Child Victims of Muslim Rape Gangs in the U.K.

a reply to: grainofsand

There is no such study because there is no such correlation of ethnicity = more/less cases...



You keep saying we need to look at ethnicity and ask why it's so high in the community...

Until you convict everyone involved there is no statistic to draw a conclusion from...





What you should do, is read page 9 (Findings) of the report again...
And be sure to look at the small print at the bottom labelled 3&4...


(3 paraphrased) A lot of cases were incomplete in the detail department, based in hear say and third party testimony that "they were told by a child abuse has occured"...

Hardly convincing...

(4 paraphrased) Asian corresponds to the Continent...
It doesn't differentiate between Pakistani, Indian, Middle Eastern, Bangladeshi or otherwise...

Again, hardly convincing of a pandemic among a certain community when it's a Continental broad brush...

So what do you really expect to gain out of scrutinising ethnicity when it isn't even differentiated or grouped properly.

Charlie, for the record, I for one hear what you're saying.

I was arguing for clarity that this issue is not simply one of race or of religion as the OP and others suggested.

Your argument as far as I can see is every fact of every perpetrator should be considered in order to stop the crimes.

You're not making any claims about any group aside and neither was I.

Crystal clear to me.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
I read the report FFS, it was what led me to the CEOP investigation into ethnicity.
It is an important enough issue for the National Crime Agency to be looking into it, and I'm keeping an open mind about it, but if you wish to ignore the first national investigation (however flawed) which published that 26% of offenders they looked into were Asian, then it appears you are the one with a closed mind.
Again, I ask how you are so sure that there is no cultural aspect to it? What sources can you point me to?
While I continue to refrain from saying that there is a cultural aspect to it, perhaps you should refrain from asserting there is not, or link to the studies/research which supports your opinion.
I remain neutral until or unless the National Crime Agency completes it's latest investigations into it.

a reply to: grainofsand

You're asking for something that doesn't exist...

That will clarify a correlation that hasn't been mentioned...




The only indicative factor correlated in the report towards offenders is the age range...

No ethnic correlation to sexual abuse is mentioned...




Why are you asking for something that is not being investigated?

What is your reasoning for wanting such an investigation when nothing points towards that correlation?




Here is an example of why this is futile...

Asians have been lumped together...
It gives no indication of their nationality...

Whites have been lumped together...
It gives no indication of their nationality...



If you are advocating for the majority of both groups...
Examples;
Predominant Pakistani Asians...
Predominant Russian Whites...


Then you're playing fair...
If you keep focusing on just the Asians, you cannot claim others have an agenda...


If the report itself is not looking into it...
But you're advocating they should, that's an agenda...



We are going in circles.


Let's agree to disagree and hope for the best for all victims involved.

The statistics brought into the discussion prove that a given "race" (ethnicity, national origin, geographic background, etc.) is NOT responsible for all sex crimes against children.

All sex crimes against children should be investigated and the perpetrators punished to the fullest extent of the law.

I don't see the disconnect.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
You admitted yourself that FGM is a cultural crime.
We therefore understand that crimes can be related to some cultures/ethinicity's.
The National Crime Agency is looking into it and records of ethnicity by offence will be more closely recorded as a result of recent claims.
The initial investigation into it is not too pretty with the 26% figure as quoted, so it is important for this to be considered in future to confirm if it is just poor record keeping, or there is a disproportionate amount of offenders from the Asian community.
You do not know either way, neither do I, I'm just sharing published information from the NCA to allow a complete picture of current official investigations into it.
I suspect you would hide anything that did not conform to your preconceived (and almost seemingly biased) viewpoint.

*Edit*
For anyone who missed it as this discussion has developed, here is the Executive Summary from CEOP:
Out of Mind, Out of Sight - Breaking down the barriers to understanding child sexual exploitation

a reply to: grainofsand

Now you're being silly.


How could I possibly hide anything?
& what exactly could I hide?
& why would I hide it?


If we want to consider FGM a subtopic of sexual abuse...
We can say for certain that is a cultural thing...


If we are talking about grooming and rape there is no cultural thing...




What culture is Asian exactly?

Muslim culture?
Hindu culture?
Buddhist culture?

