Why is it OK for blacks to self-segregate themselves, and why is it acceptable?

a reply to: thesmokingman

because its what the other people secretly want but are to afraid to say lol

i agree
there could be a jet
japaneese entertainment tv there is a bet
black entertainment tv
they got an espanol tv
spanish entertainment tv


But boy oh boy the stuff would fly if some one came out with wet
white entertainment tv
or cat
caucasion american tv

a reply to: American-philosopher

uh excuse me the guy from hooty and the blowfish is a country singer too . black people can sing country.
and is j date really only white people .......really

Everyone seeks out people they identify with. It's natural and normal.

You see, I see the double standard - but I find it necessary and just. All of the things that were set up that is being complained about - was necessary to help a group of people rise above the drudgery and misery - everyone not like them was waging on them. Even in the entertainment field. BET serves a purpose. Do I think they'd LOVE, absolutely love seeing their shows on a prime time station? As a series on HBO? Sure they would. But who wants to listen to all the white people b!tch about black culture being shoved in their face? I know what I'm talking about, my Step-father used to be outraged about the Cosby show and when I started watching The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and In living color - my mother had to go to bat for me just to be allowed to watch it. Certain racist people STILL wage the war. On both sides I'm sure, but being white - I grew up on the white racism side and it sickened me. They try to justify their wrongness, in teaching their children the same hate to justify their own as being right.

Those provisions HAD to be created to give them the step up they needed to get on the road to being truly equal and free. And no, I don't think they are truly equal and free - if it bothers people they have their own cultural groups to congregate in, their own cultural music - and their not happy with their all white country clubs, yacht clubs, and all white communities. White people have NO problem, self segregating themselves also. They only have a problem when they see black people doing it too. As though it's not normal to be with people who share your customs and beliefs and shared history.

Shame on ALL of us, for not getting there by now. For not being able to look at another human being, and recognize their integral worth as being human - despite skin color or belief. Because racist people sure as hell still have a problem with the help certain people receive due to the circumstances of life they were born into. It doesn't even have to be about skin color. Hell, all one has to do to see how deep the problem goes, is look at how wealthy people view the poor and the help they receive through the government. Or Christians view Muslims. Bigoted.

I think it's a problem, and it's a grave mental illness people try to instil in their young. On all sides of course, the problem is epidemic across all race, gender, and belief.

CdT

a reply to: Sremmos80

what ever he didnt mention riots or anything and he is right
case in point .........black power.......you hear a black man say this he is a hero an educator of his people he can sit kids around talk about black culture black pride and black history and this man will be a leader of the black community
And those are the very words they use ..black community.

Now a white guy says white power and teaches white children about white pride white culture and white history
and how to help the white community ................well this man is a racist.......political correctness run amok

Why doesn't everyone stop dodging the main question or deflecting it with "well there's a Muslim this or Christian that" and answer the question at hand: Why is it not ok for there to be a Straight White Male Pride Day, or even White Male Pride Day, OR just Male Pride Day?

I'm not racist - or sexist - but I'm certainly tired of groups claiming to promote black/asian/native/womens/gay/other rights but if I started up and promoted a group to do the same thing for strictly white males I'd be deemed racist and sexist.

Oh and before anyone says "You have this thing here already" or "What about that group over there you guys have?"....Sure...someone mentioned CMT (lol) or christianmingle or a few examples, basically implying "you white guys have enough already". With all due respect, blacks have an entire history MONTH. What if we declared a white history month (and actually made it equally official)? Gays start parades and court cases fighting for their rights to trump others. Feminists, well, we don't need to get into that. But if white males did any of this...

Personally I think most of the people behind these movements are in it for the money, the 2nd largest percentage of people in these movements are in it "just to be a part of something" and I'd wager less than 25% actually care more than a wink about the problem/event/group.

I'll even use the trumped up Selma bs at the Oscars last night as proof of it. Tell me for a second that Oprah didn't make it solely for the money (the vast majority of people know MLK) or John Legend and Common didn't do that big song just for the money (with black people walking through a bridge like somehow THEIR rights were violated). MLK was/is a legend in American history and he stood for great things, and his namesake continues his work, but profiteering from his name is BS...Oprah is a fake. The whole bridge stunt was ridiculous and insulting.

