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Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

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posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: RedCairo

To be honest, your post gave me chills.

1ofthe9 has a good point. My high strangeness reached a peak when I was "dickin" around with Enochian magic and angels, fallen or other wise. Your descriptors Red Cairo - are so parallel as to what I also experienced in part - it's a bit unnerving.

If it's a strong thread of commonality amongst 'experiencers', it shouldn't be ignored or tossed aside off hand. However, I wouldn't even know if researchers ever collect that sort of data from somebody who just witnessed a light in the sky. "Excuse me, sir. But you wouldn't happen to be spiritual and curious and tinker around with the occult would you? Or have a deep faith and belief in inter dimensional beings from another space we can't normally see or perceive, and are trying to contact them? Do you Ouija?"


You might be able to ask these questions in a paranormal investigation and get some leeway for asking such disturbing things. However, I don't think that line of questioning is used by mufon or UFO investigators. I mean, I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if they could muster out that vein of investigation in any serious, cordial, non judgemental way.

CdT




posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

As far as props go (Enochian calls, Greater and Lesser Seal of Solomon,
Tarot, Ouji, etc) they are stage dressing, which deeply affect your mind
and nail your focus in place, before you ever begin to use them.

The mind goes "OMG - this is ancient and powerful crap!!!" so you enter
into it with passion and a fear that 'critters' will come for you.

So it's no surprise when they do.

I suppose I'm a minimallist.

If I wanted to do a 'working' as they call it, I'd just take a marking
pen and write a symbol encapsulating what I wanted on some
interesting part of my body (under my clothing) and put transparent
tape over it. My unconscious mind would fasten upon the novelty
and keep 'feeding it'. When I wanted the 'working to end and become
''real''', I'd suddenly yank off the tape (and small piece of paper if
I did that and not directly on my skin) and burn it / bathe wash
off the ink. Perhaps with some salt in the water.

That has all the necessary elements of a solo 'working' and none
of the nonsense. It would be more likely to give a good result
rather than 'conjure up' 'scary entities'.

Heck. If any of you guys want to see a 'BT UFO' just draw a picture
of one on a scrap of paper.. draw some highly personal symbols
around it (use what means something to you, that would make it
real). Tape it to your body under your clothes for a few days.

Then on a Tuesday night 1 hour before the Sun goes down,
rip it off. Cleanse it off. Decide that you don't care whether
it works or not (let it go).

If you happen to be outside over the next few days, just before
sundown and looking to the east and you might see something..
or maybe not.

;-)

Kev



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 01:50 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Reminds me of one particular incident, but instead of a Big Black Triangle, I got a lithe red head.

I was curious and so messed around with Enochian, Voodou, Chaos Magik ... many fads from "Generation Hex" in the 80's-90's if I'm honest... and determined it works... sometimes.

I was sad about not knowing any females I could relate to one night, lit a few candles, scribbled a few sigils... burned them... and within twenty minutes, a woman appeared at my door clad in a fur coat and nothing else... I had seen her around, maybe three times in as many months? But wasn't on an any name basis with her... and that... startled me.

It gave me the willies ...considering free will, etc. ... and I never did such elaborate ritual again ...but we stayed together 16 years.

She never could explain why she did that... embarrassed by it? "No. Didn't really know... just got an urge... made some calls, found out where you live..." was the answer I got. I decided not to grill her and would rather think magik works (at least sometimes). The thing is, though, it seems to work within a mysterious framework, and the really outrageous changes don't come as requested... usually.

I did frame the request with "if it's good for her, too" as I had read black magik involves bending others' will despite their well being... the usual occult "wisdom" that's likely not at all, but I like the implied morality. But I still dislike the ideas such things spawn about our illusory autonomy... and have no desire to control people (although it's really way too easy with most).

Buuuut it generates so many questions and I have considered that there is a complex, blurred web of wills and cross purposes and that's why it only works sometimes... but the fact it seems to work at all was astounding at the time.

And I wondered if I had done that ritual due to HER influence... a mental universe can be tricky.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Yes - the problem is rarely that 'it'
doesn't work - the problem is if
'it' does.

