Why is it OK for blacks to self-segregate themselves, and why is it acceptable?

a reply to: ketsuko

Well for me I don't think I would have a problem if white people wanted to meet and discuss white people problems per say if that was the subject matter and the reason for said group. I am not white, so it doesn't really effect me in the micro sense. but if this group is meeting about boats and boating. I would feel they would need to be inclusive.

I think a culture of people should be able to meet and discuss things that are happening for their said culture. If there was an Irish that wanted to meet. I wouldn't feel slighted I am not Irish.

a reply to: olaru12

Correction then we should be equal

a reply to: Edumakated

Fantastically put.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

Actually, I can start to think of some. These days, it is increasingly difficult for us to have things that are celebratory of our own culture without being hounded for it. We are not allowed to be proud of being who we are. You know, all the constant reminders to check our white privilege.

Provide an example. There used to be a white only Christian group called the Ku Klux Klan.

Please define the "white culture" that needs to be celebrated and its own association? Where are white people being denied access to the things they like culturally?

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

Actually, I can start to think of some. These days, it is increasingly difficult for us to have things that are celebratory of our own culture without being hounded for it. We are not allowed to be proud of being who we are. You know, all the constant reminders to check our white privilege.

Provide an example. There used to be a white only Christian group called the Ku Klux Klan.

Please define the "white culture" that needs to be celebrated and its own association? Where are white people being denied access to the things they like culturally?

AND then AND now there is a Blcak group called the Black Panthers, that if I remember correctly threatened great violence against WHITES after the trayvon martin thing and after the michael brown thing.

a reply to: Edumakated

Interesting, but let's reverse the stuff, and let say in a country where white were the minority, would it be ok to you if they make exclusive white only clubs? In my mind neither is right.

What do you think?

I think that while you can more or less define "blacks" as Afro-american with an underlying similar culture I'd see a very hard time defining a white culture which is something different than colonial-racist. "Whites" are basically the europeans which have very different cultures which have been exported everywhere. So I'd expect a white channel in an asian or african country, but really not one in the USA or EU.

However I think that using the color is wrong. If there was an Irish or Italian TV I guess it wouldn't be a scandal.

There have been a few White only scholarships....
Lame Wikipedia Link

The Whites Only Scholarship - Founded in 2004 by Jason Mattera, a Hispanic Roger Williams University student and member of the school Republican Party. The scholarship was a proposal to parody and highlight what Mattera perceives as inequity and unfairness of racial preferences at his school and other educational institutions in America.

KOPSES - A similar scholarship was offered two months later at the University of Missouri by Colin Kerr, a sophomore. While Kerr consulted with Mattera before the release of the scholarship, he maintains it was independent project planned months before the release of scholarship at Roger Williams. Under the auspices of a group called the Kerr-Otis Partnership for Socio-Economic Scholarships (KOPSES), Kerr echoed similar arguments to that of Mattera, though his scholarship eligibility requirement of 1/8 European-American descent mirrored that of the University of Missouri-Columbia's criteria for minority status.

CARS - The trend in more sophisticated race-based scholarship protests continued when a white scholarship was offered at Boston University, known as the Caucasian Achievement and Recognition Scholarship. Similar to the KOPSES scholarship, the CARS scholarship required applicants to have at least 1/4 Caucasian heritage

1994 The first Court Ordered White Only Scholarships was created at Historically Black Colleges in Alabama - The Knight litigation commenced on January 15, 1981, when John F. Knight, Jr., and a class of other alumni, students, and faculty members of Alabama State University (ASU) filed suit in the Middle District of Alabama to attack alleged vestiges of segregation in public higher education. Knight v. Alabama, 900 F. Supp. 272, .280 (N.D. Ala. 1995) ("Knight II"). The "other-race" scholarships created at ASU pursuant to the Court's 1995 Decree in Knight II violate their rights under the Fourteenth Amendment and 42 U.S.C. § 1981, § 1983, and § 2000d.

When I went to a predominantly African-American University for a semester there was a scholarship available of ~$400.00/semester available if you were white (minority grant or scholarship, I don't recall as it has been a while... and I enrolled too late to apply for it.)

a reply to: Edumakated

Nope, nothing like that. Just the idea that being white isn't something you should feel guilty about.

