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"Weird Winter Weather Plot Thickens as Arctic Swiftly Warms"

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posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 02:58 PM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Where are we now in your graph?

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:09 PM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The reality is that the caps are melting, islands are sinking, flora and fauna are adapting at higher altitudes, and we need to plan for and deal with it. These changes are not going to be reversed in our lifetimes or our children's. And I think to your point, this is even more of an indication that we need to deal with the here and now.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:14 PM
A pole shift has been happening for the last...oh I don't know, since we started measuring the magnetic poles? That's my guess in fact isn't it somewhere over Canada at the moment? Just giving an opinion before I actually read the thread, I prefer to be uninformed, see how off I am.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:25 PM
a reply to: onequestion

The "new introduction" into the system that she is talking about is CO2, or in this case anthropogenic CO2.

Yet, CO2 levels have been much higher in the past and instead of warming there has been cooling in past climate changes...

Not to mention that in times like the Medieval, Roman, and Minoan warming periods, as examples, CO2 levels did not increase much yet temperatures did increase a lot more than they are now.

Water vapor is a far more potent ghg than CO2 ever will, and during times of warming, as the Earth comes out of ice ages and the atmosphere warms, the content of vater vapor continues to rise, which causes warming.

Then there is the fact of the underwater volcanoes which have been heating up, for example in Antarctica. (Yes, I know Antarctica is in the southern hemisphere)

Has everyone forgot this?

Melting of a major glacier system in western Antarctica may be caused by underwater volcanoes, and not by global climate change, according to new research.

Thwaites Glacier, a massive outlet for ice that empties into Pine Island Bay, is flowing at a rate of one-and-a-quarter miles per year. The bay opens up into the Amundsen Sea.

The Thwaites Glacier has been the subject of scrutiny by climatologists in the last few years, as new information about the severity of the melting becomes available. Traditional models had assumed heating from subterranean sources was fairly even around the region. New data provides details about areas where little was previously known.

University of Texas researchers studied how water moves underground in the region. They found liquid water was present in a greater number of sources than previously believed, and it is warmer than estimated in previous studies.

"It's the most complex thermal environment you might imagine. And then you plop the most critical, dynamically unstable ice sheet on planet Earth in the middle of this thing, and then you try to model it. It's virtually impossible," Don Blankenship, senior research scientist at the University of Texas, said.

There are millions of underwater volcanoes, far more in quantity and more massive than those on land. But not one of the AGW proponent wants to entertain the idea that so many volcanoes can also be responsible for at least some of the melting that has been going on in both the Arctic and Antarctic.

Here is an image that was taken in 2006 showing volcanic ashes on the sea bed of Gakkel Ridge.(The Arctic)

The Earth's magnetic field is weakening, this in turn points to extreme changes occurring to Earth's core, which increase volcanic activity, and this is helping heat the oceans. But it doesn't make any sense right?...

edit on 21-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add link.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:29 PM
What I don't understand is who cares if this is man-made or not?

People are freezing to death, and dying of heat stroke. We need to find out ways to figure out how to survive with weather extremes.

Maybe we're causing it, maybe we're not. Shouldn't we at least try not to treat our only home like a garbage dump though? It would be one thing if we were a two planet species and had a escape plan.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:32 PM
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Oh yes, for many years I have been explaining in ATS that we need to prepare to ADAPT. We are going to have to move out of coastal areas, eventually as it has happened in the past, coasts will be claimed by the oceans.

Similar changes have occurred in the past, but what certain groups, and governments are doing is implementing more taxes on people while not really helping the people prepare for these changes.

Haven't you noticed for how many years governments have been building seed bunkers? and even underground cities?

Do you think you will be allowed to be in one of these underground bunkers, and cities when tshtf?

There are no preparations for relocation of city populations being made, in fact what is happening is people are being blamed for "Climate Change", you are being told that you must pay new taxes, and these taxes are being used to enrich the rich, while they prepare and leave the rest of the world to fend for themselves and without any plans to relocate people to other areas.

But, that makes sense right?

edit on 21-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 03:35 PM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Great info give me some time to comb through it.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 04:08 PM
instead of billions going to renewables, we will now have billions going to repair weather-related damages...keep that oil a-pumpin', yeehaa!!!

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 04:44 PM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

But there is no signs that the known underwater volcanic activity has an effect more than in localized areas, and most of the "millions" of underwater volcanos you speak of are inactive, it would take some major volcanic eruptions to have an effect over a large area.

Even though those major eruptions do happen, they are not enough to change the ocean temperature over a large area, or an entire ocean.

Here is a guy that is much better at explaining it than i am.

