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Quantum mechanics...

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posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 02:05 AM
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quantum mechanics...the theory of time disapears?

post it. if you know you know, if you don't, discover.




posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 06:23 AM
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check out the movie "what the bleep do we know?".

www.whatthebleep.com

whether you're amateur or pure genius, this is an excellent film which describes quantum physics and related topics in a very curious but satisfying manner.



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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quantum mechanics...the theory of time disapears?


einsteins concepts were almost right, but he was wrong dening the quantum nature (at least in the first stage of investigations), the relativity theory is descriptive, but not explicative, there speculations that the einstein general theory is relative if the universe is an open or close thermodynamic sistem, or if the universe is formed of multiple universes separated or linked by cold stars, in that way the light speed could be 300000 km/s in our universe, but 2000 km/s in other, those are cosmology questions.

i dont know whats the stage of super-string theory right now

[edit on 22-12-2004 by grunt2]



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 01:22 AM
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.. It would appear we don't 'know' - could you enlighten us as to what 'The Theory Of Time' is?



posted on Dec, 24 2004 @ 04:09 PM
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Time appears to be just another environmental condition that changes substantially when you change the location of whatever experiment it is that you're doing. If we think of time as similar to aptmospheric pressure, or oxygen concentration, or temperature, in that it has relevance to varying degrees in various places, we can conduct experiments properly.

We should be able to take experiments to other dimensions soon, and the possibilities are staggering when you consider that one of the greatest limiters of human invention is time. What more could Ben Franklin, or A.E. have given us if not subject to the rigours of time? I think it's also interesting that quantum mechanics aren't the only way to mess with time.

What about cellular telemorase reduction in combination with quantum resonance 'tuning' for the ol' DNA strands, resulting in a longer lifespan which makes the issue of time redundant to a degree. Of course, the quantum area is fascinating for dozens of other reasons, most so IMO because of it's ability to mimic our reality, even when crossed over great 'distances' away. Ways to measure thought, to quantify, or even qualify human thoughts and souls might be just around the corner depending on what quantum research delivers in the way of observational tools.

Another great change will be in communication. The probability that quantum communications are in use right now is high. Chances are, given the number of experiments taking place this year in that field, a quantum particle is flying through the air on its way to being received and unlocked, right this minute.

Travel is one area of great excitement. Imagine being able to be in two or more places at once..

The list, thanks to diligent theorists, gets longer and longer every day. Once the measurement devices and standards are in place to guarantee scientific rigour, the sky's no longer the limit.



posted on Dec, 25 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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I'd like to point out that I'm well versed in Quantum Mechanics - I have yet to properly learn the math, but the concepts are all well grasped.

I simply want to know what the hell Aether was talking about.

Did he think "This sounds deep, but I don't know what it means.. I'll post it anyway" or did he really just learn about Quantum Mechanics, and thought about our general concept of time, and realised it doesn't work the same way it used to, or did he read an article about something known specifically as "The Theory Of Time", and come to tell us about it?

I honestly want to know, what was he talking about?

It's like this one time, someone came onto a message board I moderate and made a topic "Room 4312" or something, then said "Hey let's talk about the Room 4312 incident, if you don't know you don't know - if you do then post. What can you tell me?" - 8 people asked what the hell Room 4312 was, and he just answered back "If you don't know don't post, let those of us 'in the know' talk about it!!!", and then, about 3 weeks later, after the topic was looong dead, he posted in it again and said "Geez I guess no one here knows what it is. Sad." and he never posted again.

It's a matter of simple annoyance at rudeness. This isn't nearly as bad - but I'm still unaware what the topic is actually about aside from the very broad subject material: Time and QM.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 01:59 AM
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i see how the words could be interpreted that way.

I finished my second year of college physics at Iowa State University this last semester and we just barely touched the surface of quantum mechanics. Never-the-less we were producing equations with and without time as a dependent variable. So, i started doing a little outside research - where else to do it than here, eh?

Trying to gather as much information about it as possible.

The 'if you don't know, discover' is basically an...advertisement : P

It's scary to seek the knowledge of such things, but yet at the same time it's inevitable.

Right now it's very late, but I do want to ask one question to you guys.

What are the situations under which a wavefunction will collapse when talking about eigenvalues and superposition?



