Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

We don't even have a proper definition of
the control system unfortunately. Wouldn't
that be a great first step --- before trying to
poke it with a stick?

Kev

Well, yeah...but we have to work within our limitations. I think Vallee wants to poke it with a stick to prove that it exists. If it moves or growls or bites that's evidence that it exists.

Well why don't you help us out! It's your post.

What is YOUR definition of the 'Control Loop' ? What is 'It' controlling?
Which elements of 'reality' or 'society' or 'perception' does it seem
to be involved with?

In what way does the 'control loop' relate to the non-ETH?

Does 'It' seem to be organic? Inorganic? Living? Some sort of
'alien-ish' intelligence? Some sort of computer intelligence?
Or a vastly non-human type of mind that might not classify
as intelligence at all?

Does 'It' get it's intelligence by feeding off humans? Or does
it have it's own?

Can you ascertain ANY sort of pattern? What does it want?

Maybe more importantly --- what does it NOT want?

For example 'IT' doesn't seem to want to be analyzed or
defined by the rational mind.. but again, maybe that's
just an anthropomorphization on our part..

Maybe 'IT' is 'all us, all the time' and there is no funky
'IT-ness' involved with 'IT' at all. How could we ascertain
that one way or another?

We need to keep asking questions and 'circling the blurry target'
until it becomes at least a LITTLE more clear.

Once we know what 'IT' is like, at least somewhat, then we might
try to interact with 'IT' on an experimental basis in order to gain
further understanding.

I have an entire mythos/cosmos worldview based on this.. but
you don't seem to yet.. so maybe you can notice something
new that I've overlooked --- a fresh set of eyes..

Kev

> Kandinsky

The reason I mention them is to add evidence to your underlying point that the brain can create experiences as real, or more real than the standard experience of reality.
It's not too far a step to allow for the possibility that an infection could cause the brain to invent sensory experience to off-set the occurrence of different forms of overload.

Huh. Any experience that involves the chakras tends to come across as "realer than real." They seem to affect the nervous system in such a way that rather than a given sense, much of the rest of the nervous system is involved also, creating a 'depth' and 'visceral' experience 'all the way through' the body that far supercedes what a single-sense normally conveys to us.

A (forehead chakra) visual for example has an incredible degree of both texture and emotion in it, and a (throat chakra) audio for example has multiple dimensions like a 3D+ geometry in it, and much more we don't even have words for. Any color is for example, "blacker than black," and a taste or a smell will tell you the "the nature of a thing" as if you'd done a profile on its underlying character or original source.

Given these kinds of perceptions are able to be had at least on occasion by people still, and have been part of human study and experience since the dawn of time, I'm surprised they don't get a little more credit for 'potential' here.

I have never heard of the exploding head whatever. WTH.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

Now, people dont even have to experience a UAP first hand, all you have to do is watch 20 hours of the disclosure project and a few Ancient Aliens episodes to have a religious epiphany.

originally posted by: Tangerine
Are you serious? Can you explain that without going off-topic?

Sorry, I missed this. I was being a little silly but Bybyots got where I was going with this. But really people believe in all the lore without really needing to experience it first hand. I was a "believer" in the alien lore since I was a kid but never really hard core and hadn't really thought about it for years. About 5 or 6 years ago, I started obsessively watching UFO documentaries and buying UFO books. It struck me at one point that this was "real". It was quite surreal for me for a while... I mean to really believe that "aliens were coming here and abducting people". Its a strange realization. and I think that's what happens when you burry yourself into this stuff like this without considering anything else. Its a distortion of your "perception" in a way. Yes, I snapped out of it.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

We don't even have a proper definition of
the control system unfortunately. Wouldn't
that be a great first step --- before trying to
poke it with a stick?

Kev

Well, yeah...but we have to work within our limitations. I think Vallee wants to poke it with a stick to prove that it exists. If it moves or growls or bites that's evidence that it exists.

Well why don't you help us out! It's your post.

What is YOUR definition of the 'Control Loop' ? What is 'It' controlling?
Which elements of 'reality' or 'society' or 'perception' does it seem
to be involved with?

In what way does the 'control loop' relate to the non-ETH?

Does 'It' seem to be organic? Inorganic? Living? Some sort of
'alien-ish' intelligence? Some sort of computer intelligence?
Or a vastly non-human type of mind that might not classify
as intelligence at all?

Does 'It' get it's intelligence by feeding off humans? Or does
it have it's own?

Can you ascertain ANY sort of pattern? What does it want?

Maybe more importantly --- what does it NOT want?

For example 'IT' doesn't seem to want to be analyzed or
defined by the rational mind.. but again, maybe that's
just an anthropomorphization on our part..

Maybe 'IT' is 'all us, all the time' and there is no funky
'IT-ness' involved with 'IT' at all. How could we ascertain
that one way or another?

We need to keep asking questions and 'circling the blurry target'
until it becomes at least a LITTLE more clear.