Isn't that why there are so many support groups for minorities? Because they felt left out and lost and like they were put down by the culture at large? I mean, you have the NAACP, La Raza (mean the race btw), and others like them. You have scholarship programs for people with minority blood.

Ok, fine, but if white folks want to get together and not have to automatically check our privilege at the door it must automatically equal KKK ... and you wonder why we might want to start our own places of refuge?

Generations ago the english dumped crims in Australia. Torn away from loved ones, granted no where near as bad as slavery in the US, but still dodgy if you ask me. We don't whinge about it, instead we've built a fairly decent and open society remembering the past and trying to learn from it.

The black problem in the US however does worry me greatly. I hate to even call it a black problem, but it is what it is.
Martin Luther King might of just as well been better off taking a whizz on a tree and talked about 'life' in a drunken haze to some other drunk, because his message has been completely lost. Forgotten. It irritates me no end because it seemed to have made a difference in those following years and things were moving in the right direction.

Call me old fashioned, but I think rap music should take a massive part of the blame for the state of things. (Dont get me wrong, some of it is excellent). For the most part the constant bars about 'n' this and 'n' that, gangs, drugs, dealers, gangs, guns, violence, being hard, etc. The kids that grow up in these homes breathing that stuff, and are too young to often understand what many rappers are trying to say between the lines, instead just feeling the anger side of things in the delivery of the words and mimic it on the streets. They need to move on to help themselves (that sounds really bad to say that) because I think things were so much doing so much better 30 years ago, which is horrifying when you think about it. I hate the 'n' word, we all get it, but when they use it and hold it against everyone else it does nothing but perpetuate the problem. Sure much of it is a symptom of economic factors, but that is nation wide for all anyway. Banding together in areas of low employment I just don't understand, sure I get it is hard to move - but being a parent is hard so deal with it, we all have to. Branch into more diverse neighbourhoods if you actually want to give your children a fighting chance at what MLK was striving for otherwise don't be surprised when they become a gang banger.

Where is the next MLK going to come from? They are desperately needed right now to heal this onslaught of residual anger, they need to forgive the past to break this cycle, then they need to forgive themselves for the gang mentality and self deprevation and needlessly mentally caging children in a country where everyone else is ready and willing for openness.

originally posted by: Qumulys
Generations ago the english dumped crims in Australia. Torn away from loved ones, granted no where near as bad as slavery in the US, but still dodgy if you ask me. We don't whinge about it, instead we've built a fairly decent and open society remembering the past and trying to learn from it.

The black problem in the US however does worry me greatly. I hate to even call it a black problem, but it is what it is.
Martin Luther King might of just as well been better off taking a whizz on a tree and talked about 'life' in a drunken haze to some other drunk, because his message has been completely lost. Forgotten. It irritates me no end because it seemed to have made a difference in those following years and things were moving in the right direction.

Call me old fashioned, but I think rap music should take a massive part of the blame for the state of things. (Dont get me wrong, some of it is excellent). For the most part the constant bars about 'n' this and 'n' that, gangs, drugs, dealers, gangs, guns, violence, being hard, etc. The kids that grow up in these homes breathing that stuff, and are too young to often understand what many rappers are trying to say between the lines, instead just feeling the anger side of things in the delivery of the words and mimic it on the streets. They need to move on to help themselves (that sounds really bad to say that) because I think things were so much doing so much better 30 years ago, which is horrifying when you think about it. I hate the 'n' word, we all get it, but when they use it and hold it against everyone else it does nothing but perpetuate the problem. Sure much of it is a symptom of economic factors, but that is nation wide for all anyway. Banding together in areas of low employment I just don't understand, sure I get it is hard to move - but being a parent is hard so deal with it, we all have to. Branch into more diverse neighbourhoods if you actually want to give your children a fighting chance at what MLK was striving for otherwise don't be surprised when they become a gang banger.