Effects of Subsea Volcanic Heat

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 04:53 PM

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: eriktheawful

Hey I'm trying to understand your post a little here, I may be a little mentally challenged here so forgive me...

What exactly do you think is happening? I don't need evidence im just curious about your perspective.

My perspective on the Jet Stream?

It moves, it bends, it dips, it curves. Always has.

It looks to me like they're trying to say that the very cold temps we've been having in the east and warm temps in the west, are due to the Jet Stream.

They're right.

However, they seem to be acting like it never does this, that it's something abnormal.

I've seen single digit temps here in the winter time. Not always. Some winters have been very mild. Others bring lots of snow. Some bring no frozen precep at all. Still others bring really bad ice storms. That's winter here in the SE part of the US.

My grandparents when they were alive, used to talk about some of the snow storms they saw here in the early 1970s.

My father remembers some brutally cold winters here back in the early 1950s.

Now, however, when ever we have winters where the temps swing pretty low for a time, or a good ice storm move through, people start screaming about Global Warming, acting as if none of these weather events ever happen.

But they do, and have.

Climates do change. It's possible that we (humans) maybe having an effect on it. What I really do get tired of is how every little thing has people on the roof tops screaming that it's cause is AGW.

Look! One of my chickens laid a blue egg! Then someone yells that it was caused by Global Warming.

Reminds me of the late 1970s, early 1980s were just about everything was blamed on El Nino for the longest time.

Problem with talking about it is: if someone starts claiming that some weather event or pattern of weather is because of AGW, and you either point out the same weather or pattern happening in the past, the other person(s) tend to jump up and scream "DENIER!!!" with a pointed finger, looking down their nose at you.

Reminds me a LOT of someone back in the really old days doing the same thing, only using the word "BLASPHERMER!!!", at which point they would tie you to a stake and burn you alive.

I don't deny climate change. The Earth's climate has always been changing ever since the Earth formed an atmosphere. I don't deny that humans can have an effect on the Earth. Just light off every single nuclear weapon we have and watch what will happen. Look at the damage we've done through pollution and deforresting huge areas of the Earth.

What does make me shake my head is how everything has to be because of AGW. You get really numb from it and stop reading or listening to any of it, because the discussion always boils down to :

"Yes it is!"
"No it isn't!"

Spinning wheels, going no where fast.

What I would like to see happen is:

1) All politicians are BANNED from having ANYTHING to do with climate research.
2) NO funding from any government or corporations.
3) ALL research is shared and completely transparent. Nothing is hidden. Nothing is refused when asked for. That would be all climate data, and computer modeling software to show how the models are done.

Never going to happen though.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 04:58 PM
a reply to: eriktheawful

What's AGW can you clarify please?

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:23 PM
a reply to: onequestion

Anthropogenic global warming.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:26 PM
a reply to: onequestion

thesaneone answered your question.

Simplified: Man made global warming.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:35 PM
Here are some similar instances in the past when climate change in the form of warming caused disasters.


Copyright © 2007 Elsevier Ltd and INQUA All rights reserved.
Extreme Nile floods and famines in Medieval Egypt (AD 930–1500) and their climatic implications

References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Fekri A. Hassana,

aInstitute of Archaeology, University College London, 31-34 Gordon Square, WC1H 0PY, London, UK

Available online 7 June 2007.

Nile gauge records of variations in Nile floods from the 9th century to the 15th century AD reveal pronounced episodes of low Nile and high Nile flood discharge. Historical data reveal that this period was also characterized by the worst known famines on record. Exploratory comparisons of variations in Nile flood discharge with high-resolution data on sea surface temperature of the North Atlantic climate from three case studies suggest that rainfall at the source of the Nile was influenced by the North Atlantic Oscillation. However, there are apparently flip-flop reversals from periods when variations in Nile flood discharge are positively related to North Atlantic warming to periods where the opposite takes place. The key transitions occur atAD 900, 1010, 1070, 1180, 1350 and 1400. The putative flip-flop junctures, which require further confirmation, appear to be quite rapid and some seem to have had dramatic effects on Nile flood discharge, especially if they recurred at short intervals, characteristic of the period from the 9th to the 14th century, coincident with the so-called Medieval Warm Period. The transition from one state to the other was characterized by incidents of low, high or a succession of both low and high extreme floods. The cluster of extreme floods was detrimental causing famines and economic disasters that are unmatched over the last 2000 years.

