Phantom Bible Passages and Christians

This is from a couple of days ago, but I don't see it in 'search' since 2011 brought it up:

Actually, that's not in the Bible

biblical blunder is as common as preachers delivering long-winded public prayers. The Bible may be the most revered book in America, but it's also one of the most misquoted. Politicians, motivational speakers, coaches - all types of people - quote passages that actually have no place in the Bible, religious scholars say.

These phantom passages include:

"God helps those who help themselves."

"Spare the rod, spoil the child."

And there is this often-cited paraphrase: Satan tempted Eve to eat the forbidden apple in the Garden of Eden.

None of those passages appear in the Bible, and one is actually anti-biblical, scholars say.

This article made me laugh out loud. Now, I've never "read" The Bible - but having grown up in the Bible Belt, I hear many passages, and I did (lest my fans forget) grow up in a Protestant church (Catholic-lite, AKA Episcopalian).

More examples of how many church-goers simply accept what they are told are provided in the article. But it goes even deeper than just those who are seated in pews (or kneeling on the benches)....

One

Steve Bouma-Prediger, a religion professor at Hope College in Holland, Michigan.

"In my college religion classes, I sometimes quote 2 Hesitations 4:3 ('There are no internal combustion engines in heaven')," Bouma-Prediger says. "I wait to see if anyone realizes that there is no such book in the Bible and therefore no such verse.

"Only a few catch on."

Few catch on because they don't want to - people prefer knowing biblical passages that reinforce their pre-existing beliefs, a Bible professor says.

"Most people who profess a deep love of the Bible have never actually read the book," says Rabbi Rami Shapiro, who once had to persuade a student in his Bible class at Middle Tennessee State University that the saying "this dog won't hunt" doesn't appear in the Book of Proverbs.

sigh.
So - if even seminary students and preachers and Rabbis do this - how can believers trust ANYTHING they say? Sure, one can read any of numerous translations of 'the book' (and here I include the Torah and Koran as well as the OT/NT Bible) - if they are literate, but does that mean they will understand it, let alone properly quote and/or cite it?

What does this say about 'believers' who put their 'faith' in the words of their favorite 'spiritual leader' - for example, ISIS has at least one "Imam" who is telling them to "keep it up." But we don't have to go even nearly that far or that extreme...although the fact that Muslim "imams" are under no supervisor or standard leadership guide is worrisome enough...

what about those who are 'officially ordained'? Where did they go to school? How qualified were they to be accepted to those programs, and how well-researched are the syllabus and curriculum they are given? So, we can't trust that ANYONE really knows, can we?

Do you, ATS, ever wonder if you're being told things that aren't in fact in the Bible? What would you do, or how would you feel if you found out that something you'd thought was in there was NOT in there after all? This doesn't even TOUCH the subject of finding out your leader has been engaging in forbidden activities, even CRIMINAL activities - such as pedophilia, or fraud, or adultery, or child abuse, or seduction of congregation members. Should they 'lose their church'? Should they be 'forgiven'? Corrected? Expected to publicly explain themselves but still keep their jobs?


Just curious. It's no secret that I don't take any 'holy text' as anything but human speculation, and that I put no stock in them - and although this might seem like 'just another Christian bashing thread', it also applies to people of ANY faith who do not investigate the sources pf their learning for accuracy. Then again, I was always the youth in the front row with my hand in the air and often had to sit on my hands and keep my lips physically clamped shut with my teeth to allow others to 'contribute' to class.

What sort of worshiper are you? How did you 'choose' your pastor or priest or imam or rabbi? What made you warm up to their teaching - and how many 'auditions' did you do with the choices of leader on offer?

"Those Eagle eggs were a Lie, Stephen! " just popped into my head.



"Sorry"

Anyway - serious subject, but let's try to look at it from an investigative point of view, and not get all hurt. Anyone interested in discussing it?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You hit the nail on the head BuzzyWigs.

We are all accountable for our learning. It wasn't until I started shopping for the "right" church to belong to that I realized I didn't agree with their mission statements. If I couldn't agree 100% with their belief value then I couldn't be part of that church. Just my own feelings on it.