Where is the next MLK going to come from? They are desperately needed right now to heal this onslaught of residual anger, they need to forgive the past to break this cycle, then they need to forgive themselves for the gang mentality and self deprevation and needlessly mentally caging children in a country where everyone else is ready and willing for openness.

Well said! It is also becoming common place for whites to start calling themselves honkies, as if it funny or cool to do. I hear it all the time on the radio and occassionally on television as well. I think a racial slur is a racial slur is a racial slur......

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

Nope, nothing like that. Just the idea that being white isn't something you should feel guilty about.

Isn't that why there are so many support groups for minorities? Because they felt left out and lost and like they were put down by the culture at large? I mean, you have the NAACP, La Raza (mean the race btw), and others like them. You have scholarship programs for people with minority blood.

Ok, fine, but if white folks want to get together and not have to automatically check our privilege at the door it must automatically equal KKK ... and you wonder why we might want to start our own places of refuge?

I don't believe white folks should have feel guilty. I can't help you are allowing PC liberals to hit you over the head with white guilt.

originally posted by: Mastronaut
I think that while you can more or less define "blacks" as Afro-american with an underlying similar culture I'd see a very hard time defining a white culture which is something different than colonial-racist. "Whites" are basically the europeans which have very different cultures which have been exported everywhere. So I'd expect a white channel in an asian or african country, but really not one in the USA or EU.

However I think that using the color is wrong. If there was an Irish or Italian TV I guess it wouldn't be a scandal.

Anytime I hear white folks start talking about stuff like the OP, it is a dog whistle to me for racism. I'd have no problem with a Scottish organization or an Irish organization which for the most part are going to be 100% white. However, just claiming some generic "white culture" is a bunch of BS.

a reply to: thesmokingman

There is double standard. Lets not ignore the fact the dreaded "N" word is thrown around within the black community like it's being replaced by the word "brother". Yet all hell would break loose if whites started using it when meeting blacks! When African Americans can claim they're not being treated equally, yet use a term that goes back to slavery to describe themselves as being less than equal, it only keeps themselves from rising above it all. Their main claim is for equality and to be treated fairly. However, when they keep on degrading themselves and segregating themselves from the rest of society with the things you mentioned in your OP, it only creates the perspective and adds ammunition to the racial idea that they are different. Is it right, no, but that's the message they're giving to society.

Please bear with me because this IS on topic, it'll just take me a bit to get it across...

I've hoped for two, maybe three, years that a particular TED Talk would turn up here on ATS. Because of something the research uncovered that is Extremely at odds with what is currently considered PC, I have to wonder if the talk is beyond the bounds of the "Banned" TED Talks and has been deemed a "Talk That Never Was".

Since I was only watching out of curiosity and may not have even had the ability to download the vid, when I went back to watch it again I couldn't find it. The lady giving the talk had used a term along the lines of Perceived Personal Space to make her point. I've tried countless permutations in my searches, but have had no success.

I don't recall what particular technology was used to monitor brain function. The slideshow put the subject in question in the center of a pink circle and the perspective was 'From Above Looking Down'.

The research had started with the idea of monitoring the brain activity of an animal and its PPS. When going to an animal like a chimp, they found that learning to have a tool to extend reach also enlarged the pink circle. In this case I think they used a back scratcher so the chimp could reach the food pellet reward.

After seeing the results, the experiment moved to human amputees. The PPS on the same side of the body as the missing limb pulled in toward the body. If the test subject was wearing a prosthesis that they had mastered, their PPS corresponded to a comparable person with all their limbs.

*** Here is where I think they caused waves ***

The next part of the lecture moved on to graphics representing two test subjects...

The distance is purely arbitrary as far as I can remember. Let's make it 30 feet for the sake of the current discussion.

Two total strangers making eye contact for the first time had a PPS that reached about 1/3 of the way to the other subject.

Over time the pink circles elongated until, once a relationship of familiarity was established, they overlapped completely and there was just one large, elongated pink ellipse.

At this point she looked out over the audience and said something along the lines of, "Now, before I say anything else... You are NOT a Racist!! For reasons we don't quite yet understand, unless the two subjects share SOME ethnic characteristics their PPS will never completely merge. It makes no difference if you are talking about a best friend, an adopted sibling or even a spouse. The human brain seems to be hard-wired in this way."

