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Guilt trip propeganda by the US and UK for islamic terrorists?

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posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 10:50 AM
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I wonder that when the west drops a bunch of bombs on places in the middle east and kill civilians or leaves tons toxic materials in the ground causing thousands of birth defects if the government's in those areas come out and say that it is not the fault of regular Americans?




posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Slight modification to that, The war of ideas is ongoing and in that sense, I am, at that level, still at war with Islam.

There is much that I disagree with within their religion. Still, I observe their right to have their religion in their countries.

I reserve the right to contest their religion, their sharia law in ours.....



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Turkey wise up? Turkey was the location of the original Caliphate. Their leader is very anti-U.S. and the connection to Isis is known-Isis stated goal being the re-establishing of a/the Caliphate-, if not broadly published.

Expect no real help from Turkey.....



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: nwtrucker

Hitler would be extremely proud of the current admin.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 11:57 AM
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kayleighkitty:

Also, any time there is a terrorist attack, Cameron and Obama, are always quick to state that "islam is a peaceful religion this does not represent the majority of muslims" - which, is true, i do not disagree with that.


The obvious answer to why they do this is to ensure society does not erupt in hate crime from mob mentality against Muslims. It's the right thing for them to do, but let us not forget that what they say is as 'interpretative' as that which the IS claim for their version of Islam.

Personally, I believe that societies that have evolved away from being overly religious to being more secularised should no longer continue to legitimise religion. A belief or faith in a religion is nothing more than an opinion on a non-evidential and an non-provable concept...that is all that any religion is. Unfortunately, for thousands of years, different races have used their culture and religion as justification to slaughter and to oppress and enslave others who do not agree with their interpretation or accept their belief. The world will never attain global peace while it continues to legitimise religion.

I understand fully that even if we were to globally eradicate the need and presence for religion, other conceptual constructs will take their place, such as political ideologies and racism. Nevertheless, if we could make it the goal to nullify and remove religion as an outmoded concept that is no longer required, it would remove the greatest obstacle that remains impeding man's progress psychologically and sociologically. It is a form of control that has long out-lived its purpose, and remains only as a divider and a destructor.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: kayleighkitty

I think what underscores your concern-and mine- is the fact that no western leader has come out and stated that culture and traditions of their country is not to be trifled with, altered or supplanted.

The only leader to do so has been Putin. He basically stated that if you live in Russia, become a Russian, not the other way around. ( For that, I admire him and wish others had followed his 'lead'.)

Perhaps it's fear of extremist retaliation, perhaps without the U.S. taking the lead, no one else dares risk it. The truth still eludes us....



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

The flaw I see in your logic is then why encourage the entry of yet another and even more violent, restrictive religion enter the society?

If the move is to secular, perhaps allowing that religion's entry becomes the means to further demean/marginalize traditional western religion. The enemy of my enemy is my friend?



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: JHumm

Maybe they think until the peaceful ones stop them they are all to blame.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: nwtrucker

So you're at war with nut cases rather than Islam in general...

That's all you needed to say.


We are in agreement!


I can agree also that we are at war with nut cases. My biggest problem is with moderate Islam. Until they learn to police their own radicals better they are deserving of criticism.

By the way if only 2% of the 1.6 billion Muslims are radicalized. That's 32 million nut jobs!!! I would call that a full-fledged war yes.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 04:35 PM
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nwtrucker:

The flaw I see in your logic is then why encourage the entry of yet another and even more violent, restrictive religion enter the society? If the move is to secular, perhaps allowing that religion's entry becomes the means to further demean/marginalize traditional western religion.


There is no flaw in the logic. Secularism is not a religion, nor does it replace one thing with another. It is about society maintaining separation of state and governance from religion and religious influence. It is the gate through which mankind can pass from adolescence to adulthood and maturity. America, for instance is not a fully secular country, as there are a number of states that allows religion to influence their governance and statutes, and there are very few politicians who do not play the 'I-am-a-Christian-and believe in God' card for their political career.

A secularist state panders to neither any religion nor the irreligious, but is governed neutrally. It allows religious belief to be practised, but does not allow religion to influence governmental issues. This does not mean that religionists do not seek to attain positions of power and influence, because they do, all the time. America is only a few steps away from becoming a Christian-governed country, governed by Christian tenets and dogma...what a hell hole that would be!

I live in the UK, and although some of it's history is that of a Christian country (it was Pagan before that), it is today one of the most secular countries on the planet. There are a number of religions practised in the UK, but none truly influence governmental policy, and long may that continue. I would never vote for a person who declared them self as a participant of a religion...I could never trust them.
edit on 22/2/15 by elysiumfire because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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originally posted by: kamatty
Lets not forget how young these girls are, i think the guilt trip is aimed at them, look what you are doing to your familys, you made your mum cry, look at the teddy bear you gave her on mothers day, come home you are not in any trouble.

I understand what you are saying BUT we don't want them back, good riddance!!

There cannot be anyone in this country, given the amount of News programs, tv stations, radio stations, internet access and newspapers, that don't know what ISIS stands for or what they do... to babies, women, children, or even the horrific way they destroy their 'enemies'.
Age is not an excuse, kids these days are online all the time.
No excuses at all!!
Good riddance!!
How can we let them back knowing that they have betrayed everyone in this country?
If they come back, given a few years they'll have a bomb strapped to their chest as they walk into Mothercare.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 04:43 PM
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Regardless of what the reality of the situation is there is a huge strategic value in not publicly describing this as a conflict with Islam.