I have come to the conclusion that we have to read the Bible, try to interpret it and when we don't understand, aside from praying for understanding, research other people's viewpoints. None of us are ever going to understand it perfectly, and God is still revealing passages as time marches on. And so I don't put my belief in any man, or man made interpretations. If I don't understand something I know eventually I'll get it and if I don't then it's not the end of the world. To put my belief into any man is giving them power.

I follow a few Christians but have noticed that even those I respect the most don't always agree. And I think that's okay. We're all on a different level.

Yes, we should forgive and pray that those leaders repent. However those stealing money and doing wrong things should be held accountable as they aren't preaching Jesus' love, they are using it for their own gain. Meaning many aren't acting on behalf of Jesus, they are pretending. And I think it's the worst thing one can do because a person's salvation may depend on it. God doesn't take that lightly at all.

For those passages that I have realized were never in the Bible, I have to say the "aha" moment in my brain is astounding. And when I have those moments I realize even more how important it is for me to read the Bible and not be lazy and expect someone else to give me answers because they can be wrong or trying to deceive.

Proverbs 13:24 is part of the bible.

a reply to: rickymouse

Proverbs 13:24 is part of the bible.

Care to quote it? I don't have the proverbs memorized.

a reply to: ccseagull

Thank you ccseagull! Your approach seems to be the most rational way to go about it -
I admit not having read The Bible - but I've read countless books ABOUT the Bible, and many, many of the passages I know by heart myself - though I can't give Book/Chapter/Verse - when I'm engaging in these conversations, I simply type the quote into the search engine, and Google TELLS me which Book/Ch/Verse it's from.

OR, Google tells me that it was some other source or quote - NOT a Bible passage.

I admire your willingness to continue learning...as far as I'm concerned, we should continue learning until we draw our last breath - else, what really is the point?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: rickymouse

Proverbs 13:24 is part of the bible.

Care to quote it? I don't have the proverbs memorized.

Whoever spares the rod hates their children,
but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

That would be where spare the rod spoil the child comes from. It simply means if you love your child, you will discipline them. It does not necessarily mean you will beat them to do it.

It says during the Millennial Kingdom that Jesus will rule with an iron rod, but that doesn't mean He will rule by beating us. It simply means He will rule strictly according to God's will.

a reply to: rickymouse

Ah. Bummer.
I don't believe in corporal punishment, so - I guess that means I 'hate' my children? I think they'd beg to differ. I love them unconditionally - and did 'discipline' them: they are wonderful adults now.

Just another reason for me to ignore the Bible. God certainly didn't 'spare the rod' - did he?

a reply to: ketsuko

Okay, thanks. What's the name of that guy whose 'teachings' resulted in the DEATHS of several kids?
He and his wife got rich writing a 'book' (or books) about it....

a reply to: rickymouse

Actually, the article even addresses that one further:

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" falls into that category. It's a popular verse - and painful for many kids. Could some enterprising kid avoid the rod by pointing out to his mother that it's not in the Bible?

It's doubtful. Her possible retort: The popular saying is a distillation of Proverbs 13:24: "The one who withholds [or spares] the rod is one who hates his son."

Like I said above, there's some maniac who took that seriously and wrote about it - and kids have DIED as a result. *processing*
Okay - here he is:
Michael Pearl

The book advises parents to use objects like a quarter-inch plumbing tube to spank children and "break their will". It also mentions withholding food and putting children under a cold garden hose.[1][9]

To Train Up a Child
Book cover of To Train Up a Child
The content of Pearl's book has been cited as advocating child abuse and its teachings were linked to the deaths of Sean Paddock,[10] Lydia Schatz,[11] and Hana Grace-Rose Williams.[12] In all three cases the parents were homeschooling their children and are believed to have read Pearl's book.[13] Michael Ramsey, a Butte County, California District Attorney who prosecuted the Schatz case, investigated the Pearls' teachings and called To Train Up A Child, "an extraordinarily dangerous book for those who take it literally." "It's truly an evil book," he said.[14] Dr. Frances Chalmers, the pediatrician who examined Hana's death, said “My fear is that this book, while perhaps well intended, could easily be misinterpreted and could lead to what I consider significant abuse.” [5]

The parents of Hana Grace-Rose Williams, Larry and Carri Williams, were found guilty of first degree murder and sentenced to 28 and 37 years in jail, respectively. [15]

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: rickymouse

Ah. Bummer.
I don't believe in corporal punishment, so - I guess that means I 'hate' my children? I think they'd beg to differ. I love them unconditionally - and did 'discipline' them: they are wonderful adults now.