Yes - how do we know whether the event
would have happened on it's own or
not? That the 'trick' is that something
or someone else 'made us do the
pointless ritual' so that we believe
in this stuff.

I can count on one hand the number
of times I've done something
formally in 53 years - and that
BTUFO was one of them.

On the other hand we constantly
and more subtly use our intention
all day long. So there is no getting
away from 'this stuff'.

We either do things to spook
ourselves or we don't - but we
are part of the 'landscape'
either way.

And there is nothing wrong with
'asking' ---- but buyer beware of
course.

Neat story!

Kev



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

One more comment.

If you use Tarot cards you plug into the
'landscape' one way. There are semi-real
entities waiting to interact with you in a
way highly similar to how other humans
have interacted with them.

If you use automatic writing or channeling
or ouji or witchcraft or prayer....it's all the
same.

My point is.....all those silly methods have
centuries of baggage' attached. It winds
up that the baggage becomes more 'real'
than what you are trying to accomplish.

This is why I don't drink the poison cool aid
of any system.

Systems exist to feed on you.....that's it.

Kev



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:33 PM
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Okay - my turn...Nothing 'woo' ever happened, but...

When I met my husband I was a 'practicing' Wiccan (solo though, just learning from books). I never full-out 'did' the rituals, because they seemed so convoluted and time consuming (and I am both a chronic fatigue sufferer and lazy by nature), plus it always made sense to me that it was the intention that counted so I would just do whatever came into my head that felt 'right'...

Anyway, all I ever 'got' out of it was a sense of the 'spiritual', except for two 'big' things - my husband and my house...

With my husband - we both knew when we met that marriage was inevitable, but 'I' knew that he was a bit of a dilly-dallier and would have let things drag out for years and being that he was 32 and I was nearly 30, I just felt that the "inevitable" might as well get on with it...

For that one the only thing I did 'ritual-wise' was (dare I admit?) stand under the full moon, wearing nothing but a silver and amethyst neckless, concentrating on the intention (and like BadDogma, I made it clear that my 'work' should only be effective if it was 'for the good' - which is a part of Wiccan 'creed' anyway).

The result - Four months after we met he proposed and six months after that we were married...last fall we celebrated our 20th anniversary and it's looking like 'sticking' for the long-haul..

The 2nd thing I 'manifested' was my house - which was most surprising, actually...

...We were living in a town home which I hated, because I hated sharing 'a wall' with my neighbors, but our financial 'plan' showed that it would be 4 to 5 years before we could afford a house (in an area convenient to work at least)...

Well, one day I was sitting at my desk thinking about really wishing we could afford a house and (really out of boredom), I started drawing a pentacle and in the spaces between the lines I wrote things to the effect - 'by 1999 we will be affordably living in the house of our dreams'. When I was done, I folded it up, took it home, tucked it under the drawer of my jewelry box and (without intending to) totally forgot about it...

...Cut to 7 or 8 years later - I'm going thru my things, and coming across the piece of paper I remember doing the pentacle thing, open it up and realize that it had actually worked! In 1998 the mortgage interest rates in our area unexpectedly (and temporarily!) went down, and we were able to afford house in a wonderful neighborhood, just over 15 minutes drive from my husband's job (by then we had our daughter and I was no longer working)..

Okay, I'm sorry - maybe none of that is really pertinent to the thread? It seemed in line with current discussion...
edit on 6-3-2015 by lostgirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Oh dear - I have some tarot cards, I rarely ever use them, because it's hard not to read 'into' what you're seeing...

...but when I do use them, I always (while shuffling) make 'statements' like, "only Love may 'work' thru these cards"...

Do you think that's okay?

Also, I only use them at home, which I did a ritual 'protection' on years ago when a 'healer' I was going to said there were malevolent 'spirits' around me...



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:43 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl

It's pertinent. This thread is deeply about
'intention and the paranormal landscape'.

It's the same landscape for houses, mates
and 'UFOs'....

Kev



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl

I'm not your daddy 😊

You are an adult (you are older than me!)
and you aren't dumb. I'm sure you can
make your own choices!

(this is treating you with respect)

Kev



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
a reply to: RedCairo
...

