ISIS and you

a reply to: flammadraco

well i had a very unique experience. i lived in a place where nobody had the same religion as me but they were very religious as regards their own religion and they treated my family very poorly. thankfully, there were some bright spots that made it bearable. so that allowed me to see how it feels to have too many of a particular world view against another world view in one place, and made me thankful, when i got out of there (yes it was in the usa). so i understand why non religious people feel put upon about religious people. for the record, it's also true the other way around. everyone feels put upon. i don't know how the power brokers managed it, but it seems to be an universal constant. yet no one should want it to be an universal constant that almost everybody have the exact same world view, as the end result would be bad for those who didn't.

there's no easy solution.

a reply to: Gryphon66

okay, who have they killed so far? moderate muslims and christians. yazudis and zoroastrians are moderate muslims and christians. do we have evidence they are killing atheists?

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: flammadraco
You might be surprised. Her belief in Christ is not what mainstream Christianity holds as truth, but yes, she does believe in Christ. She just isn't your typical Christian in doctrine or theology. I've learned much from this lady, and respect her, whether or not we agree on everything.

"typical" as though there is a typical denomination. the only thing consistent across the board is that jesus is savior and the only thing worth appreciating and anyone who disagrees is under the influence of demons.

I understand what you're saying, and if you've seen my posts and threads, you know my stance on mainstream biblical Christianity, but you would do well to read some of her past threads and posts. imho.

undo is a very nice person from what i have read of his/her posts. some opinions may strike me as unfounded or poorly thought out, but we are all guilty of that from time to time.

im averse to worship on principle, as it is inherently an uneven relationship no matter who you worship. unless, of course, the person/thing you worship also worships you in return. which is just a silly merrygoround of infatuation and humility. "after you" "no, good sir, after you" "i insist" "well i insist as well" "shall we go together?" "nay, sirrah, i could never presume to proceed as your equal" "nor i yours" "then what are we to do?" "just go" "of course, but after you..." ad infinitum.

a reply to: undo

i just don't know what to think about isis, other than the gut wrenching feeling that christians should not be calling for a war against them. it just smacks of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Try not having ill thoughts even about evil.

Of coarse Christians shouldn't be calling out for war its not Christ like.

Damned if you don't only by internet jockeys, not God in my opinion. Damned if you do call for such by some people and if what is said in bible is to be believed then damned by God or Christ for making such a judgement.


I assume you have watched the movie the Mission, with Robert De Niro and and Jeremy Irons,

What Jeremy Irons character does at the end is Christ like in my opinion in a belief that death at the hand war like people only sets you free and into Gods paradise even thought it might be frightening as its happening one must follow what they believe or be deceived by the fear that strikes them, fear is the way of the devil is it not?

I need to take a break as well but ATS is an addiction to many of us and in some cases it causes a stress that can manifest into more issues for the readers that is becoming stressed, stress can have end up physical symptoms just as much as mental and psychological ones.

Take care and find the light of happiness else where when all you can see is darkness here, its good we have pets forum and a few other forums that have much lighter subjects than war, government conspiracies, apocalypse and what not.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

okay, if it is my view that non religious people are not on the chopping block of the power brokers of the world and i view that as you winning the game of staying alive. if evidence suggests that people of abrahamic faiths ARE on the chopping block of the power brokers of the world, then i lose as a person who has an abrahamic faith. for example,it was catholics who were killed in the ukraine by stalin. it was jews and christians, who were killed by hitler. it was muslims and christians who were killed in both wars against saddam. it was christians who were killed in the inquisition. now that could just be an artifact of the fact those religions made/make up a good proportion of the population, but if that's so, our laws in the usa sure don't reflect that. unless christians have all fallen off the deep end of the pool.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Gryphon66

okay, who have they killed so far? moderate muslims and christians. yazudis and zoroastrians are moderate muslims and christians. do we have evidence they are killing atheists?

What about the Japanese guys, what beliefs did they follow if any?

This is ISIS I assume you are asking about,

They are what a Christian should see as evil, they choose to destroy life, any life that goes against what they believe even a belief with the same name just not as extreme as theirs.

That is evil which I think doesn't really exist other than in the minds of man but its the closest thing to it If I had describe it.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

well i dunno about japanese guyS, but i do know the one japanese guy was a christian.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

okay, if it is my view that non religious people are not on the chopping block of the power brokers of the world and i view that as you winning the game of staying alive.

I am on the chopping block as much as you are. Not by virtue of my religious beliefs, but because I am a human American, who doesn't approve of ISIS and their mission.

it was muslims and christians who were killed in both wars against saddam. it was christians who were killed in the inquisition. now that could just be an artifact of the fact those religions made/make up a good proportion of the population,

ALL of your religious parsing is meaningless. Truth is, most people are religious. There were atheists, Hindus, Pagans and Buddhists killed in Iraq. But you discount them totally, because they don't fit into one of your boxes. PEOPLE were killed. AMERICANS were killed. Why must you parse out the Christians as some sort of specially-persecuted group?

but if that's so, our laws in the usa sure don't reflect that.

WHAT LAWS??? What are you talking about? Your weaseling around without saying anything. Since you refuse to answer that, I can only assume you mean something about gay people, though I can't figure how those laws affect you at all, or make you a "loser".

Please answer my specific questions.

The only rational point here in regard to the victims of ISIS is that they are of many nationalities, many religions, and likely some without religion, many ages, sexes, sizes and shapes of PEOPLE. Human beings.