Just another reason for me to ignore the Bible. God certainly didn't 'spare the rod' - did he?

Nothing in that scripture says we should beat our kids, only to punish them if they do things that are not acceptable. I spanked my kids when they were young and doing it the right way made it so I never had to spank them when they got older. They learned that they are responsible for their actions.

Teaching our kids to respect those who deserve respect is crucial. I see that many people in society want respect because of their position in society, not for their actions. I respect good people, not just because they are politicians, rich, or have prestigious jobs and titles. Now, not all people in this class do not deserve respect, but their actions should be what get respect. I tried to teach this to my children, but of course, the schools tried to change what I taught them.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Bible scriptures have been abused since the book was written. People used the word of god to justify what they believed was right then convinced others that their interpretation was correct. Jesus never intended that his words would be used to kill off a bunch of Indians in this country, people twisted what he said to justify their desires.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs



My own experience with society/clergy/and others in churches convinced me that aside from reading and studying the Bible on my own I had to unlearn what I took for granit was in the thing . We sometimes think that we can only get a notion of what is in the bible from the churches and clergy but the TV and society in general can play a big role in errors .

A common thing you hear is "doesn't the bible teach that ----------" The varying of teaching's come from not studying the text and only picking up on a verse hear or a verse there .Isolated it can produce doctrine the bible really doesn't teach but that is or has more to do with dividing then anything else .

10 or 20 years ago I wanted to take a coarse at a Baptist College but found that I couldn't adhere with their statement of faith. For the most part it was something that was true but there was a part that was outside of the bible and so I decided that I would be better off searching out other teachers that were not or didn't have a boat in a denominational pond .

The Bible and what is in it is so far from what I had presupposed in the beginning that I am amazed as to how ignorant I was in the beginning .It is not that complicated and can be easily understood if you find a good teacher to help . Lately I have been taking in as much Micheal Heiser as I can . drmsh.com... He has a good podcast on some of the basics of the Christian faith that is sound doctrinally and sorts out the traditions of men and the church to cut the confusion ....

a reply to: rickymouse

Yeppers! Thanks for stating it so succinctly.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

"Spare the rod, spoil the child" is a hacked up version of the original (not surprisingly). It's actually more like "spare the rod, and you hate your son. Love him, and you quickly chastise him"

From Young's Literal Translation:

Whoso is sparing his rod is hating his son, And whoso is loving him hath hastened him chastisement.

Source

Unfortunately, my dad took the "rod" part literally. I don't have any problem with discipline. In fact, I think people have gotten WAY too "soft" when dealing with kids and that's why there are so many brats today. But abuse is never acceptable.

I was spanked with a wooden spoon once and with bare hands a few times. I don't feel it had any adverse effects. Yes, I am a messed up individual in some regards. I have "issues", but not from the spanking I received as a child.

Anyway, one phantom "verse" that comes to mind is "cleanliness is next to Godliness". I do not recall seeing that in the Bible.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I think if someone is an abusive person, they are going to be abusive, Bible or no Bible, but it's too bad your dad tried to use the Bible as an excuse for his actions. I'm guessing if he didn't have the Bible, he'd have found another excuse. Again, I'm sorry that happened to you. It doesn't seem like, in your case, that the cycle of violence will continue, since you have recognised that kind of behavior as abuse. So that's good So many times I hear of the abused growing up to become abusers.