You might be able to ask these questions in a paranormal investigation and get some leeway for asking such disturbing things. However, I don't think that line of questioning is used by mufon or UFO investigators. I mean, I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if they could muster out that vein of investigation in any serious, cordial, non judgemental way.

CdT



As far as I know, it's not only not asked by MUFON, if an experiencer mentions it, it's excluded from the report or the experiencer is regarded as unreliable.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Actually, I wasn't asking 'permission'
I was asking your opinion - do you think that's safe?

Because they are the most beautiful tarot cards I've ever seen...and the archetypal images are portrayed in a way that is just so 'me', that it really 'feels' as if they were 'meant' for me...

p.s. I can't be much older - as you say you've been on your "path" 50 years, and I've only been on the planet 51 (as of Sunday!).
edit on 6-3-2015 by lostgirl because: to add p.s.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

In the Bluebook cases I've read, if the experiencer 'believes in' UFOs, their reliability is questioned!



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 04:23 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma


Love me that Lilly... maybe it's ECCO (in fact, my own cogitation was likely spawned, partially, by reading Lilly years ago)... in fact it's probably ECCO or something like it, actually...


I always thought it was really silly, like WTF? Silly. Anyway, I had a history professor that knew Lilly and even did the infamous "tank experiments' with him, or so he claimed. this was 1986 or so and I was 18. I had already been to a dozen dead shows by then I am sure
so I was no stranger to this and, I believe, had already been reading Lilly. So this guy would start off the semester with all this info and the virtues of....that stuff. So I, of course, made sure I took a couple more classes with him and made sure I aced every test and, of course, followed him to his office after class where he would be happy to talk to me about Dr. Lilly.

He still teaches apparently. Just read a review: "At first I got a weird impression off of Dr. XXXX. He's crazy, that's for sure, but he's brilliant. He talks a lot about aliens..."
That's him alright

So about 6 years ago I ran into him at my son's soccer tryouts. He was 6 at the time. Well apparently the professor had a son the same age. So I strike up a conversation with him and told him I had him...I was overcome with this "ECCO" thing. Weird. right? I never brought up any of that. I was tormented about it like I should have kneeled down and begged him to take me in under his wing so we could go off in ECCO land or something. Luckily the rational side took over and I decided I wanted nothing to do with it...but you know what? I found myself going through a divorce not long after that and this one phrase got my attention "Cosmic Love is absolutely Ruthless and Highly Indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." By this time coincidences were already happening as I mentioned earlier and I let them happen for a while which led me to now but the coincidences stopped happening or I just don't notice them or they aren't really coincidences and I was just a tad delusional.

So what doe this have to do with UFOs? no clue, but its related somehow, I think.

No, wait. ECCO was communicated by alien beings of some sort www.conspiracyarchive.com...

edit on 6-3-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 04:27 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl

I was conscious in the womb...no joke.
I need a vacation....

The cards are just cards...unless
you do the bad ju ju with them.

I myself like the Crowley deck...
not the Waite deck. But havent
owned any for 30 years.

Kev



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: lostgirl


And happy 51 to you!

I thought you were nearing 60
my bad.



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: ZetaRediculian

If I remember right (and I haven't checked your links yet), Lilly finally came to think the agents of ECCO were aspects of himself, or a conglomerate, greater future self pulling the strings in this "simulation"of multiple incarnations from a more "real" future ...or at least a place above this timeline ( pothole universe? anyone?).

And yeah, I thought it silly good fun when I read it as a young adult... but had to respect Lilly's mind... even awash with drugs he was smarter than the average pink ape.

So now I think not only was he on the level and relating real experiences (though possibly erroneous ones as he was really high), but I think he really got a glimpse... behind one set of curtains, anyway.

Weird stuff... but so is average day-to-day reality, just sitting at the breakfast table, eating Cheerios.

ETA Yo 1-9 ...yeah, The Scientist (1978) and Center of the Cyclone (1972) The Human Biocomputer (1974) off the top of my head... actually ALL he wrote is fascinating.. .Man and Dolphin, etc. etc


edit on 3/6/2015 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 06:37 PM
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originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Reminds me of one particular incident, but instead of a Big Black Triangle, I got a lithe red head.

