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Ukraine............Preparing for full scale war..............

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posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Um, as you know, the referendum in Crimea was poorly instigated and not run to international standards. In addition, the area was occupied by un-marked Russian troops which was a de facto invasion. This latter point was admitted to by Putin.

As an “autonomous republic”, Crimea was still governed by the laws of Ukraine and any referendum to accede from Ukraine should have been run within Ukrainian law.

Apart from Russia, only six states recognise Russia’s acquisition of Crimea from Ukraine as legitimate. North Korea think it’s OK, so it’s OK! Russia’s got few supporters in this matter. Even Belarus are distinctly cold on Putin’s expansionism.

Regards

PS Try to be civil




posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:34 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder

Crimea being autonomous wasn`t recognizing the new Ukrainian government as being legit, because it came about with a coup, so they decided to declare themselves independent from it.

And the Eastern Ukrainians are also in their right not to recognize the coup installed regime in Kiev.

Actually, the referendum in 1994 separated Donbass from Ukraine 20 years ago



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder

I don't want a long back and forth about this but you're wrong.

I'll only say this once, if you don't take it on board...


We'll agree to disagree from here...



Crimea was an Autonomous Republic as part of Ukraine...
Ukraine gave the orders and had control of the area...

But the Autonomous Republic of Crimea has a Constitution...
That Constitution tells them that Ukraine is in charge...

So long as Crimea's Parliament recognises the Ukrainian Government...

When the coup took place...

A Constitutionally justified Referendum is legal to decide how Crimea wishes to go forward...

They had a Referendum with Two choices...

Yes to join Russia...
No to not join Russia...



People cry about a hypothetical 3rd choice that was "missing"...
To stay part of the Ukraine...

They conveniently ignore if they wanted to do that they wouldn't need a Referendum in the first place...

They didn't want to be part of the Ukraine because they didn't recognise the new Government that came in unelected...

They decided to join Russia.


As I said...
You can take it on board...
Or say it was "illegal" or "rigged" or "unrecognised internationally"...

All that's really matters is what the people of Crimea wanted...

Not what the outside World wanted to happen, or think should happen now.


Ciao.
edit on 21-2-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-2-2015 by CharlieSpeirs because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

You'd realise if you paid attention that when someone in debt fails to pay the debt collectors come to retrieve what's owed...


And the amount that Ukraine owes to Gazprom alone...
LoL...

That amount would put people high up on the Forbes List!


You do not repay those who attack you. Its nullified.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:42 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
A Constitutionally justified Referendum is legal to decide how Crimea wishes to go forward...

They had a Referendum with Two choices...

Yes to join Russia...
No to not join Russia...


So the US moves thousands of troops all over Britain. The UK's forces are locked in their bases and will be killed if they come out. UK forces are disarmed and shipped off to Gibralter and the Falklands. A vote is held with US armed forces standing all around every voting station. There are no international monitors. You go in and vote for ???

That sounds constitutionally free and fair to me! Britain is now American and you get to kneel before Obama. Sorry dude, UK citizens voted.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The two choices were written in a way to fool th evoters,and the turn out was unbelievable as in not possible. In other wors rigged.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:46 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

As a human I'll always be on your side Greathouse...


However, on here, I am probably considered part of the Putin Defence League!

Siezing?




Some say taking back what's rightfully Russia's.


Charlie...let's not do it again OK....?

Is crimea recognised by the UN as part of russia??

No?....well then the Russians need to gtfo!!!

How about eastern Ukraine, is that recognized Russian soil?

OK then, once again they need to gtfo!!!

Seems easy enough.

Was Russia itself attacked from Ukraine?

Then wtf business do they have there?



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: infinityorder

Crimea being autonomous wasn`t recognizing the new Ukrainian government as being legit, because it came about with a coup, so they decided to declare themselves independent from it.

And the Eastern Ukrainians are also in their right not to recognize the coup installed regime in Kiev.

Actually, the referendum in 1994 separated Donbass from Ukraine 20 years ago


So...Texas doesn't like obacare, so we just decided we left america.....this is not how it works duh!!!!!!!!!

You know this.

Either come prepared or be prepared to get owned, I do know how this all works.

You are full of bs, and you know it.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
A Constitutionally justified Referendum is legal to decide how Crimea wishes to go forward...

They had a Referendum with Two choices...

Yes to join Russia...
No to not join Russia...


So the US moves thousands of troops all over Britain. The UK's forces are locked in their bases and will be killed if they come out. UK forces are disarmed and shipped off to Gibralter and the Falklands. A vote is held with US armed forces standing all around every voting station. There are no international monitors. You go in and vote for ???

That sounds constitutionally free and fair to me! Britain is now American and you get to kneel before Obama. Sorry dude, UK citizens voted.


Exactly...these guys are full of it!!



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder



So...Texas doesn't like obacare, so we just decided we left america.....this is not how it works duh!!!!!!!!!