I may, understandably, have my honesty questioned but this particular Ted Talk has rolled around in the back of my mind since I watched it. Since I can't find it, I sure as H*ll can't provide the link. It sure puts a whole different feel on what we've been bombarded with for the last few decades, though.

Don't get me wrong, racism is still racism. Automatically hating someone because they don't look like you will never be right.

My point is that, if it is an inherent part of all human brains, then there are a lot of people that need to be spending some time thinking over their own thoughts and actions. I'm TIRED of hearing, "You don't know what it's like to be ___Fill_In_The_Blank__!"

Having come of age in the '60s, I sure was hoping we'd have more progress by now than we have.

Every time I've ever heard this argument (and there have been many, many times), I couldn't help but note that some people prefer passive aggressive racism. It's a nifty way to have your cake and eat it, too. Silly topic, either way. Just change the title to "Veiled Racism" and you should be good to go.

Fun fact: I have never heard this argument made by someone who DIDN'T end up revealing themselves as a racist son of a gun five minutes later. When you call them on it, they always say "No, bro, I'm in favor of desegregation. I don't think anyone should have their own thing." When really they're saying, "We need to take that sht away from black people. It probably gives them a sense of pride and enjoyment that makes me uncomfortable."

originally posted by: thesmokingman
This has always bothered me and I would like to know what ATS thinks. WHY is it OK for there to be a television network BET(black entertainment television), or say a African American College Fund? And lately I have seen Black People meet .com. and other blacks only things. Why is that acceptable? What if there were a White people meet .com? Or White entertainment network, a White college fund? It would NEVER even be considered because of the backlash that would come from it. The cries of racism, the rioting, the violence, and the cities that would burn! So WHY is it socially acceptable for the blacks to do this? Why is there no outrage from whites, or other races? I remember reading a story a few months back of a white college student posted some kind of ad or flyer about a whites only club or something, and it was on nationwide news and the kid eventually said it was some kind of social experiment I believe? So what are your thoughts on this ATS? Is this acceptable? In my opinion it is racism and is very unacceptable. It is even getting to the point where actresses/actors Hollywood directors claiming that they are not winning awards because they are minorities. Im sorry, but this kind of stuff actually disgusts me. Thoughts?

Aren't people tired of trying to make this same lame argument over and over?

BET? What's FOX news? Mostly white folks.
blackpeoplemeet.com? What's christianmingle.com? Mostly white folks.
African American College Funds? What are the rest of them catering to? Mostly white folks.

The reason they indicate in their titles that they are for black people is because the majority of things are marketed to white people. If you are white and you are looking to date another white person, you don't need to go farther than the first couple of dating sites you come across. When you are looking for news that feeds the fear of the average proudly white person, look no farther than FOX news to cover your interests.

There is good justification for catering to black people and making it known in their marketing and none of it is rooted in racism. Besides, you do understand that white people can make profiles on blackpeoplemeet.com, right? You can also find the occasional white person on BET. There's nothing unfair about it.

The reason a "whitepeoplemeet.com" would be frowned upon is because it's not fooling anybody. You know it would exclude black people because there's already a billion dating sites filled with mostly white people.

originally posted by: opethPA
Their are dating sites that segregate or separate on almost every religion and race.
Their are multiple networks that exclusive to a race, nationality or gender.
I mean I could sit here and say "why is their a christianmingle.com" , that seems unfair to anyone who is not a christian.

There is no website that is explicitly called WhitePeopleMeet.com. There is no television network explicitly called the White Entertainment Network.

If we did anythIng like that, those organizations would be called racist. So, yes, there is a double standard.

a reply to: Cuervo

What's christianmingle.com?

You do understand there are many, many, many black christians dont you?

a reply to: Cuervo

You know it would exclude black people because there's already a billion dating sites filled with mostly white people.

Maybe perhaps that is because there are a lot more whites in the population? There is certainly NOT a dating site exclusively FOR white people.....nor do I want one by the way...just pointing out the error in your thinking.