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Running the "Gun Violence" Numbers

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posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 12:36 PM
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Just read a pretty interesting article on thetruthaboutguns.com.

This article breaks down the leading causes of death in the US. If you never looked at the numbers, and based your perception on the media and what some people on ATS (typically not Americans, people who live in countries where gun ownership is severely restricted) you would think we have a crisis of epidemic proportions regarding gun violence. Blood is running in the streets, children are dying every few moments at the hands of a crazed gunman (who, by the way, would not commit crimes if there were no firearms).

This article shows that only 1.2% of deaths in the US are caused by firearms (read criminals WITH firearms). If you take the suicides out of the equation, gun deaths only account for 0.4% of deaths in the US in 2013.

In 2013 heart disease accounted for 23.5% of all deaths.

In the same year cancer accounted for 22.5% of all deaths.

It seems to me that if the goal is to save lives, we should be focusing on the major causes of death far more than we are focused on gun deaths.

My theory is that anti-gun people don't really care about saving lives - instead they campaign against a tool that they do not understand and fear. They get their opinions on the subject from their own government's spin on the issue, the media, and in both cases, a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

I'm curious what anti-gun folks will have to say about the numbers, and what justifications they have for being so vehemently against guns while allowing all of these other major contributors of death and injury to go unmentioned.

Source


edit on 19-2-2015 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 12:41 PM
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Just imagine if all the money funneled in to the anti-gun movement was diverted to cancer research, or stop-smoking campaigns, or alzheimers and diabetes research? If the goal is to save lives wouldn't this be a much more effective approach?



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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The anti gun people don't care about your numbers, they care about banning guns. Fear and religion have a lot in common like that.

It's not about what's right, it's about what's left.

I wonder how many pages of gun debate this thread will be by tomorrow this time.


Neat link, though. I love statistics.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus

S&F. Way to put it into perspective.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus

And let's not forget hammers, the scourge of humanity and the last obstacle to peaceful coexistence among men.

S&F




posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 12:52 PM
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I would love a breakdown of how many of those gun deaths are gang related. Meaning gangs fighting it out.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus
Comparing deaths from guns to overall deaths is a dumb comparison to start with. Most people die of old age so by your logic we divert all research into the search for eternal life.

As far as I , a UK person is concerned, I find it amusing and a little sad that you US folks "need to have a gun" why ? If you need gun to feel safe then that is a very very sad reflection on your society. Over here I do not fear walking on the streets. Now don't get me wrong there are some dodgy areas every country on this planet has them !!!! but you avoid these. Outside of those areas I do not feel the need to protect myself.

Why else do you need a gun? Some kind of macho pride thing, an exclamation like a tattoo , a "look at me I have this big gun" show.....whatever. All of these are quite frankly hilarious and sad.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Hoosierdaddy71

According to the CDC 80% of gun related homicides are gang related.
edit on 19-2-2015 by joemoe because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
I would love a breakdown of how many of those gun deaths are gang related. Meaning gangs fighting it out.


Most are gang related and most are black and Hispanic. What is even more funny is the drive to ban "assault weapons" like AR-15s. If you look at the FBI gun stats, less than 400 gun deaths occur each year from rifles of ANY KIND much less AR-15s and other scary looking semi-auto rifles. More people are beaten too death each year.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus

Gun control isn't about saving lives, it's about restricting access to fire arms. That's always been the case. People can paint it in any way they want, but at the end of the day, 98% of gun owners aren't' breaking the law, and the other 2% aren't buying guns legally, so they don't take part in the systems that are supposed to provide safety to the market.

Mind you I live in Canada, where there is strict gun control as far as small arms are concerned and I'm very happy with that. I never really understood American gun culture. I don't judge it or anything, but I don't understand it either.

I don't believe that you need to have that many guns in circulation, I don't really believe that everybody should own a gun, just cause they want to. Sure it's their right and all and I'd never advocate removing that right, I just find it strange.

I don't really think it's fair to compare Cancer death rates to ones where a gun was involved, seems a bit out of touch to me.

In that respect, I find the study to be a bit..what's the word...flaky due to the fact that they didn't study actual violent crimes or anything, just deaths overall in the US.

So yeah, I get your point and I agree with it. I just don't think the source is going to hold up to scrutiny from the anti gun crowd.

My two pesos.

~Tenth



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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Heart disease? Please, keep your heart disease. Hand over your guns.

God only knows if we just had more laws, gun crime would stop.

Children. Machine gun. Assault rifle. Death dealing instrument of the apocalypse.

I think I got most of the buzz words in there.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: yorkshirelad
a reply to: TinkerHaus
Comparing deaths from guns to overall deaths is a dumb comparison to start with. Most people die of old age so by your logic we divert all research into the search for eternal life.

As far as I , a UK person is concerned, I find it amusing and a little sad that you US folks "need to have a gun" why ? If you need gun to feel safe then that is a very very sad reflection on your society. Over here I do not fear walking on the streets. Now don't get me wrong there are some dodgy areas every country on this planet has them !!!! but you avoid these. Outside of those areas I do not feel the need to protect myself.

Why else do you need a gun? Some kind of macho pride thing, an exclamation like a tattoo , a "look at me I have this big gun" show.....whatever. All of these are quite frankly hilarious and sad.





I don't need a gun to feel safe.

I live in the third highest county for gun ownership in the US. We have very low crime.

I need a gun(s) because I enjoy it. I enjoy target shooting, hunting, and just working on firearms in general. It is in no way attached to my manhood.