These days, it almost seems like taking away their electronics, especially mobile devices or tv/video games, is worse, in the eyes of the children, than a spanking would be... As long as they can go zone out afterwards, I bet they would prefer an instant justice in the form of a paddling than the prolonged agony of being disconnected from the web for days... Of course, a spanking or paddling is not the same as a ruthless beating, which is something I'm quite sure no child wants.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I too have read many books about the Bible and I think it's a good thing. It's a good way to get to know the time frame, the thought processes and the person who wrote it. I do believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. So I will always follow the Bible first and use the additional man made books to round it out. Even for people with learning disabilities there is a tool out there to help, there is easy to understand common language Bibles, the intense correspondence Bibles, the quick passages that you simply type in - no one should feel intimidated to read it. I know a lot of people think it's too hard but it's our history, our present time and the future and a love letter to all people.

I love the whole picture of things and I love to understand things. I have read the Bible twice from end to end and it's fascinating. It can be overwhelming but one is to always pray before reading for understand and that the Holy Spirit will guide you. As a Christian the Holy Spirit lives within us and so helps us to understand and to discern ("gut feeling" for those who aren't Christian, but it's deeper than a gut feeling). The internet is a fantastic tool to use. I use it all the time when looking up verses and it just helps emphasize the experience because there are so many writings and takes on the same passages. That's where discernment comes in. We live in such an amazing time of having information at our finger tips and having the ability to seek the world over for teachings and wise people to follow. We are no longer stuck in little hamlets having to attend a fire and brimstone church and watch our p's and q's, in the sense of questioning a leader's take on the word.

I am with you on the learning thing. From my life and upbringing I could have stopped all growth and just withered away with self pity and defeat. Instead I choose to learn from everything that occurs in my life and I try to learn more about God's word. It truly is like an onion as so many say. I can't tell you how many times I have understood a Bible passage to mean something and then when someone more knowledgeable points something out it again is another "aha" moment that expands upon the original meaning. I guess I could compare it to a snow fallen day. You wake up one day and there is a blanket of gorgeous snow gleaming in front of you. But you venture out and sweep away the snow and find a lovely garden buried beneath and it speaks to you. You dig one day and find a lovely bejewelled box under the soil. You value it for what it is. But digging deeper there is a scroll inside. That has worth. But then you read the words and they speak to you more than any physical object ever could. I am sure you know what I mean but I say this for all the unbelievers reading this - it truly is a miracle book. And until one reads it one can't fathom how it all fits. I'm not pressuring you or anyone, I'm just saying for all the naysayers that it's a living manual that starts to make sense once you start putting all the pieces together. Learning is what fills our mind and soul with fulfilment I believe.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Do you, ATS, ever wonder if you're being told things that aren't in fact in the Bible? What would you do, or how would you feel if you found out that something you'd thought was in there was NOT in there after all?

No I don't, but only because I know the Bible. I know which books are in there, which aren't, and what each one's overall theme is. I've probably only read 90% of it though, there's a few odd chapters I've skipped in my more lazy past.

I'm glad I'm not even 50% ignorant to what's in the Bible, much less worse than that. If I were ignorant to the full extent of the Bible, It'd be especially hard to have a leg to stand on in any serious discussion or debate regarding ... well .. even the mere existence of a monotheistic God.

Then I think about just how many people hate Christians and/or Christianity, and haven't even read most of the Bible, much less all of it. They learn to hate it for certain reasons; usually they hate some of the followers and demonize the religion entirely to more easily hate on those people.

I wouldn't worry about a pastor or religious leader quoting imaginary Bible verses that don't even exist because I'd look into my pastor etc. of choice for some time instead of being some blind ignorant sheep type, which is how most of you view us (non-theists/atheists vs christians/monotheists).

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I have no idea. I just know as the parent of young child that if I didn't discipline my child and stick to the limits I set strictly I'd wind up with a perfect little animal instead of a human being in the end. You see the results of uneven parenting all around you. They're the kids no one wants around.

I have given my kid a spanking. I said once in another thread, and that's once for me. We've spanked him I think two or three times.

I spanked him when he was little because he was physically abusing our cats. I told him to leave them alone several times with no results, and when I caught him outright hitting one of our cats, I gave him a swat. I felt it appropriate to demonstrate why he shouldn't hit the cats.