Once we know what 'IT' is like, at least somewhat, then we might
try to interact with 'IT' on an experimental basis in order to gain
further understanding.

I have an entire mythos/cosmos worldview based on this.. but
you don't seem to yet.. so maybe you can notice something
new that I've overlooked --- a fresh set of eyes..

Kev

I don't have a definition of the control loop nor am I even certain that it exists. My mythos/cosmos worldview is pretty amorphous. Experience has shown me that as soon as I fix on one it slips through my fingers like quicksilver. I can say that whatever it is doesn't seem to be organic. It does seem to be "alienish" but that doesn't say much because anything more than a rock or a chair seems alienish at times. Come to think of it, I've had an experience with a rock (actually the rock face of a mountain) that seemed pretty alienish. It does seem to be intelligent but that may be a misperception. There may well be no "it" or It may well just be all of us. It's difficult enough to make sense of my own mind without making sense of the fresh hell that a collective unconscious could produce. The closest I've been able to come to making sense of these unbounded phenomena is to think of it in terms of the Trickster, which I realize is anthropomorphizing, and myself as having a liminal personality. That, at least, offers a window into the mind******* aspect.

I had a stretch of time when I experienced a panoply of unbounded phenomena that ranged from spectacular flying objects and bouncing globes of light on the ground in the desert (also witnessed by another person) when I was a night hiker to encounters with out-of-place people (also witnessed by two other people); poltergeist-like phenomena (also witnessed by two other humans and a dog); voices in my yard (heard by the neighbors, too, who called the cops); nightly displays of tiny Christmas-tree type lights in my yard (scared the heck out of an Isleta Pueblo friend--by that point I was pretty jaded); well-timed ringing phones and no one on the other end (witnessed by a partner who was convinced I was having an affair); all mixed-in with being under surveillance by what sure seemed to be "real" people (witnessed on numerous occasions by a friend and confirmed by a former Navy Seal friend who set up counter surveillance) and more. I coped with the woo-woo stuff by categorizing it as woo-woo stuff. The surveillance stuff almost sent me around the bend. My sanity was saved by calling in my former Navy Seal friend who confirmed that my home was actually being surveilled. Imagine being glad to have that confirmed! Never found out why.

Now that some time has passed between that orgy of bizarreness and the present day, I find myself in a state of mind where I can hopefully be a bit rational (ha!) and explore possible explanations. I have no real hope that definitive explanations will emerge.

That said, I don't see any harm in the experiment Vallee proposes (famous last words). On the other hand, I don't know how one would be able to make sense of the results.

a reply to: Tangerine

I had a stretch of time when I experienced a panoply of unbounded phenomena that ranged from spectacular flying objects and bouncing globes of light on the ground in the desert

The strange events that I experienced and briefly described to you also occurred in the desert. Not sure whether its worth noting that the specific location was right near the VATT on Mt. Graham.

originally posted by: Ashirah
a reply to: Tangerine

I had a stretch of time when I experienced a panoply of unbounded phenomena that ranged from spectacular flying objects and bouncing globes of light on the ground in the desert

The strange events that I experienced and briefly described to you also occurred in the desert. Not sure whether its worth noting that the specific location was right near the VATT on Mt. Graham.

VATT? Sorry, I don't know where Mt. Graham is located. Yeah, the desert is a seriously weird place.

a reply to: Tangerine

VATT - Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope

Mt. Graham is located in southeastern AZ. So is it the desert that's weird or us? : P

a reply to: Tangerine

This is just a theory, (not sure if someone mentioned this already). UFO's could be time travellers, they are US, from the future. Some agency in the future takes customers on trips to the past for pleasure or learning purposes. However, they can't interact with us, because it could alter and change the future.

I still believe its extraterrestrials though :p

originally posted by: Ashirah
a reply to: Tangerine

VATT - Vatican Advanced Technology Telescope

Mt. Graham is located in southeastern AZ. So is it the desert that's weird or us? : P

Both, I'm sure. How might the VATT be connected to the weirdness?

a reply to: Ashirah

Definitely the desert is weird (that doesn't mean "we" aren't but...).

If you've ever spent more than one night out in it, and I don't mean a Las Vegas or Scottsdale hotel suite, I mean under the stars, no tent, no nothing, you'll know what I mean.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: Ashirah

Definitely the desert is weird (that doesn't mean "we" aren't but...).

If you've ever spent more than one night out in it, and I don't mean a Las Vegas or Scottsdale hotel suite, I mean under the stars, no tent, no nothing, you'll know what I mean.

