It amaze me

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

But the non-believers deserve to keep suffering, right? Because if others don't believe like you then they are less than human and their pain and suffering don't matter.

So sad people have this mindset: "only humans who think like ME deserve not to suffer".

Also, no where in the bible does it say Satan was once called Lucifer in heaven.

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

See I think scriptures from every religions use mostly metaphors or distorted reality.

Do you think metaphors and distorted reality are the same thing?

It was meant to show you how any Church controled the info in the past.

In the year 1500......are you implying something happened at nicea? We have plenty of info on Scripture before Nicea.

Even science had to bent.

Oh boy...go look into the history of Science and see how much the Church had to do with its upbringing.

What makes you think the first guy who write it down had free speach?

They didn't have freedom of speech, and they died for what they were claiming?

For that apple thing when you weren't even present? Please tell me otherwise.

No because I am not good. My conscience knows what right and wrong and I purposely disobey it at times. Heaven is a place in which no one even thinks evil thoughts. If that is so. I do not deserve to be there.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

So we have light here. Light that separates light from darkness. This is what you and other Christians like to counter with. Also here we have Earth existing in some form or another. The problem is light is mentioned again. A separation of light and darkness mentioned again. In the context of Earth specifically it's mentioned again. The light mentioned here is not the light of Stars, and not light reaching Earth. Whatever light this is, is not the light that causes plants to grow or humans to see.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Water before stars is also of interest since new findings show water coming from stars is prolific, and may in fact be the exclusive source for water.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

Obviously this is saying Earth is formed. Not formless and void any longer.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

No Sun yet. No stars yet. Just a different kind of light. Yet fruit trees growing to maturation in order to bear fruit. You can say this metaphysical light is able to cause things to grow but you would not being doing so with a rationale that works alongside science. The light from a star is explicitly said to have occurred on Day 4, not an earlier Day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

Now there is light again. The kind that separates light and day on Earth. The kind that dictates seasons. The kind that reaches the surface of Earth. The kind of light we think about when we usually talk about light. Obviously since it's coming from the Sun which Genesis is clearly saying arose on this Day and not a prior Day.

Genesis is obviously making a distinction between the light mentioned earlier and the light now appearing and reaching Earth. Even if you don't interpret it that way it doesn't negate it's saying all stars were made after Earth is formed.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

Birds. Day 5.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

All land animals made on Day 6.

Genesis is clearly saying birds were flying around prior to Day 6.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Your steam rolling bro. I am trying to have a discussion not an argument. Can we stick with the first two verses and figure out what we think of those, because again you jumped straight to verse three.....

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Sure we can. I hope you didn't gloss over them though. I addressed each day, including the first two you say I am avoiding. My thoughts are included after each verse. We need to address all days...it's crucial to my points.

I didn't jump to verse 3. I don't understand how you got that from my post there.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

If Heaven is a place where no evil thoughts can exist then maybe that's where all evil people should be if God wants ro get rid of evil instead of letting them run free causing pain and suffering.

a reply to: arpgme

If Heaven is a place where no evil thoughts can exist then maybe that's where all evil people should be if God wants ro get rid of evil instead of letting them run free causing pain and suffering.

God is sovereign. He cannot take away their free will because its against his nature.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Exodus 7
2 You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites.

Isn't god hardening the Pharaoh's heart to where he wouldn't release the Israelites him taking the Pharaoh's free-will away? Even if the Pharaoh wanted to free the Israelites, god hardened his heart to where he wouldn't.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

God is sovereign. He cannot take away their free will because its against his nature.

I found this a worthy read on that topic. Food for thought:

Does God Violate Our Free Will?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

[quote ]
God is sovereign. He cannot take away their free will because its against his nature.


So he won't force them to be tormented in hellfire since that is also taking away free-will.

a reply to: arpgme
Free will is given as a test on earth to see what path you take to determine whether you go heaven or hell. If you had freewill in the afterlife heaven would be jam packed

a reply to: rossacus

You're talking about Heaven as if it's physical. No; it wouldn't be "jammed-pack".