To me, the only thing I can compare this obsession evinced in several of these type of threads to is if I were to say: "Yes, but ISIS is killing homosexuals!!! I saw a video where they threw gay guys out of windows!!! What about that huh?"

Other person: "Yes, but the number of homosexuals killed is far less than any others; ISIS has killed tens of thousands at this point."

Me: "You just don't care that they're killing gays and lesbians, do you? And more than that, preachers and pastors in the US have repeatedly called for gays and lesbians to be killed in THIS country! What about that, huh?"

Other person: "I didn't say any of that."

Me: "You're just trying to take away my beliefs. It doesn't matter what the facts are, I BELIEVE this is happening! What if this is just the start of a world-wide genocide against gay people?"

Other person: "Er, ... what???"

And so on, and so on.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

i discounted the other people because we are supposedly "a christian nation", according to statistics, and that would include hispanics , who are primarily catholic. so i assumed the bulk of the people (not all) would identify as christian, even if only on their hospital records.

the laws:
abortion, porn on television, porn mags sold in public stores, gay marriage, and all the other hot topic laws that are debated ad nauseum, which would not reflect the "norm" of mainstream christian teaching.

Come on people, don't you know people disagreeing that Christians are persecuted actually means they are being persecuted by your disagreement? That's what a persecution complex is, anything and everything reinforces the complex. It's a never ending circle. No matter what you say to the contrary, it feeds into their complex.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Come on people, don't you know people disagreeing that Christians are persecuted actually means they are being persecuted by your disagreement? That's what a persecution complex is, anything and everything reinforces the complex. It's a never ending circle. No matter what you say to the contrary, it feeds into their complex.

well then how am i ever going to be able to alert you in the event it does happen? you're already predisposing yourself to the idea that it's just not possible. try to explain that to the ukrainains who were killed by stalin, or the russian factory workers he killed, or the russian doctors he killed, and professors he killed. or the jews under hitler, who had been warning people, and nobody listened. or people pol pot killed.

you act like this # doesn't happen.

Actually, many Christians are not as close-minded as some:

LGBT- Affriming Christian Denominations

Believe Out Loud - Christianity and LGBT Equality

Religious Groups Official Position on Right to Choose

(Hint: Many of these state that although abortion should not be used as a method of birth control, there are rational situations in which an abortion is indicated, and it is the woman's right to choose.)

Perhaps Christendom-at-large is not as unified or as bigoted as some individual Christians?

a reply to: undo

# does happen, just not only to Christians. It's like me saying since a group of terrorists killed a bunch of factory workers that means they are trying to exterminate all factory workers. It's illogical.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: undo

# does happen, just not only to Christians. It's like me saying since a group of terrorists killed a bunch of factory workers that means they are trying to exterminate all factory workers. It's illogical.

well i think you would be worried about factory workers if that group of terrorists said they were going to exterminate factory workers and drove home the point by killing several of them and filmed the whole thing. at least i'd hope so.

originally posted by: undo
i discounted the other people because we are supposedly "a christian nation", according to statistics, and that would include hispanics , who are primarily catholic. so i assumed the bulk of the people (not all) would identify as christian, even if only on their hospital records.

So, you see Americans being killed as Christians being killed, because many of our citizens are Christian. American atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, gay people, black people - ALL of them represent "Christians" being killed to you, because they're Americans and YOU think America is a Christian Nation (whatever that is).

Just a little fact: America is NOT a Christian Nation. You WANT it to be, but it's a nation of MANY religions, ethnicities, and beliefs. Our secular laws are for us ALL, not just for one segment. The law should not force everyone to behave as though they belong to your religion.

the laws:
abortion, porn on television, porn mags sold in public stores, gay marriage, and all the other hot topic laws that are debated ad nauseum, which would not reflect the "norm" of mainstream christian teaching.

And you clearly think our laws should reflect Christian teachings over individual freedom (AND over the opinion of the majority!!!). And because the government doesn't reflect the Christian version of Sharia Law, you think you're persecuted. I think I'm beginning to see now.

NONE of those laws affect YOU. You just seem to want to control everyone. You have a victim mentality and I'm not equipped to deal with it. Get help.

a reply to: Gryphon66

personally, i don't think the gov should be in the business of determining who should or shouldn't be married . in fact, i think the gov is already too involved in people's private lives. so i don't have a problem with gay marriage. i do however think abortion is snarky. my hubby said women who are raped should be able to get abortions cause the blood is on the hands of the rapist or if having the baby will kill the mother, the baby or both. i think that's a good call.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

you asked, i told you. hospital burial records have the bulk of the people as christian, even if they don't practice it. it's just a general overview. i thought, well if we are primarily christian and our laws don't reflect that, that must mean there aren't as many christians here as i thought but if on the books we are primarily christian, that means alot more christians died in those wars than other beliefs. it's just generalizing. not precise statistics.

originally posted by: undo
so i don't have a problem with gay marriage.

You JUST LISTED IT in the laws you have an issue with!!!

my hubby said women who are raped should be able to get abortions

Well, I think it's none of your husband's business what I do with my body!

It's becoming all too clear that you see an inability to legally control other people's behaviors as "persecution" against you and your religion.

Bah!

a reply to: undo

Except ISIS is killing indiscriminately. Their book says that ANYONE who disagrees with them is the enemy, not just Christians. They have killed people from all sorts of faiths, they are not singling any one faith out.