Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

You come across as a skeptic, but not a mindless and cruel debunker... and that's fine... I'm a skeptic too.. I don't believe in UFOs or the flawed human concept of 'god'.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Agreed.

Now strange stuff in the sky? sure. Amazing laws of nature that include a psychoactive component? Sure. But humans don't understand either one very well, and much more research is required.

There are without a doubt strange things in the sky, and that strange stuff displaying a psychoactive component as well, absolutely. I don't know how we do much more meaningful research on it though. We collect data, but Vallee has already done more of that work than I can imagine would need to be done to start getting some kind of meaningful analysis but I have yet to hear about that.

It feels on a gut level that we should be able to get closer to it, close enough to peer through, but I just think that if it were possible to get a look at anything beyond smoke and mirrors we'd have seen it by now.

a reply to: wtbengineer

1/2 of the work needs to be SUBJECTIVE;
incredibly subjective. ..that's why I highly
dislike the crusade against 'subjective'.

Now controls like with Remote Viewing
would help. Focusing on what bits of
objectivity are possible would help.

But 'reality' itself seems emergent and
psychoactive. "Hard science" itself will
be discovered to be subjective at some
point IMHO.

I do think there is a way forward...but
it will take time...

Kev

a reply to: wtbengineer

It might be possible to 'create a new
'skinwalker ranch' and to do it double
blind...either with actual land or in the
lab (probably both) but if the Lawrence
Livermore Lab incident is actually true
(and I think it's likely not BS) then
finding the scientists and 'shaman'
might be difficult.

Everyone would have to follow
exhaustive protocols for years
beforehand, and I'm not aware
of any organization that would
fund such an experiment again.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
Okay, I could google "Lawrence Livermore Lab incident", but if you have a link - I'd rather get the 'story' from a source that someone I trust considers trustworthy...

originally posted by: wtbengineer


There are without a doubt strange things in the sky, and that strange stuff displaying a psychoactive component as well, absolutely. I don't know how we do much more meaningful research on it though. We collect data, but Vallee has already done more of that work than I can imagine would need to be done to start getting some kind of meaningful analysis but I have yet to hear about that.

It feels on a gut level that we should be able to get closer to it, close enough to peer through, but I just think that if it were possible to get a look at anything beyond smoke and mirrors we'd have seen it by now.

I think we need to turn the focus toward the people seeing these "things' and having these strange experiences. Even if there is something "out there", it's somehow connected to us. I don't think it's smoke and mirrors in that it doesn't exist in any sense. I think it's smoke and mirrors in the sense that it's trickster phenomena. We've been talking about trickster phenomena for awhile. Have you gotten a handle on that which we mean by it? What's your sense about it?

originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
Okay, I could google "Lawrence Livermore Lab incident", but if you have a link - I'd rather get the 'story' from a source that someone I trust considers trustworthy...

It's in one of Vallee's many books....
I'd have to search for it....If I had to
guess I'd say Forbidden Science
Volume 2. Ah. it's mentioned there
on page 292 briefly. I think there is
a longer account elsewhere.

Kev

I think you're right Tangerine, about turning "the focus toward the people" who see 'things' ...stop looking at the 'trickster' and start looking at the people it likes to trick.

I mean try to find the commonalities in people who have had 'experiences', particularly look for commonalities in people who have had similar 'types' of experiences...

...because even though the phenomena can manifest in vastly different ways, there are also some overlaps where people who have no 'connection' to each other have similar types of experiences at different times and places from each other, so if you could figure out commonalities in those people, it would say something about the trickster -

- i.e. 'Who' does it like to 'mess with'? What 'draws' it to certain people? Why do some people experience phenomena beginning in childhood? Does it 'decide' on particular times, places, people or is it totally random?

Then too...Why are some people totally 'immune' from it's effects? Are there people the trickster has tried to trick, but couldn't? Are there people it simply has no interest in?

Of course, there's probably no way to find answers to those questions, but sometimes if you just keep throwing questions 'out there', you hit on a question that can be answered, but which no one ever thought to ask before...

Anyway, this post makes a good case for the value of people sharing their experiences in threads like this.

a reply to: lostgirl

We are part of a larger life --- I think that in general the "Trickster"
isn't trying to "Trick us" --- in a mean way anyway.. we are toddlers
trying to play with the big boys.. and we are easily confused and
often 'outsmart ourselves'.

But yah, some aspects of the 'Trickster' are malevolent.. and mean..
mostly the parts that hang out with humans too much.. they get it
from us.

Not only are we not asking the right questions, but these are
(I know a lot of people would disagree, but I don't mind when
others are wrong) "sentient laws of nature" and if we treat
"them" like "crap" or like "toddlers" we can't expect a good result..

As a matter of fact, the best way to get 'the Trickster" to do
something 'for us' is to determine what the 'Trickster' might
want --- and that's easier than you might think.

The 'Trickster' which in part is fed by and connected to our
unconscious minds likes to have fun and a good time.. so
the 'same old tired crap' like trying to get the 'Trickster' to
guess ZENER ESP cards drives 'IT' crazy with boredom..

I know that the 'Trickster' is tired of religion and spirituality..
it's switched to 'UFOs' now.. even 'IT' can't stand any more
of this lame religion crap..