Maybe I'm a hair off topic, but maybe not. Black people, other minorities, basically anyone who isn't a straight white male can pull off whatever wild stunt or protest or group or event they want but they would call me a racist if I wanted to do the same. Imagine if one of the white performers last night at the Oscars had large groups of white people walking through that bridge (after all, isn't the bridge of a symbol of equality and unity?). Just think about that....White people should be able to ceremoniously walk through a symbol of unity the same as Asian, Native, Black, etc.

Imagine the look on Oprah's face....

originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
Everyone seeks out people they identify with. It's natural and normal.

Shame on ALL of us, for not getting there by now. For not being able to look at another human being, and recognize their integral worth as being human - despite skin color or belief. Because racist people sure as hell still have a problem with the help certain people receive due to the circumstances of life they were born into. It doesn't even have to be about skin color. Hell, all one has to do to see how deep the problem goes, is look at how wealthy people view the poor and the help they receive through the government. Or Christians view Muslims. Bigoted.

I don't like to post twice in a row but I missed this.
What about how the poor view the wealthy and any benefits they get in life?
What about how Muslims view Christians?
Or Blacks view Whites?
How feminists view men?

I don't think it's fair to pretend that only certain groups are judged or that any one group deserves any more recognition or special treatment than another.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Because there is no such thing as ' white culture '.

But there is such a thing as Black Culture, or Asian culture or whatever.

And besides, any minority group that has historically suffered at the hands of the majority is going to carve themselves out a little slice of the pie that's just for them.

That would be why. And no I'm not stating that white people are racist or have a problem with minorities or anything like that, it's just a product of history that's all.

~Tenth

Im shocked this thread hasn't been taken down, if it were mine it would be gone. That's the only thing about ATS I don't like, overly politically correct mods take down my threads and my roommate is black, its a shame that a white or black person cant bring up truths about the black race without being called racist by a mod that thinks slavery still exists is the U.S. God forbid we talk about present day slavery in Africa.

originally posted by: Foderalover
Im shocked this thread hasn't been taken down, if it were mine it would be gone. That's the only thing about ATS I don't like, overly politically correct mods take down my threads and my roommate is black, its a shame that a white or black person cant bring up truths about the black race without being called racist by a mod that thinks slavery still exists is the U.S. God forbid we talk about present day slavery in Africa.

Um....tell us WHY you think this thread should be taken down?.....On what basis?

a reply to: Foderalover

It hasn't been taken down yet - because as of right now - the discussion is still within T&C's. Intelligent, fair, no personal attacks as of yet being issued. As of right now, this is a good discussion thread on the issue of racism. It's a discussion that needs to be hashed out until it can be resolved. However, it's hard to keep these sorts of threads T&C when the thread starts deteriorating into personal attacks and angst. Fortunately as of right now - this thread is still on track.

Knock on wood.

CdT

a reply to: stolencar18

I'm not racist - or sexist - but I'm certainly tired of groups claiming to promote black/asian/native/womens/gay/other rights but if I started up and promoted a group to do the same thing for strictly white males I'd be deemed racist and sexist.

I don't think you would be deemed racist and sexist. You would be largely ignored and deemed slightly stupid however.

There are plenty of Male organizations all over the place and they are called fraternal lodges like the Elks,Concatenated Order of Hoo-Hoo, masons, Eagles, Knights of Columbus, DeMolay, Moose, Odd Fellows, etc. and to me they do seem Boy scoutish and adolescentlly foolish but they do some good charitable work and they are to be commended for that.....but their main purpose is to provide an environment where you can get completely hammered on alcohol and be supported by other drunks. I know....Fraternal order of Hoover Users, here....suck it up amigo...

a reply to: stolencar18

I agree.

I think all of the above which you mentioned - stems from the same systemic problem.