Russia makes a coup in the US and Texas just has to accept that and do nothing according to you...Yeah Right !!!!

I would not say that to other Americans if I was you.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: infinityorder



So...Texas doesn't like obacare, so we just decided we left america.....this is not how it works duh!!!!!!!!!


Russia makes a coup in the US and Texas just has to accept that and do nothing according to you...Yeah Right !!!!

I would not say that to other Americans if I was you.


Just stop you are pathetic, Russia invaded and by force stole another states land, they are obviously the aggressors here, and the bad guys.

Go back to Putin, he will obviously forgive your failures.

It isn't like he is a tyrant like stalin....oh wait... He is just as bad.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder



Go back to Putin,


Going back would mean I would have been somewhere, so you can only accuse me of going back to my own government, but as long they keep acting like America`s lapdog that won`t happen.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Greathouse

As a human I'll always be on your side Greathouse...


However, on here, I am probably considered part of the Putin Defence League!

Siezing?




Some say taking back what's rightfully Russia's.


My apologies I did not realize you were from the Nashi Army.

But since you are man enough to amid that Putin is seizing resources. Apparently you're one of the few actually worth talking to.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:36 PM
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Ukraine............Preparing for full scale war..............


If Ukraine is just now preparing for war they're a year or so too late. Besides its pretty clear by now Ukraine and Ukrainians are of no consequence to what happens with Ukraine. They might as well just sit on their ass and wait to see which nation makes them their bitch.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: infinityorder



Go back to Putin,


Going back would mean I would have been somewhere, so you can only accuse me of going back to my own government, but as long they keep acting like America`s lapdog that won`t happen.



Name one time america took over another's land for the sake of empire....

America has taken land many times, they never once kept it for the sake of empire.

If we had, we would own half the world.

There is a difference.

When Russia takes land it is for empire, when america does it is only for a strategic objective, where they once again fall back to american shores.

When russia does it, it is for empire, and they subjugate the popous to force them under Russian rule.

Big difference.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder



When Russia takes land it is for empire, when america does it is only for a strategic objective, where they once again fall back to american shores.


And what might that strategic objective be ?

To stay World hegemon ?...uhm, and that`s not for the Empire...?

No shortages of hypocrisy on your side being detected.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 07:01 PM
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edit on 21-2-2015 by Tucket because: malfunction



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 07:07 PM
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From my point of view:

I cannot understand how people are still arguing over Crimea. People have a right to self determination even when they choose differently than your team/side wants.

77% inhabitants in 2001 census named Russian as their native language. 60.4% where native Russians. Face it Crimea is inhabited by Russians and have a right to leave Ukraine for Russia.

The Western part have a right to grow closer to EU. But as an EU citizen, I do not think we have a real need for them in EU since they have nothing real to offer that is beneficial. They are like Turkey. A border province that we add Nato for and use IMF banking schemes in, but have no real interest for them to open our borders for. EU already have enough unemployment and opening the border for Ukraine and Turkey is like USA making Mexico part of USA. Turkey and Ukraine will for a long while have EU membership dangling in front of them, but I do not think they will be added, if it is not used as an attack on the middle class in Europe.

About Donetsk People's Republic.
Even if 87.8% have Russian as speaking language in 2001 Census. It is not more Russians than Ukraine so where they belong is not that black and white. It is true that the coup was western influenced. But if there is a majority for Russia or Kiev I cannot be sure of.

en.wikipedia.org...


The Ukrainian ethnicity is 56.9% of the population (2,744,100 people); the Russian ethnicity is 38.2% of the population (1,844,400 people).[37]


Both sides suck in this conflict.

One the western side:
You have IMF/FED flying out Ukraine gold without informing the world.
Probably right wing fascist creating the coup in the first place as false flag.
Lots of propaganda lies.
US sending weapons and creating another puppet.

One the Russian side:
Was not letting democratic change happen to remove corruption so the mess could have been avoided before it started.
Stealing part of the production capability of eastern Ukraine when they rolled back the "help convoys" to Russia.
Lots of propaganda lies.

What I would like is an election in Donetsk People's Republic on a local level where all parts of Donetsk can choose independent/Part of Ukraine/Part of Russia, uninfluenced by both Ukraine and Russia, where the people can choose what they want and not what Western or Russian interest wants for them. It is called Democracy.
edit on 21-2-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 07:13 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder

Installing a puppet that can be controlled is the US way instead, with the manipulation of CIA. Why take over the land when you can get all the pros and none of the negatives of ownership thru puppets?

Then you can even claim you are not the aggressor, even when you steal all the resource thru corporations to your Empire. Both good economics and propaganda merits.
edit on 21-2-2015 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: infinityorder

WoW, you just do not realize that you are NOT the good guys, THEIR ARE NO GOOD GUYS.

And that just escapes you completely, the fact that your Nations Interests are not the PEOPLES INTERESTS.

You think that somehow Russia is coming to get you, and you gotta stop them unjust bastards.

It is so laughable it cannot be believed.



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