Pakistani culture?
Bangladeshi culture?
Indian culture?
Afghani culture?
Iraqi culture?
Iranian culture?

Let's go one further...

Karachi culture?
Bagdhad culture?
Delhi culture?
Kabul culture?



Moreover...

Why do you consider it is possibly a cultural thing when it's Asians?

Do you feel the same about the sexual abuse by white people?
That it is cultural?



When does it cease to be a cultural thing, and become just a disgusting mindset thing!?!?!

This whole idea is nonsense when broken down correctly.

originally posted by: grainofsand
You do not know either way, neither do I

Well I do. May God help England when the truth comes out.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: grainofsand
If we are talking about grooming and rape there is no cultural thing...

How do you know that?
There were enough white victims claiming they were groomed and trafficked specifically by Asian men for The National Crime Agency to look into it. They still are.
The initial national investigation (however flawed) reported 26% of offenders as Asian. More investigation will follow to establish if this is inaccurate, with more precise recording of offender ethnicity.
I'm not saying that there are in fact certain males in cultural groups who may consider white non-muslim females in Britain as meat, it is just the claims of the victims, but you cannot be sure there are not.
I make no unsubstantiated assertions, but you appear to do so.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Slight difference.


Jewish culture and male circumcision is mainly for health/cleanliness related reasons...
Whether that's true or not I don't know I haven't looked into it...


FGM which is a very African (not all of Africa of course, & not exclusive to any single religious belief) thing to do, has no stated benefits such as the above...
All it does is scar the female for life and remove all sensory pleasure from the clitorus...



One was invented for males, by males, with beneficiary claims...

One was invented by males, for females, as an oppressive implementation...



So while there is a definite argument that male circumcision should be a male choice at an understanding age...

FGM is basically just a barbaric practice to oppress women... Which no woman would choose at any age...



But I do understand why you said the above, just wanted to highlight the overall for other readers.

originally posted by: grainofsand

There were enough white victims claiming they were groomed and trafficked specifically by Asian men for The National Crime Agency to look into it. They still are.

The initial national investigation (however flawed) reported 26% of offenders as Asian. More investigation will follow to establish if this is inaccurate, with more precise recording of offender ethnicity.
 

I make no unsubstantiated assertions

You just did. Either you're completely unaware of what's going on or you're lying.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

So while there is a definite argument that male circumcision should be a male choice at an understanding age...

FGM is basically just a barbaric practice to oppress women... Which no woman would choose at any age...
 

Well put. I have a very strong argument against circumcision but it's way beyond the scope of this topic by the looks of things.

a reply to: grainofsand

"How do you know that?"


Because grooming and rape is inflicted by people of all races, religions, cultures and genders...

That's how I know it's not a specific cultural thing to any one group.

It is rape culture.
It derives from a human mindset.

It is not an ethnic culture.
It does not derive from an ethnic mindset.



Yes I make this assertion...
No, it is not unsubstantiated, it is well know there are rapists and groomers of all backgrounds the world over.
& IJ none of those backgrounds do they represent the majority of a group...

Unless that group is rapists... Then they are the majority, the whole rather...
Because rape culture is based on the mindset of humans, for power.




Why are they mainly White victims?

Well that is not easy to figure out...

Is it a racial thing?
Probably not, seeing as white victims have many attackers...

Is it because they are in the majority population percentage...
Maybe, but still not a complete picture...

Is it because during the majority of these attacks, they happened at night in areas where white victims were more common to find in whatever area...
Closer to the truth imo, but still not really provable...



Is there other factors?

Most likely...But this is all being pinned on the hopes that reasons for attacks will be given by the attackers...


If it was racial, I don't expect the attackers to admit it...

If it was because white victims are part of the dominant population and therefore more likely to make up the bulk of the victims, I don't expect this will ever be provable...

If it was because the night time is more dangerous due to who is hanging about in whatever state of mind...
Again, I don't expect the attackers to allude to their modus operandi...




These things will always be speculated...

& will go no way finding justice...




It will only alienate a specific group who are being tied together with people who are the same colour as them...

That's wrong in 2015, and deep down you know it.



I listed many of the Asian cultures...