My hope, is that once we as a collective rise above hating anyone because they are different for any reason - all of these problems will go away with one big swoop.

I just don't know how many generations of social evolution - that's going to take. Not in my lifetime.

CdT

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: thesmokingman

Because there is no such thing as ' white culture '.

But there is such a thing as Black Culture, or Asian culture or whatever.

And besides, any minority group that has historically suffered at the hands of the majority is going to carve themselves out a little slice of the pie that's just for them.

That would be why. And no I'm not stating that white people are racist or have a problem with minorities or anything like that, it's just a product of history that's all.

~Tenth

As I said before I agree with this point, but for the same reason there isn't a "white" culture, why there should be a "black" culture and not an afro-american culture which is much better in therms of definition and kills the skin-color argument?
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of black skinned people who aren't at all related to afro-american culture, so no reason to reserve the therm for a group which isn't all (after all asian culture isn't yellow culture, is it?).
Having a black-only anything is equal to a white-only anything. If one is racist so is the other one.

originally posted by: Mastronaut

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: thesmokingman

Because there is no such thing as ' white culture '.

But there is such a thing as Black Culture, or Asian culture or whatever.

And besides, any minority group that has historically suffered at the hands of the majority is going to carve themselves out a little slice of the pie that's just for them.

That would be why. And no I'm not stating that white people are racist or have a problem with minorities or anything like that, it's just a product of history that's all.

~Tenth

As I said before I agree with this point, but for the same reason there isn't a "white" culture, why there should be a "black" culture and not an afro-american culture which is much better in therms of definition and kills the skin-color argument?
I'm pretty sure there are a lot of black skinned people who aren't at all related to afro-american culture, so no reason to reserve the therm for a group which isn't all (after all asian culture isn't yellow culture, is it?).
Having a black-only anything is equal to a white-only anything. If one is racist so is the other one.

I hope we, as a society, don't go off the deep end with all that stuff. I'm too old and tired to have to identify with the german/dutch/irish/maori & a smidgeon of native american culture...

The girl I dated in the early '70s and her three older brothers (all great guys and good friends) identified themselves as black and I never really thought much about it one way or the other.

What bothers me is when people push their way of thinking automatically into defining how I think or act.

Back when I was still able to work a guy that worked close to me on our production line got put on work release for being behind on his child support. His girlfriend had gotten in trouble and was on house arrest for six months because of her two small kids with no local family (he wasn't their father).

He didn't have any family closer than about 80 miles away and I knew that the local jail had nothing but vending machines for the work release section. The guy that was his ride to work never wanted to do more than pick him up or drop him off so he never got the chance to buy food and wouldn't have been allowed to bring it into the jail, anyway.

I talked to my wife about it and started bringing a couple of extra sandwiches, a couple of generic soft drinks and some kind of snack so he could eat some real food during the day, at least. After a couple of weeks he just started giving me $5 of Friday to cover whatever I picked up.

I was more than a little surprised how much it upset me when a woman on our line asked me what I was trying to "prove". At first I didn't get it. Since my buddy and I weren't the same race she assumed that I had some kind of ulterior motive or was on some kind of guilt trip. Things are pretty friggin' sad when you can't do a friend a favor just because that's what friends DO!

a reply to: CornShucker

It's a sensible story, I enjoyed it.

I identify myself as white, being white, and I have no problems in recognizing there is no white culture. Culture isn't based on the color of the skin nor is friendship. I don't come from a colonialist country (well a failed one probably, but not one of the big ones) so I guess I feel less "guilty" than maybe some british, french or belgian towards african people.

I have been in places where I was the only white guy, I can understand what being in a minority means and in some cases I really felt the "hate" that might come with divisions that have been built because of slavery/invasion. I still don't think that we should react because of hatred because it's a runaway effect. But I'm totally fed up with BS such as politically correctness which does nothing but segregate more the people.
If the N word is banned then nobody should use it, not just "whites". If cultures want to be identified then their origin should be used, at least it has a merit. Stop using color, it's not a unique feature of a culture, use better words that have no ties with the violence in the past.