As soon as we start describing the conflict in those terms it becomes a huge new source of propaganda for recruitment and radicalization of Muslims.

No one had a problem with George W. when he did the exact same thing,



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

Hmmm. Then, simply put, the secularists, for lack of a better term, is above all that and has no right/interest in what religion becomes dominant in your country?

On a personal note, is there any achievement, any positive contribution secular humanism has given mankind? ( Other than, of course, no religion as it's goal?)

Or does that suffice?

( sorry about the off-topic question, a P.M. is an alternative..
)



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 05:30 PM
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a reply to: elysiumfire

I can't speak to your leader's religious views, but do you really think Obama is a secular humanist and is motivated similarly to you?

I think not.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

To be fair...

If 2% of any ethnicity, religion or gender is a nutcase...

You get where that's going...




How do you propose moderate Muslims police Terrorism?

Isn't that the job of the World's Armies and Counter-Terrorism Units?

Rather than the average law-abiding Joe/Isaac/Muhammad-Public?



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 06:30 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

To be fair...

If 2% of any ethnicity, religion or gender is a nutcase...

You get where that's going...




How do you propose moderate Muslims police Terrorism?

Isn't that the job of the World's Armies and Counter-Terrorism Units?

Rather than the average law-abiding Joe/Isaac/Muhammad-Public?


To be fair 2% is the lowest estimate I could find for jihadist in Islam. I have seen some estimates up to 15% are radicalized. Although 2% is a good average for any nation for Nutjobs. The 2% figure for any nation does not band togther and try and force their insanity on the entire world.



Well maybe they should make them submit? ( Islam)

I mean we've got our right wing nut jobs and neo-Nazis. But we don't let them go blowholes through black neighborhoods in Chicago do we? No we police them we infiltrate them and we try and disrupt them.


I will have no sympathy for their religion until they attempt sincerely to silence these wackos.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 06:34 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

You police, infiltrate and disrupt Neo-Nazis?

That sounds clever.




Play vigilante all you want buddy, us Muslims have no obligation to "infiltrate" anything.

That's the job of Counter-Terrorist Units, Secret Services & Armies.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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nwtrucker:

Then, simply put, the secularists, for lack of a better term, is above all that and has no right/interest in what religion becomes dominant in your country?


In a secularist country or state, whichever religion becomes the dominant in terms of adherents, does not matter, they are not allowed to influence state politics. A country as a whole should be a 'neutral' ground where people live. It can be guided by common sense ethics and concepts, such as equality, liberty, freedom, individuality, but above all, the accepted recognition that each of us are sovereign over our own mind and body, and are thus accountable for the way in which we use them.


I can't speak to your leader's religious views, but do you really think Obama is a secular humanist and is motivated similarly to you? I think not.


Obama's true religious beliefs (if he even holds any?) are irrelevant. What is relevant is the way he 'presides' whilst in office. Does he preside for all Americans or only for certain interest groups, religionists included. I also believe that just as religion should always be separate from state, lobbying should also be prohibited from any influence on it. So it's not just about religion, it's about how society is influenced by self-interest groups, seeking to determine how others should live. Society should be neutral and free of influence from any one particular group. It should cater for all groups whilst at the same time restricting all groups equally, tempering their zeal.

The best form of control is self-responsibility. No society can ever be truly free, because it has to cater to different mindsets, and thus we each have to compromise within our own mindset, and be responsible for it, so that we can actually have a decent society. If you are 'free', so am I. However, if you restrict yourself by holding a narrow vision, such as holding to a religion, or some political thought, I won't join you in that, and I won't criticise you for having it, except when you try to impose it on others against their will. Religionists seek to impose their vision on others, by subtle and by non-too-subtle means. They want their mindset to be the over-riding mindset in society...as far as I'm concerned, that's unacceptable.

Religion is no longer a legitimate idea in any developed society.



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

You police, infiltrate and disrupt Neo-Nazis?

That sounds clever.




Play vigilante all you want buddy, us Muslims have no obligation to "infiltrate" anything.

That's the job of Counter-Terrorist Units, Secret Services & Armies.


And that is exactly what I'm talking about. "You" Muslims need to build more of those organizations on your own.

Failure to do so in my eyes only looks like support for those criminals.
edit on 22-2-2015 by Greathouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2015 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: Greathouse

I don't care what it looks like to you or anyone else.


I don't associate with extremists.

So I'm not gonna go out of my way to do so to alleviate your fears.



See I was born on Earth, with free will...

If I wanted to infiltrate those organisations I'd have become a member of a Counter-Terrorist Unit.


That's not my niche. I'm a lyricist.
Oh well.


Do you expect Italians to infiltrate the Mafia as well?

Or Irish people to infiltrate the Real IRA?

Or Japanese people to Infiltrate the Yakuza?

Or a Black American to infiltrate the Bloods & Crips?


You're living in a dream world where everyone is some sort of vigilante against "their own"...


Have fun with your neo-Nazi buddies...
& good luck explaining your way out when you're put in a position you don't want to be in.

I'm sure they'll understand.



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