Yeah. There's nothing someone who's spent time on the desert (especially at night) could tell me happened that I wouldn't believe. Care to share your experiences in the desert?

a reply to: Tangerine

That's why I wasn't sure it was even worth mentioning, this being a non-ET thread. The area in question is fairly remote with little light pollution at night (both of my personal incidents took place at night), the skies are incredibly clear; these are some reasons why the funders of the VATT chose this place in particular. I think it would make some sense to see something out of the ordinary like a UFO in such a location given those facts, if one assumes that the object were a physical flying object rather than non-physical in nature. That's all

originally posted by: Ashirah
a reply to: Tangerine

That's why I wasn't sure it was even worth mentioning, this being a non-ET thread. The area in question is fairly remote with little light pollution at night (both of my personal incidents took place at night), the skies are incredibly clear; these are some reasons why the funders of the VATT chose this place in particular. I think it would make some sense to see something out of the ordinary like a UFO in such a location given those facts, if one assumes that the object were a physical flying object rather than non-physical in nature. That's all

I don't know that it would matter whether it's entirely physical or only appears to be. It would be easier to see in real darkness and unpolluted (by light or other) skies. What did you see/experience? Day? Night?

a reply to: Tangerine

Have most of the anomalous events happened in the same area,
or do 'they fallow you around wherever you go when they are
happening'?

Do you have much in the way of earthquake faults in these
area(s)?

When did you get your liminal personality type? What caused
it to form?

Have you ever messed around with mystical / psychic practices
or the like?

Have you ever had a prickly, slightly biting feeling on the surface
of your skin, or a feeling of poorly defined rage around you?

--

FYI, contrary to popular belief in some perhaps.. I've not had very
many big unusual events in my life - 2 big ones really over 53
years.. and a lot of yoga/shamanic side effects, but nothing
particularly earth-shaking. I certainly do not seek such events,
but would like to understand them better.

Kev

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

If you 'snapped out of it' -- what are you doing in the UFO
forum so much? Just curious.

BTW, for the record, I have ZERO belief in 'UFOs'. From what
I can tell, every single case has been staged, disinfo or a
UAP / paranormal event. It's like Valee says repeatedly -
'someone' / 'something' BADLY BADLY BADLY wants us to
believe in little green men from the stars who obsessively
anally probe us and make no sense at all.

Yes, the 'government' has much to gain from this sort of
thing, and have pretty much been caught red handed
doing it from time to time; but there's more to this
than that.. there is genuine high strangeness in the
world too --- and it's 'that' which has fascinated me since
I was 5 and first exposed to it.

Kev

a reply to: Tangerine

Yep. That's one of the very clever 'Trickster' side effects.
The ability to emulate solid matter / environmental effects
that you would SWEAR on your mothers grave were real
physical nuts and bolts craft type effects --- only they
are apparently not.

My own major, close and undeniable 'UFO' sighting
was as they say 'realer than real' according to my
senses. But after a lot of analysis it most likely
wasn't 'physical' in any mundane sense at all.

But even so, I have little doubt it could have left
a 20 foot deep trench any time it wanted to.

The physical/not-physical dichotomy is quite
interesting.

Kev

a reply to: RedCairo

Some interesting comments about 'chakras' there. I can understand
exactly why you say what you do about 'them'. I'm using single quotes
there, as in my experience, most people confuse internal 'tulpa images
of chakras' with the actual 'thing' which lives inside their body and is
responsible for 'chakra-like functionality'. This is a delusional guardian
of the gates.

Just curious -- most shaman and sensitive people I know are familiar
with what I call the 'black sludge entity' which lives just below the
naval. It's nearly impossible to remove --- even 'normals' seem to
have them. Have you anything to say about this, or do you disagree
that it exists?

So as to not be accused of being 'off topic', I'd say that this 'nasty'
'black sludge critter' is associated with a lot of the nastier
'UFO' and 'paranormal' type experiences people have.

Kev

a reply to: Tangerine

Ahh ... Not sure I'm quite ready to divulge all of that but I guess I'll take the plunge. Call it stage fright or simply pure cowardice, either way I hope you can appreciate the effort!

Along with others, I witnessed a craft hovering in the sky, close enough that all of us that did see could make out details such as what may have potentially been panelling. The thing that makes me feel that what we encountered was not necessarily a physical object was the way it seemed to vanish out of nowhere as opposed to fly off or move in any discernible way. It appeared to blink in and out of existence at least 3 times and didn't emit anything in the way of audible noise. The other thing is harder to explain and could be passed off as a dream, although I don't feel like it was a dream. As I previously mentioned, these things both happened at night.

Like you, I've also experienced other strange phenomena aside from UFO, and again in the presence of others. My mother has been present at many of these events and has her own experiences, which kind of made me contemplate an idea that I can't fully construct involving these incidents and one's biological parents or maybe even other relatives. Were any of your blood relations accompanying you during your weird occurrences?

a reply to: Ashirah

So your mother has a liminal personality of sorts?

And pardon me for asking this, I don't mean to be rude;
but was she rather 'grasping' while you were growing up..
like she wanted to swallow you whole.. wanted to force
meld her psyche to your body and emotions?

Crazy to ask, I know.

Asking for science so to speak.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear



Actually, not at all. If anything, she was more self involved and didn't offer much in the way of any kind of attention, really. Do you think she was, for lack of a better term, projecting these experiences onto me? The two experiences I've related in this thread also occurred during my childhood - Think 8 to 10 years old.