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Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

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posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 06:26 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth

There is no point in arguing about 50
years of another person's life if you
don't even know them.

There is also no use arguing about
subjective concepts like 99% of
everything we discuss on ATS
but that doesn't stop the endless
arguing, posturing, debunking
and fearful flaming by one dot.

I know that people go frantic and
rabid when discussing the so-called
'soul or spirit'. Nearly everyone wants
one, except maybe Buddhists who
might consider these CONCEPTS
the very delusion which keep them
trapped in ignorance.

I paid for my (subjective) kniwledge
and experience, some of which
produced physically verifiable
results, with an all-consuming
sacrifice - so I am personally
satisfied within myself of my
data points and anslysis.

I could really care less what other
people believe about this matter;
other than the fact that nearly
everyone alive who worries
about defining such things
for themselves suffers greatly
due to their obsession, at least
that is my observation, and the
observation of a lot of dilligent
'psychonauts'.

Actually the 'delusion' about the
'soul' is one of the Tricksters
finest pieces of work; and the
Trickster is joined at the hip of
the 'UFO conundrum'.

'IMHO'

Kev




posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 06:53 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

In 'Invisible College' he states that he wanted
to try to 'feed back towards the source' of
the control loop as an experiment.

I'm not aware of what result he got, but it
seems he got some kind of result. But it
might have been anecdotal. I don't think
it was a true 'double blind test' - but frankly
I don't know.

I've done my own anecdotal tests.

Kev


Could you talk a bit about your tests?



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 06:58 PM
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originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

One interesting data point for ANY theory
about UFOs is to be found in Appendix
one of Vallee's book "Revelations".

It's a chart of when 'UFO' sightings are
reported (using his extensive DB).

Sightings spike up hard after 8 PM and
spike down hard around 6 AM.

Now there are obvious mundane
inferences one might make about
the sun, people being at work and
inside, etc.

But one thing that is of note to me
is that these findings are global and
not just for the USA or NATO
countries.

So this somewhat kicks the US
Black ops theory in the teeth.

What else may be surmised
I leave open for discussion.



I don't recall whether it was Vallee or someone else (Keel?) who noted that strange phenomena experiences peak on Wednesday and Saturday nights and, especially, on June 24. Saturday night might be explainable by the fact that people are out and about or at least awake but Wednesday and June 24? Does anyone recall the source of these claims?



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 08:22 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

I don't recall whether it was Vallee or someone else (Keel?) who noted that strange phenomena experiences peak on Wednesday and Saturday nights and, especially, on June 24. Saturday night might be explainable by the fact that people are out and about or at least awake but Wednesday and June 24? Does anyone recall the source of these claims?

Wednesday night and June 24th? That is odd. Definitely want to track down that source.

Kandinsky had some info, if I remember, about sightings peaking around 11PM. That makes sense to me since our bodies are prepping for sleep. Circadian rhythms are something to pay attention to.

edit on 23-2-2015 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Tangerine

I don't recall whether it was Vallee or someone else (Keel?) who noted that strange phenomena experiences peak on Wednesday and Saturday nights and, especially, on June 24. Saturday night might be explainable by the fact that people are out and about or at least awake but Wednesday and June 24? Does anyone recall the source of these claims?

Wednesday night and June 24th? That is odd. Definitely want to track down that source.



Yes, it's very odd. That probably explains why I remembered it. Now that I think of it, the more likely source was Keel.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 09:13 PM
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NM
edit on 23-2-2015 by Rocker2013 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 09:16 PM
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edit on 23-2-2015 by Tangerine because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

In 'Invisible College' he states that he wanted
to try to 'feed back towards the source' of
the control loop as an experiment.

I'm not aware of what result he got, but it
seems he got some kind of result. But it
might have been anecdotal. I don't think
it was a true 'double blind test' - but frankly
I don't know.

I've done my own anecdotal tests.

Kev


Could you talk a bit about your tests?


Well from my perspective the Trickster consciousness
has been living full-time in my body for many years;

on an average of once a week, it tries to 'snow job me'
on some wild venture or experiment or 'commitment
to it' that it wants me to make. It's the last one that
sure fire gets my attention.

It keeps going on about how i promised to 'love it forever'
when i made my vow of the Bodhisattva.

It keeps playing the scene from "what dreams may come"
and asks me to spend eternity in hell loving it, to prove
my love.

These are just a FEW of the weekly appeals I've gotten
since I was a child. None of them in words.. not once..
it's feelings and images.

So sometimes I 'play ball' for a while, and see if anything
changes in the world, or in my life, or in the life of someone
around me.