You didn't answer my question...

When does it cease to be about culture, and become about a disgusting mindset of certain humans?

We will continue to differ, so there is no need to respond...
But if you do, just answer that question above...

I've said my piece... & Ive seen everyone else's!

That culture vs mindset question is all I'm interested in hearing from people now!

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio
No I didn't, why the hell else do you think The National Crime Agency conducted a preliminary investigation?
The claims of the victims and support charities, plus anecdotal evidence of individual police officers inspired the investigation.
Try again.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
You do not know that any particular ethnic/cultural/religious groups have a higher or lower percentage of folk who sexually abuse white girls or not. Everything you state is opinion based.
I stick to sharing official published information and keep an open mind.
CEOP were concerned enough to investigate almost 1000 recorded offenders and the stat's came out as 26% Asian.
You cry about "which Asian group, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Indian, whatever, but the point remains that only 4.11% of the UK populace is Asian on the 2011 Census and 26% of offenders in the study were recorded as 'Asian'.
Ignore that and spin it as much as you like but I am glad CEOP is continuing to investigate with higher standards of reporting offender ethnicity.
Are you not?

*Edit*
And as an off-topic aside, why do you double/triple/quadruple space your paragraphs? You wanna be noticed or special or something?
It makes your posts an annoying scrolldown as far as I'm concerned.

originally posted by: grainofsand
No I didn't, why the hell else do you think The National Crime Agency conducted a preliminary investigation?
The claims of the victims and support charities, plus anecdotal evidence of individual police officers inspired the investigation.
Try again.

Please show me official documents, else it's speculation. Who knows if these children were forced to make false statements? For what it's worth, I'm not just saying that. Children are going missing all over the country every day so the last thing we need is a huge racial problem.

And as an off-topic aside, why do you double/triple/quadruple space your paragraphs? You wanna be noticed or special or something? It makes your posts an annoying scrolldown as far as I'm concerned.

I format my posts as best I can for reading, not scrolling.
 

a reply to: grainofsand

You ignored the question again...
Clearly you're not biased.



Who cares how I format my responses!!!

What does it matter to you in the slightest?




On topic: Spinning what exactly???


That's an ultimate troll response if ever I saw one....


I told you to go to the report you keep promoting and read page 9 (findings) at the bottom is the fine print labelled 3&4 that state exactly what you're claiming I'm spinning this as...


So if I'm using spin, so is your report!!!

Because they said the exact same thing.



Did I mention that you ignored the question for a second time?

You lack of a response alludes to a bias answer that you do not want to share...

Shame really...


I'd rather know if you think it's a cultural norm when it's Asian but just an rare rapist mindset when they're White!!!
Because then I'll know if I ever want to waste my time in a back and forth with a Xenophobe in future!!!

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio
Report of Inspection of Rotherham Metropolitan Borough Council February 2015

The report found evidence of sexual exploitation of at least 1400 children in Rotherham over this period. The majority of the perpetrators were described as ‘Asian’ by victims.

On 26th August 2014 Professor Alexis Jay published an Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham. The report, commissioned by RMBC as a review of its own practices, concluded that over 1400 children had been sexually exploited in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013. The vast majority of the perpetrators were said to be ‘Asian’ men.

THE ‘RACE ISSUE’
“The issue [of CSE perpetrators] was predominately Asian men and they were scared that would cause a problem. We would tell them that in the forums and they were uncomfortable. Stats on ethnicity were taken out of presentations. There was resistance to focusing on who the perpetrators were.” A voluntary sector worker

...speculation that CEOP are continuing to look into this further after publishing their initial findings? Perhaps, but only a grossly negligent public servant would not in my opinion.

So how can anyone be sure enough to say that it was Muslims to blame for all of these atrocities? Or that being Muslim had anything to do with them being rapists? Or is it just because of the colour of their skin or their origin of birth? You know Christians Hindus atheists etc can be rapists too. I'm not arguing that it did not happen but I'm sure the victims didn't take the time to ask which faith their assailants were loyal to and chances are the assailants weren't shouting out their religious beliefs during in the act. Seems to me to be just another Muslim bashing bandwagon scapegoat. Seems to be the going trend these days...