This is not to say we should forget, but we should go over it or it will be worse for everyone. People are the same everywhere, equal rights, equal respect. It's harder for some minority, but using the racism card isn't going to help and often ends up becoming racism vs racism and guess who wins? Yep, the majority or the bullys.

originally posted by: Mastronaut



This is not to say we should forget, but we should go over it or it will be worse for everyone. People are the same everywhere, equal rights, equal respect. It's harder for some minority, but using the racism card isn't going to help and often ends up becoming racism vs racism and guess who wins? Yep, the majority or the bullys.

You want the Jews to forget the holocaust? Slavery of Black Americans, Near genocide of Native Americans.
Do you want people to just ignore their common heritage? Son, you have a problem, and I think I know what it is.

Their past is part of their culture. And people are not the same everywhere as long as racism and prejudice persist and growing in America.

Want Peace? Work for JUSTICE!

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: thesmokingman

Because there is no such thing as ' white culture '.

But there is such a thing as Black Culture, or Asian culture or whatever.

And besides, any minority group that has historically suffered at the hands of the majority is going to carve themselves out a little slice of the pie that's just for them.

That would be why. And no I'm not stating that white people are racist or have a problem with minorities or anything like that, it's just a product of history that's all.

~Tenth

Would you care to explain what Black and Asian Culture is? Are you talking about real culture or American Sub Cultures? Just to clarify...

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: Mastronaut



This is not to say we should forget, but we should go over it or it will be worse for everyone. People are the same everywhere, equal rights, equal respect. It's harder for some minority, but using the racism card isn't going to help and often ends up becoming racism vs racism and guess who wins? Yep, the majority or the bullys.

You want the Jews to forget the holocaust? Slavery of Black Americans, Near genocide of Native Americans.
Do you want people to just ignore their common heritage? Son, you have a problem, and I think I know what it is.

Their past is part of their culture. And people are not the same everywhere as long as racism and prejudice persist and growing in America.

Want Peace? Work for JUSTICE!

Define justice. How do Jews get justice for the holocaust? How do blacks get justice for slavery (or, for that matter, how do any other races or sexes or sectors of society who were enslaved get justice)? How do Natives get justice?

What is justice for these people? For the most part, the people who committed these atrocities are long gone and the people alive now a days (here comes my ban, I'm sure) didn't actually go through the atrocities themselves. Some did, yes. Some very elderly people, and yes, a very VERY small group of people nowadays are still treated similarly, but let's be honest - the average everyday native or black person or jew is the same as us. The whole "born into despair" line is (in my opinion) a line of BS in most cases. I concede that some were - but for most blacks or jews or (insert group name here) in this world nowadays...they didn't live through a holocaust or live as a slave or get whipped every day.

My personal two cents is that there are people within every race and both sexes that try to use their race/sex (even age) as a tool to stand above others or proclaim they are better than the rest, more deserving than the rest, etc. Just using blacks as an example (forgive me if this sounds racist), if black people quit being racist and made a collective decision to live as part of the world (aren't we all the same, after all?) instead of trying to differentiate themselves a lot of this problem would go away. Most of the racism/sexism/discrimination is driven by those claiming to be victims.

a reply to: Mastronaut

You're probably right about the language. It should be non exclusive to color.



~Tenth

a reply to: jheated5

Real culture, not American sub culture.

Actually American sub culture is probably what ruined a lot of of actual culture. The whole melting pot ideal is what's turned everybody into 'Americans' instead of different peoples united under a common cause.

That's not the thread though, just a thought. Race and culture are the same for me. A set of ideals, likes, dislikes etc, created out of specific groups of people are are or were living, in the same environment, working through the same challenges.

That's all culture has ever been really. White people don't have 'culture' in that sense. They have nationalism and patriotism.

The people of the UK have their own culture, the Irish have their own culture, Canadians have their own culture. It's not based on anything else but the areas from which they came. It's not identified by skin color.

We defined those cultures by skin color and other kinds of things, which I've been doing, wrongly I might add for decades now.

~Tenth