Something nearly always happens; but I feel a little 'dirty'
each time I give in, even as an experiment.

In the past the following things happened when I 'gave in':

1) I started hearing prayers from Christians.
2) I was summoned as a Djinn and some Muslim mystics
tried to stuff me into a bottle. I got an email forwarded
to me from them, telling me that they changed their mind.
3) I got an email from the '5th Buddha of the future' out of
nowhere, and he asked for my support.
4) etc
5) etc

There have been some physical events too.. but I'd rather
not go into them.

Now you can see that this is hardly 'scientific'.

Frankly I'd like to come up with a truly scientific test,
but you know, the 'Trickster' will see me a mile away
(lives in my body for gawd's sake) and won't play along.

That's the thing.. if you COULD capture the Trickster,
then you'd stop chasing it. And it want's to be chased
after.. as it wants to be LOVED.. but NEVER 'possessed'.

In the Kundalini Yoga tradition, "Shakti Kundalini" must
be 'worshiped as a woman' and it is said that no man
may possess her or look beneath her veil.

The only man 'who may know her' must submit to her
will and not put conditions on her (but not necessarily
obey her) if you obey her whims you go insane and die.

Anyway.. not the scientific feedback you wanted..

But even so, the point is that only "one shot tests"
have any chance of working. So if you 'wanted to catch Her'
you'd have to do a large variety of one-shot tests that
'tickled her fancy' and then maybe like in quantum
mechanics you could get 'close' without catching her.

But if you look inside the box, the cat is either dead
or alive, and the magic goes away (schrodinger's cat).

Really 'the Trickster' and 'quantum indeterminacy'
seem joined at the hip. I'm not certain either will
be truly understood, until BOTH are understood.

;-)

Kev



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: Tangerine

I think it's from Keel's Operation Trojan Horse,
but I could be wrong.

Wednesday is one of the days.. and if I recall
right the 24th of any month.

How 'Trickster-ish'. It's a pattern that seems to
NOT be a pattern. Could drive one mad trying
to figure that one out.

Kev



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:15 PM
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a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

Thank you for that fascinating and insightful relation of your experience. Though I'm not sure we should 'banish and thwart any and every attempt they try to make'. If we're ever going to move the global conversation beyond "but there's not physical solid proof right in front of us" then maybe we should throw open the gates and let come what may.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: CirqueDeTruth

That was a great response!
It dripped with sincerity and experience.

Your point about the 'wall coming down' really reminds me
of my favorite story ever! :

"THE PRINCE AND THE MAGICIAN
from The Magus by John Fowles

Once upon a time there was a young prince, who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, he did not believe in God. His father, the king, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father's domaines, and no sign of God, the young prince believed his father.

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace. He came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

"Are those real islands?" asked the young prince.

"Of course they are real islands," said the man in evening dress.

"And those strange and troubling creatures?"

"They are all genuine and authentic princesses."

"Then God also must exist!" cried the prince.

"I am God," replied the man in full evening dress, with a bow.

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.

"So you are back," said his father, the king.

"I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God," said the prince reproachfully.

The king was unmoved. "Neither real islands, nor real princesses, nor a real God, exist."

"I saw them!"

"Tell me how God was dressed."

"God was in full evening dress."

"Were the sleeves of his coat rolled back?"

The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled. "That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived."

At this, the prince returned to the next land, and went to the same shore, where once again he came upon the man in full evening dress. "My father the king has told me who you are," said the young prince indignantly. "You deceived me last time, but not again. Now I know that those are not real islands and real princesses, because you are a magician."

The man on the shore smiled. "It is you who are deceived, my boy. In your father's kingdom there are many islands and many princesses. But you are under your father’s spell, so you cannot see them."

The prince returned pensively home. When he saw his father, he looked him in the eyes. "Father, is it true that you are not a real king, but only a magician?"

The king smiled, and rolled back his sleeves. "Yes, my son, I am only a magician."

"Then the man on the shore was God."

"The man on the shore was another magician."

"I must know the real truth, the truth beyond magic."

"There is no truth beyond magic," said the king.

The prince was full of sadness. He said, "I will kill myself."

The king by magic caused death to appear. Death stood in the door and beckoned to the prince. The prince shuddered. He remembered the beautiful but unreal islands and the unreal but beautiful princesses "Very well," he said. "I can bear it."

"You see, my son," said the king, "you too now begin to be a magician." "

Thanks for your wonderful contribution. I'm sorry I missed it until now.

Kev



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 10:50 PM
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originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Xtrozero

The fact that they most often behave in a manner that no human made craft ever could and of powers far beyond any capacity of humanity.