I was curious and so messed around with Enochian, Voodou, Chaos Magik ... many fads from "Generation Hex" in the 80's-90's if I'm honest... and determined it works... sometimes.

I was sad about not knowing any females I could relate to one night, lit a few candles, scribbled a few sigils... burned them... and within twenty minutes, a woman appeared at my door clad in a fur coat and nothing else... I had seen her around, maybe three times in as many months?


Sounds like you found a Scarlet Woman.
Never tried burning the sigils, might have to give that a shot.

edit: Are there any good books on Lilly? I'm curious about the Ecco stuff and his work with dolphins.
edit on 12015f3106America/Chicago9 by 1ofthe9 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: Baddogma

Weird stuff... but so is average day-to-day reality, just sitting at the breakfast table, eating Cheerios.

Yes indeed. For me its like those pictures where sometimes you see the faces and sometimes you see the vase. You have your day to day stuff like working, paying the bills and then you have that other reality. Yes, I can "let go" but no beings will be doing any penetrating unless they want their butts kicked.

a reply to: 1ofthe9

The Center of the Cyclone was an interesting read if I recall. Both the movies, Altered States and Day of the Dolphin were based on him.
edit on 6-3-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
I mean, functionally, 'we'
are parasites riding this 'ape body' around, and we
seldom feel sorry for it or apologize to it for filling it
full of stress and bad food.

I do actually. :-)

I am an 'emergent property' who exists solely for executive decision, was a semi recent 'mystical realization' you might say. My job is to not be biased. I can experience 'with' any part of me but if I over-identify then I bias against all the other parts. The so-called me of the body is the 'woven tapestry' combination of my aeons and chakras and other things and I'm the intelligence that arose from that combo and is supposed to be making CEO decisions to lead the body-mind in a good direction. (So really: I don't, I can't, exist. Only I would get such existential panick-angst over a realization like this in the middle of my workday. "I don't exist!" I fix some XML. "I'm not me! There's no such thing! I can't exist!" I write a report. I'm glad my larger mind has a sense of humor. How would we survive otherwise?)

I didn't know how much I loved 'body' as its own entity until I'd nearly killed her, dammit. Now I'm digging myself out of that hole and hoping I still have time. Which reminds me that some of the things I've been most focused on 'internally' for some time is the table of elements, and amino acids. The elements: powerful intensely specific fundamental building blocks of the universe... the universal language... they are 'qualities'. We recognize their energy as physical due to its place on the spectrum. But a culture short on vitamin K2 and high in lead means the same today as it did for the Romans. Qualities of cultural and personal character, not just things stored in a biomineral matrix like a walking flesh warehouse.

As for the aminos... where the hell have you been all my life baby, I say to them, as I realize that I'd have had the last 20-30 years of desperately better health if only I'd better understood then what I'm coming to now. I haven't done any archmeds on them yet. I've been dirking around and not even finishing the basics of tarot yet. At this rate I need to live to some biblical age to get my act together.

Where was I. I didn't start out to talk about this... I forget. See how you are.

RC



posted on Mar, 6 2015 @ 09:32 PM
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from KPB:
'We' morph into different versions of ourselves, based upon which content we associate with.

Content being the energy/identities I appear to be woven with or at least interacting with... yeah I'd say that sums up my current mystical perspective in a way.


originally posted by: CirqueDeTruth
Your descriptors Red Cairo - are so parallel as to what I also experienced in part - it's a bit unnerving.

When I finally started talking about my experiences (1994) just a little bit on the internet, one thing that blew me away wasn't the aliens, the entities, the -- well get in line, there's a whole list of weird-stuff. It was this:

I'd talk about some incredibly distinct personal experience I was finally digging out of myself and sharing, with great trepidation 'cause damn I knew how it sounded and how it made ME sound. This is PRIVATE stuff. Stuff I hadn't told anybody, or if I had it'd been one person privately. And in many cases each part of it, even in DETAIL, some people would go:

a) "[Yawn] Oh yeah, of course. Glowing red-orange orbs that 'keep their light to themselves' and get bigger and smaller? Yeah, lots of people report those."