It's sad that you are only capable of one view on why someone might choose to own firearms. I'm sorry guns are so scary to you.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

And most shoot em ups of innocent people in crowded areas are done by white guys if we are gonna bring race into this.

I guess you are not part of the leave race out of this crowd /shrug.

Great source OP, not biased or using basic sales techniques at all.

Oh and we have tried to do something about cancer and heart problems, but the same crowd told everyone the gov needs to stay out of our lives.
Funny how that part is always forgotten in pieces like this.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: TinkerHaus

Gun control isn't about saving lives, it's about restricting access to fire arms. That's always been the case. People can paint it in any way they want, but at the end of the day, 98% of gun owners aren't' breaking the law, and the other 2% aren't buying guns legally, so they don't take part in the systems that are supposed to provide safety to the market.

Mind you I live in Canada, where there is strict gun control as far as small arms are concerned and I'm very happy with that. I never really understood American gun culture. I don't judge it or anything, but I don't understand it either.

I don't believe that you need to have that many guns in circulation, I don't really believe that everybody should own a gun, just cause they want to. Sure it's their right and all and I'd never advocate removing that right, I just find it strange.

I don't really think it's fair to compare Cancer death rates to ones where a gun was involved, seems a bit out of touch to me.

In that respect, I find the study to be a bit..what's the word...flaky due to the fact that they didn't study actual violent crimes or anything, just deaths overall in the US.

So yeah, I get your point and I agree with it. I just don't think the source is going to hold up to scrutiny from the anti gun crowd.

My two pesos.

~Tenth


How is it out of touch? It's completely fair to make the comparison considering that 99.999% of anti-gun advocates take the position that they are trying to save lives.

Very apt comparison when directly addressing the reasons behind why people believe guns shouldn't be allowed in the general populace.

If the anti crowd wants to invalidate this argument, they must first admit that saving lives is not their goal. If we can get over that part, we can have an honest and open discussion about why they feel guns should be heavily restricted or outright banned.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus


How is it out of touch? It's completely fair to make the comparison considering that 99.999% of anti-gun advocates take the position that they are trying to save lives.


Yes, and their argument is also out of touch. So trying to argue a non issue with them or a moot point, is really just a + for their cause. Don't give them ammunition. They are obtuse enough as it is.

You can't actually compare all deaths in the US to a single gun statistic and then claim that guns aren't a problem. There are too many multiple victim shootings almost every other day. Again, problem, not with ownership, but with distribution and ease of access in the black market.

I keep saying it doesn't help that the DOJ runs guns to Mexico that end up coming back to the US anyway...

~Tenth



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:22 PM
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a reply to: TinkerHaus

Your logic is flawed though.

You are trying to say that those that want more regulated gun laws don't care about trying to get other things accomplished.
How are you making that leap?

People DO care about heart disease and people have been trying to do something about it but every time it comes up the commie nanny state discussion comes up!
Most gun advocates say they are about saving their lives and lives of others.
Are they up to your standards on what needs to be done?



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: tothetenthpower


I would say that the real problem is not the guns but the anti depressant medications these mass shooters are prescribed. Those meds are the real killers.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: yorkshirelad

What about hunters? Should they start bare-handing it so you don't question their manliness? What about people who can't "avoid those areas?" Just suck it up and trust in their fellow man, who isn't doing without?

Is a firearm an penile extension for some? Sure, just like one could argue the same about having a flashy car, boat, watch, phone, computer, lawn mower and on and on and on.

But frankly, people who automatically equate ownership of any of those items to the need for phallic validation have always struck me as a bit odd. I'll thank you to keep your private thoughts about my private areas private.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Edumakated

And most shoot em ups of innocent people in crowded areas are done by white guys if we are gonna bring race into this.

I guess you are not part of the leave race out of this crowd /shrug.

Great source OP, not biased or using basic sales techniques at all.

Oh and we have tried to do something about cancer and heart problems, but the same crowd told everyone the gov needs to stay out of our lives.
Funny how that part is always forgotten in pieces like this.


Let me guess, facts are racist? And before you pull the race card, please put it away because I am a black male. However, I was fortunate enough to get an education and learned how to think critically. You absolutely cannot discuss gun violence without also discussing who is actually committing it as it would be intellectually dishonest.

It very well may be true that white people are over represented in the gone bat shiz crazy mass shootings. I haven't seen the data. However, I do know that black people are very much represented in that segment too. The point though is that statistically, mass shootings in general are a very minute portion of actual gun deaths.

The vast majority of gun violence is committed by known thugs shooting other known thugs with illegally obtained handguns. This fact is indisputable. The vast majority of both victims and shooters are black and to a lesser extent Hispanic.

You cannot solve a problem if you aren't willing to look at it from all angles.



posted on Feb, 19 2015 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: yorkshirelad
a reply to: TinkerHaus
Comparing deaths from guns to overall deaths is a dumb comparison to start with. Most people die of old age so by your logic we divert all research into the search for eternal life.

As far as I , a UK person is concerned, I find it amusing and a little sad that you US folks "need to have a gun" why ? If you need gun to feel safe then that is a very very sad reflection on your society. Over here I do not fear walking on the streets. Now don't get me wrong there are some dodgy areas every country on this planet has them !!!! but you avoid these. Outside of those areas I do not feel the need to protect myself.

Why else do you need a gun? Some kind of macho pride thing, an exclamation like a tattoo , a "look at me I have this big gun" show.....whatever. All of these are quite frankly hilarious and sad.





We need to have a gun because the bad guys have guns. If our forefathers didn't have guns, we'd still be a British colony.

If you lived here, you might feel differently.
edit on 2/19/2015 by Answer because: (no reason given)




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