I know planes and technology and I have experienced UFO, I am intelligent, sane and rational, I use logic and I am certain that at least a percentage of real UFO are the works of non humans.


You assume they are crafts and that is what leads you to something not human. We see light or small metallic (looking) objects. Your speculation is they are alien without ever knowing if aliens are actually real or even if they are some kind of craft in the first place. I could say they are angels and be as correct.


edit on 23-2-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: Kandinsky


Parasitology could be seen as off-topic in the thread.

I think it's on topic. We're discussing possible origins of the UFO phenomenon, aren't we?

Parasites come in many guises. In a sense all living things are parasites, feeding off sources of energy, ultimately off the Sun. If microbes and flukes are not to some people's taste, they might want to consider that folklore, at least, admits the existence of nonphysical parasites: vampires, succubi and the like. Maybe the cause of the UFO phenomenon is a parasite like that... and UFO believers are the hag-ridden souls on whom they feed.


Wouldn't it be a fine day to find evidence of parasites in the graves of Cambodia, Rwanda and other 20th Century genocides?

Indeed it would. A wonderful thought.


If we throw a spanner in the works, parasitology could undermine our collective security in the ability to be rational.

Never put much confidence in it myself.



posted on Feb, 23 2015 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: theabsolutetruth


Blaming a specific phenomena and barring all others on a parasite seems rather ridiculous, not that it is your theory but in response to your comment.

Since I'm the one who brought up the possibility, why not address your comments to me?

Why does the hypothesis that parasites manipulate human behaviour seem ridiculous to you? They do so in other animals, and there is plenty of research suggesting strongly that the do so in humans too. Google 'parasite infestation mental illness' and see how many scholarly papers turn up on the first couple of pages of your search results.

Or do you think it ridiculous that parasites can make us see lights in the sky, or experience visitations by alien beings? Why? People infected with the malaria parasite, as I'm sure you know, often experience hallucinations. Eating parasite-infected grain can also cause them, as you point out yourself. Hallucinations are always interpreted culturally by the sufferer, so someone interested in UFOs could well have UFO hallucinations. I won't go over all my previous arguments again, but until you've read my last few posts I don't think you should dismiss the parasite hypothesis as ridiculous.


Shared or mass sightings /experiences suggest something other than a parasite.

Why is that, when, as you say yourself,


The ergot mould on rye... caused mass hysteria

Does the idea of a nonphysical explanation for your UFO experiences make you uncomfortable?


edit on 24/2/15 by Astyanax because: of typos.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: Tangerine

Wednesday is the middle of the week. June 24 is around the time of the summer solstice, the mid-point of the year.

Suggests that UFOs are a western cultural phenomenon.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 12:39 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Tangerine

Wednesday is the middle of the week. June 24 is around the time of the summer solstice, the mid-point of the year.

Suggests that UFOs are a western cultural phenomenon.


I think the pattern is viewed globally.

But of course we'd have to verify that.

Kev



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:14 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

June 24th is St. John's day. In many places of the world (mainly Christian) people go outdoors starting St. John's Eve and perform all kind of rituals and celebrations, many involving bonfires.

So: 1) Many people oudoors, and, 2) bonfires



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:23 AM
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originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: Agnost
a reply to: Tangerine

Regarding your first two questions, I know of no scientific studies that support these claims. That's not to say that they don't exist but I don't know about them.

I believe Vallee has attempted or is attempting to test his hypothesis that such a control system exists but I don't think the results are in. Or perhaps I'm misremembering and he suggested a way in which it can be done. Does anyone recall? Vallee is very careful to distinguish between hypotheses and claims of fact.


A pity, because these studies should be quite straightforward to carry out and I think they are highly relevant to the thread.

Regarding Vallée: if he tried, I don't think the result was positive, because certainly here at ats somebody would have heard about it. But a negative result is also a result. And I think Vallée has moved on, because lately it's all about data-basing and data-mining.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax



But the flash is also a signal to birds in the air above the stream: a signal that says 'here's dinner!' See how it works?


And the flash doesn't just mean dinner. Your post reveals an overarching theme of biosemiotics. Usualy it's food and sex, but other types of information are exchanged, and with human animals we have symbol systems to express what is experienced through the senses.

A common theme found in UAP stories is one of them having changed the lives in some way of those that have experienced them. It changes that person's script in some way.

Maybe the UAPs are the terminals on some network that carries information like that?


edit on 24-2-2015 by Bybyots because: . : .



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 04:55 AM
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a reply to: Bybyots

True, we're the one's who shot the boss, took him down and took his badge off.






edit on Kam22854vAmerica/ChicagoTuesday2428 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



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