Me: wait. This is familiar? REALLY? Holy crap! So like... like... hang on. Why are half the people still saying I'm a lying moron if the other half of the people are admitting that this is some kind of commonly reported experience?! Who's reporting it, where?! And doesn't this suggest some kind of empirical evidence at least?!

b) "Yeah? Oh yeah, the big blonde guys, oxygen mask thing -- like that guy Travis Walton talked about."

Me: wait. Some parts of that experience felt almost dreamlike and some totally not. Is this some kind of "shared dream not fully divided by time?!" Huh, maybe that sums up 'reality.' But wait, how could I have such specific same-kinda-things before I had ever heard any detail of his account? (I avoided the UFO topic completely because I thought I was 'more rational' than most people and it was stupid and/or crazy.)

I once 'saw' in a dream someone I knew (lived a state away) and his wife 'there' and encountered this group of girls, like related, the youngest one had some connection to them. I was freaking out a little and grabbed her and yelled at her to tell me where they had gone, since they had got into coffin-like things filled with the blue gel (a symbol otherwise in very ufo-ish experiences). She just extricated herself and walked away. The next day I'm talking to this guy on the phone and he tells me that the night before he and his wife were doing a meditation with Madimi -- I knew nothing of this -- which apparently is the youngest of seven sisters... some mythological thing but wrapped into his occult workings. The thought that I would encounter something truly novel to me, highly specific to him, and seem to see people I knew from occult stuff, with symbols overlapping the definitely ufo-ish stuff, and yet also ancient myth-symbols, nearly just locked my mind down. I couldn't even see how that could be possible.

When I wrote a case study about my experiences, which I swear I will get on Kindle if my bleeping CPU fans from china ever get here so I can get my own laptop back up and running, one of the things I mentioned was that when I sometimes talked about my experiences online, people would tell me things like: "You can't mention the occult if you want to be taken seriously."

Oh really? You mean someone takes me seriously when I am talking about ALIENS but they don't take me seriously when I'm talking about the occult?! ROFL!!

I mean, the latter is frankly SO much less... unusual... But it just proved, you know, that everybody's got their own little box.

And a lot of my experiences were just... I mean... a lot of stuff wrapped up, some was real specific to a 'genre' as I would call it now, some not, and often things overlapped, like that symbol I mentioned. And when I would talk with others, they would often relate very similar things -- stuff that falls into fey and paranormal or even classical but dramatic biblical religion for example -- and yet, in the ufology world, none of this stuff was real.

Another thing I said in the case study for my friend was that people got really upset when I talked about other stuff. It was like they thought I was somewhat validating their experience when I shared one apparently similar, because I seemed sane, in writing anyway, but then I'd go talking about something they had no respect for and thought had to be some 'big fat lie' and they felt it destroyed my credibility and by proxy, now, theirs too.

It didn't help that I was always very strong on the idea we are 'involved' in this stuff and it's not necessarily always physical (often it's both, via bilocation and via astral which has "overlap") and most people I met if necessary would probably hallucinate a ufo beginning to their experience just to make it seem legit, because they didn't want to tell someone it happened in their sleep because our culture totally invalidates that, and yet that's where much of it's going on, yet everyone else would say "Just a dream!" and throw tomatoes, right. So that made them even more strenuously defend the ufology model because all the 'other stuff' seemed to dent its credibility.

I could say, "So I was talking to this Abramelin entity" -- because, well, he was there, I mean it's not like I called him on purpose or anything, but I had just been reading a book about it earlier, it's true, and he was friendly enough -- and everyone seemed to think that either this was hallucinatingly insane, or -- as religious people often told me -- I had already lost my soul to the dark side (oh! That's where that giant handbasket came from! bucket seats and the smell of new car, too!) -- or, they would assume on something that really... seriously... ceremonial magick is yoga and drama, with music if you're creative and sex if you're especially dedicated (not me, to that extent, though I might be now if I had a mate), but it's not nearly as ooh-aaah-oh-my-god-babalon-working as all the wide-eyes would like to think. I can do anything I want in full beta state (though it won't be as fun in that state as if I'm more in theta, of course) while standing in line at the bank -- ritual is not necessary, it is just a nice way to hang out with friends that doesn't involve watching TV or stealing hubcaps.

(continued...)



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