitely cannot find greater moral thought from non-religious people.

Good grief.

I agree. It would seem that in order for the OP's hypothesis to stand, he would have to be able to cite a society with the same 10 commandments declared THE moral code where people pretty much obey that code and have better lives. Of course "obey" and "better lives" would have to be defined, too. Any contenders?

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Guffaw. You take yourself a wee bit too seriously.

Let's see YOUR moral code then if cool doesn't cut it...LMAO.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Don't read the bible. I'm not a Christian.

I'd say the stoning era is pulling it out of the past...just a bit??

) A little evolving since then? Hmm?

Actually, Christian Reconstructionists call for a return to literal OT law, including stoning.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Do I take morality seriously?

I'm guilty of this, yes.

If you took it more seriously perhaps you'd have a different viewpoint than you do.

a reply to: Tangerine

Actually, Christian Reconstructionists call for a return to literal OT law, including stoning.

I wonder how many Christians [other than the Reconstructionists] would actually like to live in that society.

That would play out like a horror movie.

a reply to: Tangerine

They've been posted, printed in gov't buildings all over the nation. None other have, that I've seen.

Pretty much prima facie evidence that they have been the moral code of the U.S. for quite a while. At least until recently. Which connects with the decay of this society.

I stated a number of times they were imperfect, yet workable.

All I see from you two is continued regurgitation of the imperfections.

Amusing, but losing my interest-probably others as well- so unless you can come up with a variation to the theme, I will retire from this thread...G'nite.