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 02:06 AM
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I think that full movie is on wgun or what ever that chanel big bird is on.find the site I know thay at leat have alot of it.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 06:06 AM
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Originally posted by Aether
Right now it's very late, but I do want to ask one question to you guys.

What are the situations under which a wavefunction will collapse when talking about eigenvalues and superposition?


"The eigenvalues determine the probability matrix from which an observation or measurement is made which collapses the wave function."

Is that pretty close to what you're getting at??? BTW, I don't have any formal training in physics or quantum mechanics. Just what I've come to learn on my own. So keep that in mind as this thread continues and in evaluating my answer above.

[edit on 26-12-2004 by mOjOm]



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 01:20 PM
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Right, but what are those conditions from which the eigenvalues/functions are first depicted - what is the very essence of those values that make the function collapse? I don't understand it.

It also doesn't make sense that you can have a time independent Heisenberg equation if the frequency from E = h*f suddenly has time as an independent variable, but at the same frequency has standard units of seconds^(-1)



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Aether
Right, but what are those conditions from which the eigenvalues/functions are first depicted - what is the very essence of those values that make the function collapse? I don't understand it.

It also doesn't make sense that you can have a time independent Heisenberg equation if the frequency from E = h*f suddenly has time as an independent variable, but at the same frequency has standard units of seconds^(-1)


Ask your profs.

No, seriously. The topic is quite complex and it's not something that can be adequately answered in message board postings.

There's any number of articles on it in professional journals (like this article): www.kluweronline.com...

Hie thyself to thy university's online catalog and access the articles from there. I see both books and articles available, and a search of the journals database shows quite a few articles. You can get detailed answers there.



posted on Dec, 26 2004 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Aether
Right, but what are those conditions from which the eigenvalues/functions are first depicted - what is the very essence of those values that make the function collapse? I don't understand it.

It also doesn't make sense that you can have a time independent Heisenberg equation if the frequency from E = h*f suddenly has time as an independent variable, but at the same frequency has standard units of seconds^(-1)


If I am understanding you correctly, you're looking for some very profound answers that I don't think anyone has the answers to as of yet. In a matter of speaking you seem to be asking the 'Why' behind the 'What and How'. Science doesn't usually concern itself too much with the 'Why' behind things. In other words, it concentrates mainly on the mechanics behind an event rather than the meaning of that event.

If, however, you are speaking strictly about the conditional eigenvalues themselves and how to use them correctly in an equation, then I suggest you ask your teachers as Byrd suggested.

As for the 'Essence of those values' that cause the collapse. Again this seems more like philosophy than science IMO. The 'values' are really nothing more than mathimatical & symbolic representations which are used to represent the parameters of the 'System' or 'Quantum State'. An example using metaphor that I think I could use to clearify that is comparing it to a painting.

On the wall in front of you is some sort of abstract painting. It doesn't have to be of a specific thing, but at the same time does in fact 'mean' something, which could be conceptual and/or actual. So the question is, 'What is it?' How this is an example using metaphor breaks down like this.

essence behind the values that collapse the wave = meaning of the painting
eigenvalues of the matrix = the paints, colors, brush strokes, canvas, etc.

The parameters of the eigenvalues that cause the collapse of probability into reality are like the components that the picture is painted on & with. Both are the properties of some 'whole function' while at the same time that 'whole fuction' can seem beyond what those parameters will allow. So you could say that 'The Artists Materials' are to 'The Art', as 'The eigenvalues' are to 'The Probability Matix'. The materials and values are static but their 'Potential' is dynamic. I don't know if that helps or not, or even if it is in line with what you're asking. I do atleast hope that it was understood in how it was meant.

One last thing to remember though is that not all the different theories in quantum mechanics deal with 'Collapse of wave function'. Heinsenberg also is about 'Matrix Mechanics' while Schrdinger was about "Wave mechanics." One is Time-Dependant and the other is Time-Independent yet they are said to be equal in their intended functions. How that can be so, or how it is possible that one uses "frequency" without using "time" or whatever else may seem illogical. Well, that is something you'll have to take up with them and/or the whole of the scientific community. They set the rules up that way and whether or not they are complete or correct is something for them, (and maybe you in the future), to decide.



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