Late Holocene Environmental and Hydrologic Conditions in Northwestern Florida Derived from Seasonally Resolved Profiles of delta18O and Sr/Ca of Fossil Bivalves.
Elliot, M.; de Menocal, P. B.; Linsley, B. K.; Howe, S. S.; Guilderson, T.; Quitmyer, I. R.
American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2002, abstract #PP72A-0429

The average annual and summer Sr/Ca of 4 fossil shells are higher than that of modern bivalves from the same location suggesting that annual coastal water temperatures were 3 to 4° C warmer than today. The bulk δ18O values show a marked trend towards more positive values. 24 fossil shells have bulk δ18O values 0.2permil to 0.7permil more positive than modern bivalves from the same location. These results suggest that the coastal waters off northwest Florida were warmer and less saline compared to today and attest of considerable differences of the regional climate and hydrological balance during the Medieval Warm Period and Roman Warm Period.

The above paper is from 2002. Last I checked temperatures haven't increased in south Florida 3 to 4° C as it was during the Medieval and Roman warming.

The same warming has been found all over the globe, from China, Russia, Europe, Africa, North America and South America. Temperatures during the Medieval and Roman Warming periods, among others, were much warmer than they are now. Yet we are being told by some that the current climate change is "unprecedented" and "it hasn't been this warm for thousands of years", and this is simply a lie.

Not to mention that CO2 content during those times was much lower than now, at around 280-290 ppm compared to today at 390 - 400 ppm. The fact is that water vapor by molecule is far more potent as a ghg than CO2 will ever be, and water vapor contributes 95% -97% or more of the greenhouse effect. The warmer the atmosphere, the more vapor vapor it can hold, and the warmer it gets. The current warming started in the 1600s, over 250+ years before the advent of the industrial revolution.

As for the warming in the current era? The evidence keeps pointing to...

Oceanic Influences on Recent Continental Warming
Climate Diagnostics Center,
Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences,
University of Colorado, and
Physical Sciences Division, Earth System Research Laboratory,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
325 Broadway R/PSD1
Boulder CO 80305-3328
(303) 497-6115
(303) 497-6449

Compo, G.P., and P.D. Sardeshmukh, 2008: Oceanic influences on recent continental warming. Climate
Dynamics, doi: 10.1007/s00382-008-0448-9.
This article is published by Springer-Verlag. This author-created version is distributed courtesy of Springer-Verlag.
The original publication is available from at

Evidence is presented that the recent worldwide land warming has occurred largely in response to a worldwide warming of the oceans rather than as a direct response to increasing greenhouse gases (GHGs) over land.

Atmospheric model simulations of the last half-century with prescribed observed ocean temperature changes, but without prescribed GHG changes, account for most of the land warming. The oceanic influence has occurred through hydrodynamic-radiative teleconnections, primarily by moistening and warming the air over land and increasing the downward longwave radiation at the surface. The oceans may themselves have warmed from a combination of natural and anthropogenic influences.

edit on 21-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:37 PM
a reply to: eriktheawful

Oh I don't buy the man made global warming bit on any level.

Kinda lost me on that one.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:44 PM
a reply to: kosmicjack

Can someone please focus on the obvious? Yes man is contributing in gigantic ways towards his/her destruction...but lets try to avoid getting embroiled in political associations with this information.

This # happens, and you can either mitigate it, or be a victim to it. We need trees, plants, green things! Geeziz people, its the roads and corporate farms that are the real problem...sure cars add to it, but again international corporations are the biggest culprits here. What sequesters carbon naturally, what is part of the natural process? PLANTS.

We can keep charging each other more taxes or we can get to fixing our paradigm. I am so OVER all of the same ol, dry, un-inspired, foolish politically motivated data.

Physics and Nature is readily apparent, we dont need politically motivated assessments to correct appropriate vision.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:47 PM

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Rezlooper

We forgot, Rezlooper has lived so many lives on Earth that he should know what is normal and what isn't normal for Earth's climate...

Yes, the climate is changing... Tell me when has the climate NEVER changed...

Let's see...

Medieval Warm Period... warmer...
Roman Warm Period... Warmer...
Minoan Warm Period...warmer...

Here is the temperature reconstruction from GISP2 ice core data in Greenland for the past 4,000 years.

Those are some examples, there are many others like those. Yet according to some, "we are at unprecedented times"... "It's warmer now than EVER before"

Does anyone who subscribes to the Anthropogenic Global Warming false claims knows how many past civilizations have been displaced because of past climate changes? INCLUDING warming?,,, Anyone?...

i find it extremely telling how the Anthropogenic Global Warming doom pron brigade always ignore the fact that there are other changes happening on Earth such as the weakening magnetic field, which has been weakening even more rapidly since the beginning of 2014.

But of course, according to the AGW doom porn brigade "it's not possible that whatever is causing the changes to Earth's magnetic field could also be behind the climate changes"...

It's not like other planets in the solar system, and even the sun have been undergoing similar extreme changes right?.... right?....