So a 'deep dive' into 'novelty' would produce far better effects.

MHO.

Kev

UFOlogy is becoming a religion. At least the literalists are turning it into a religion.

originally posted by: Tangerine
UFOlogy is becoming a religion. At least the literalists are turning it into a religion.

Definitely.

But it's a NEW type of religion; and it's nailed to the hip with
the confusion over black aircraft projects and all sorts of
yummy stuff. It's much more enjoyable than the prior
variants.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: Tangerine
UFOlogy is becoming a religion. At least the literalists are turning it into a religion.

Definitely.

But it's a NEW type of religion; and it's nailed to the hip with
the confusion over black aircraft projects and all sorts of
yummy stuff. It's much more enjoyable than the prior
variants.

No doubt but I'm waiting for non-believers to be accused of being agents of the Reptoids (ala Satan). It is interesting to watch the development of a new religion.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

So a 'deep dive' into 'novelty' would produce far better effects.
Kev

So then, why doesn't it do something 'new'?

Does it need humans to 'make the first move' or something?

If an individual human took a "deep dive into novelty", would the trickster be attracted to that person and start manifesting along the lines of said 'novelty'?

- Actually I can tell you that in one particular case at least (one I'm personally familiar with), the answer to the third question is 'no'...

1/2 of the work needs to be SUBJECTIVE;
incredibly subjective. ..that's why I highly
dislike the crusade against 'subjective'.

I don't disagree with you, but that is what makes it so hard to study.

Everyone would have to follow exhaustive protocols for years
beforehand, and I'm not aware
of any organization that would
fund such an experiment again.

I just don't see that happening.

a reply to: Tangerine

I think we need to turn the focus toward the people seeing these "things' and having these strange experiences. Even if there is something "out there", it's somehow connected to us. I don't think it's smoke and mirrors in that it doesn't exist in any sense. I think it's smoke and mirrors in the sense that it's trickster phenomena. We've been talking about trickster phenomena for awhile. Have you gotten a handle on that which we mean by it? What's your sense about it?

When I said smoke and mirrors I didn't mean to imply that I don't believe something 'out there' exists. In fact, I'm probably one of the most ardent believers in that something being completely independent of us at least in the sense that it exists whether or not we believe it and maybe whether or not we exist. But I also feel that we are so intertwined with it that there is no existence for us without it.

originally posted by: lostgirl

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

So a 'deep dive' into 'novelty' would produce far better effects.
Kev

So then, why doesn't it do something 'new'?

Does it need humans to 'make the first move' or something?

If an individual human took a "deep dive into novelty", would the trickster be attracted to that person and start manifesting along the lines of said 'novelty'?

- Actually I can tell you that in one particular case at least (one I'm personally familiar with), the answer to the third question is 'no'...

From what I've seen the 'Trickster' at the level we can normally
access has no 'will' of it's own in the way we understand it. In
many ways 'IT' lives vicariously through us.

Now from I've also seen, the 'Trickster' is prone to being 'possessed'
just as 'IT' possesses.

I've been watching various currents (cases of the 'Trickster' being
possessed by different things).

One is humans.

Another seems to be this type of 'man in black' - the ones which
have almond eyes. They seem to be an independent form of life
catching a ride on 'our' 'local' 'Trickster'.

Life feeds on life. Life is in symbiosis with life. Life coils into
loops with life, that then amplifies life and feeds back into
life.

A good case of that is when the human electrical system interacts
with UAP's, Earthlights, etc. In the most extreme cases certain
individuals then strongly feeds back into the UAPs/Earthlights,
which then feed back into humans, etc. etc. Just one cranky
old shaman in an area might be enough to create a new
'skinwalker ranch' from almost 'nothing'.

It's hard to describe. And i don't claim to fully understand it.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

Another seems to be this type of 'man in black' - the ones which
have almond eyes. They seem to be an independent form of life
catching a ride on 'our' 'local' 'Trickster'.
Kev

What do you mean, "an independent form of life"?

originally posted by: lostgirl

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

Another seems to be this type of 'man in black' - the ones which
have almond eyes. They seem to be an independent form of life
catching a ride on 'our' 'local' 'Trickster'.
Kev

What do you mean, "an independent form of life"?

Well it's close to IMPOSSIBLE to separate out 'Trickster delusion'
from 'reality' (I'm far from certain there is any point in using the
word 'reality').

But I'm coming to believe, that there is a 'real' life from, not too
different from humans, but maybe 300 years ahead of us, which
has learned to visit other worlds in a limited way, by catching
a ride on 'our local Trickster'.

It's just a theory. I could be wrong. But I'm strongly considering
the possibility.

Kev

a reply to: wtbengineer

I agree with your last sentence.

Kev

a reply to: wtbengineer

If someone was very reckless and created a new
'skinwalker ranch' under monitored conditions,
making life a living hell for thousands of people
for hundreds of years.. then maybe someone
would 'believe' enough to 'do it right'. But I
don't know anyone capable of doing that, who
would be that reckless.

Maybe a small sale test in the lab could be done..
but it would be rough.. you'd need a super duper
mana personality and the lab would have to be
setup with precision. And again, I don't know
anyone capable of doing that, who would be
that reckless.

Kev