Hey Electric, I'm not talking about past life times, I'm talking about the NOW! I'm not professing to know what our ancestors lived through or were displaced from. But, I do know that methane gas levels weren't as high as they are now at any time in our past since 400,000 years ago according to your ice cores you reference. Also, in my post, I only reference effects not causation. I simply don't know what is causing this here and now, except I do know that at our current rate of GHG emissions (and I mean the natural sources alone) we don't stand a chance. It's like nothing we have experienced in our recorded history. The more our ocean and air temperatures increase, the more methane gas will continue to release from natural sources like melting hydrates, volcanoes, melting ice and permafrost, increasing wildfires, warming wetlands and well, you get my point.

Oh wait, you are basically here arguing that all this is caused by electric comets! Well, I'm not going to argue against you because at this point I don't know what the cause is and maybe the weakening magnetic field and the sudden release of methane gas in 2007 may be related. Yeah, that's the truth of this whole thing. Methane gas levels were slowly increasing since the start of the Industrial Age and then in 1997, suddenly, the atmospheric methane levels began to level off and held steady somewhere around 700 ppb. But, then in 2007, just as suddenly as it stopped, the methane levels began increasing again and at a far faster rate than ever before, already surpassing 2,000 ppb in some areas and some experts believe that methane levels past 1,200 ppb is an unlivable level for humans. This is the biggest mystery of them all....why did methane levels suddenly begin increasing again. No one seems to know or want to talk about it. They credited better Asian aquaculture techniques as the cause for the leveling off in 1997, although I believe it may have been something else entirely. So, was it something cosmic that got it started in 2007? I don't know, but I do know that it was in the few years after 2007 that many phenomenon began increasing in frequency and intensity as well, such as smaller earthquakes, volcanic activity, sinkholes, fireball sightings, extreme weather events, the loud boom and explosion phenomenon and there are many more (many discussed here at ATS over the years).

And remember folks, methane gas levels have everything to do with these out-of-whack jet streams. Methane gas is 25 times more potent at trapping the sun's heat than is Carbon. The higher the atmospheric methane levels get, the warmer our atmospheric temperatures will get, which in turn will cause moisture to increase causing severe weather systems like the ones in Indonesia and that region of the world. It's these massive systems that our deflecting the jet stream high up over Alaska.

It may be that all of our arguing is pointless. The natural sources of methane gas are far more threatening now than the manmade sources. We may have already reached the tipping point. I don't know how we start cooling the oceans and the Arctic region to get hydrates and permafrost to stop thawing.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 05:54 PM
a reply to: Rezlooper

Hey Electric, I'm not talking about past life times, I'm talking about the NOW!

Thats a problem man because past data is all we really have to determining future outcomes. If you look at the past the weather is constantly changing in an oscillating pattern as we move through the galaxy/ universe the weather is always changing depending on our place in the greater universal engine.

Nature require balance so we can on some level use these variables to predict future outcomes.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:07 PM

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Rezlooper

Hey Electric, I'm not talking about past life times, I'm talking about the NOW!

Thats a problem man because past data is all we really have to determining future outcomes. If you look at the past the weather is constantly changing in an oscillating pattern as we move through the galaxy/ universe the weather is always changing depending on our place in the greater universal engine.

Nature require balance so we can on some level use these variables to predict future outcomes.

Yes, the weather is always changing, but have we seen anything like this in our lifetimes? That's all that should really matter right? What are we facing in our near future.

posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 06:10 PM
a reply to: Rezlooper

Your argument is that "mankind has caused climate change so we should try to change the climate more". Don't you see how illogical such an argument is? More so when there is no evidence that the climate change has been caused by mankind?

The Earth's magnetic field has been dramatically weakening for the most part, in some small areas it has strengthened. This corroborates the evidence that shows there has been an increase in volcanic and seismic activity worldwide, more so underwater, where there are over 3 million volcanoes which have been helping to heat up oceans.

The most warming has been noted to occur in areas that are far removed from civilization, which points again that the source of such warming cannot be CO2, because if it was it should be warmer close to the sources of extra/anthropogenic CO2 and not in the remote areas.

Current warmth seems to be occurring nearly everywhere at the same time and is largest at high latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere. Over the last 50 years, the largest annual and seasonal warmings have occurred in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Peninsula. Most ocean areas have warmed. Because these areas are remote and far away from major cities, it is clear to climatologists that the warming is not due to the influence of pollution from urban areas.

Yet, you are talking about trying to cool the Arctic and other areas by anthropogenic forcing...

What we should be doing is prepare, and adapt to these changes. Not try to play God and try to change the climate...

edit on 21-2-2015 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

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