Russian Appeasement continues as Obama lets Merkel lead and fail

originally posted by: Greathouse

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Greathouse

So you`re telling us Nukeland, the son of a Biden, Poroshenko, Yatsenyuk, etc. are all Russian agents?...hmmm, interesting.

A brain is only worth something when it contains the right knowledge.

Oh nuclear war I've been hearing that since the 70s. Ain't going to happen.

The US neither has confronted Russia directly since the '70s. But if that happens, where will you be to face the consequences... in one of those underground bases, or outside on the surface?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

You can repeat it over and over, but it doesn't make it more believable.
In fact, it is the other way around, after Russia had pressured Yanukovych so he did not sign the association agreement which he had negotiated with EU, they were busy to establish a pro russian puppet regime.

a reply to: earthling42

I did an edit with proof.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Putin has no say in Ukraine.
If the US or any other country does business with Ukraine, it is the business of Ukraine, not Russia.

But Russia cannot do business in Ukraine, right? Or else that would be "Russian imperialism". lol

But if they can as much as Western interests, then that only leads us back to pre-putsch Ukraine... only with tens of thousands useless deaths from a civil war.

Also... what's with that personal pride you seem to have with the idea of having Monsanto take over the agro sector in Ukraine, turn the good organic food they still have in the region into toxic GMO belly-filler, contaminating/killing off their lands as they did in India for decades? I mean if you wanna go start a family in Ukraine I can understand... but Monsanto and Chevron? What have you got to do with them in the first place?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Nah, that is no proof.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The moment the US installed a puppet regime against the will of the people he had a say in things in the Ukraine.

The will of those people were to get Yanukovych out because of corruption, lying about signing the EU agreement, and in case you missed it he was a Putin puppet.

And you may have missed this but Ukraine voted for their government democratically, and even your favorite person acknowledges the legitimacy of the elected government but hey what does the truth matter right?

Also you may have forgotten the parliament that was elected during Yanukovych reign, not to mention his own party voted for his impeachment...but of course all this was done by the US, right?

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

You can repeat it over and over, but it doesn't make it more believable.
In fact, it is the other way around, after Russia had pressured Yanukovych so he did not sign the association agreement which he had negotiated with EU, they were busy to establish a pro russian puppet regime.

You took that from the Skunkworks section of ATS, didn't you? Did they also plan to put tin foil hats over the heads of those Ukrainian "anti-communist resisters"?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

...but of course all this was done by the US, right?

The coup, the three puppet fake President election and getting Yatsenyuk in place was indeed by US design, but you know that.

a reply to: Echtelion

Oh, please, use your brain.
If Yanukovych had negotiated an agreement with Russia, it would have been his choice, Ukraine is a sovereign country and is entitled to self-determination.
But the fact is that Yanukovych negotiated with EU and not with Russia.

And please don't make assumptions about me, or must i have personal pride according to your logic because i defend the right of Ukraine's self-determination?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The moment the US installed a puppet regime against the will of the people he had a say in things in the Ukraine.

The will of those people were to get Yanukovych out because of corruption, lying about signing the EU agreement, and in case you missed it he was a Putin puppet.

And you may have missed this but Ukraine voted for their government democratically, and even your favorite person acknowledges the legitimacy of the elected government but hey what does the truth matter right?

Also you may have forgotten the parliament that was elected during Yanukovych reign, not to mention his own party voted for his impeachment...but of course all this was done by the US, right?

Obviously it's not "the will of the people" that happened nearly one year ago in Kiev, on the morning of the 22nd. The Parliament was raided by the Neonazi and ultra-nationalist parties who did a special assembly to oust the ELECTED government.

That is what is called a "putsch", a forced change of government, and that's actually completely contrary to the blurry notion of "will of the people".

OR perhaps can you point me to any election that was held that day to vote for a new government in Kiev? Sorry, didn't happen. Elections were held several months later.

a reply to: Echtelion

Apparently ATS has places for me to discover, but since you speak of tin foil hats, i think i'll skip.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: Echtelion

Apparently ATS has places for me to discover, but since you speak of tin foil hats, i think i'll skip.

What's it got to do with your tall tale about Putin secretly prepared a regime change in Ukraine as response to Yanukovitch signing the EU deal?

Do you know why the deal with the EU/IMF wasn't signed, btw? Because it was an insanely toxic deal! The IMF was to force austerity measures on the country through a massive loan, while it would cut them off from an exclusive oil contract with Russia that would have made their gas several times cheaper. What did happen since Porkochenko... even before he took power?

Austerity, civil war and steep gas prices.

Bravo for the math.

a reply to: Echtelion

But Russia cannot do business in Ukraine, right? Or else that would be "Russian imperialism". lol

Nobody says he can't, but when that business includes annexing part of it then no he shouldn't be doing business in Ukraine.

But if they can as much as Western interests, then that only leads us back to pre-putsch Ukraine... only with tens of thousands useless deaths from a civil war.

And those deaths wouldn't have happened if Putin were not the man behind it, by using his troops to kick it off...remember the little green men that were seen in Crimea and the East of UKraine before the supposed civil war started.

Also... what's with that personal pride you seem to have with the idea of having Monsanto take over the agro sector in Ukraine, turn the good organic food they still have in the region into toxic GMO belly-filler, contaminating/killing off their lands as they did in India for decades?

Except the suicides started 7 years before Monsanto introduced the cotton seeds to India...

The issue of farmer suicides first gained media attention in 1995 as the southern state of Maharashtra began reporting a significant rise in farmers killing themselves.

INDIA FARM SUICIDE

Other states across the country began noticing an increase in farmer suicides as well.

But it wasn’t until seven years later — in 2002 — that the U.S.-based agribusiness Monsanto began selling genetically modified cotton seeds, known as Bt cotton, to Indian farmers. The seeds produce insecticides and led to higher yields, but can be up to 10 times more expensive than regular cotton seeds.

Within years, a narrative began to take shape that farmers were getting into debt to pay for the seed and when they couldn’t repay the money were killing themselves. Another version was that the GM crop failed, leading to debt, leading to suicide.

But in 2008, the International Food Policy Research Institute, an alliance of 64 governments, private foundations, and international and regional organizations that aims to end hunger in the developing world, reached an entirely different conclusion.

“It is not only inaccurate, but simply wrong to blame the use of Bt cotton as the primary cause of farmer suicides in India,” said the report, stating that the introduction of Bt cotton in India had actually been effective in producing higher yields and decreasing pesticide usage by nearly 40%.

news.nationalpost.com...

But instead of learning the facts...you find it easier to blame someone from the US.

a reply to: Echtelion

Ahh apparently you have read the deal, please enlighten us about it because i do not know what he had negotiated with EU.

Any links to the pdf of the deal?

"But instead of learning the facts...you find it easier to blame someone from the US. "

The facts are that Monsanto has been extensively operating in the agro industry in India for several decades, and this is called the Green Revolution. These are the facts.

And Monsanto's GMO solutions did indeed a lot of damages there:

In Punjab, for instance, of the 138 development blocks, 84 have already been declared dark zones -- the level of groundwater exploitation in these blocks has been in excess of 98 percent against the critical limit of 80 percent.

The National Bureau of Soil Survey and Land Use Planning estimates that nearly 120 million hectares of the total cultivable land of 142 million hectares in the country is degraded.

The Green Revolution was projected to have saved the country some 58 million hectares of additional land to be brought under the plough, whereas almost twice that land mass has been rendered degraded and ecologically devastated.

The Indian farmers have committed suicides, among many other actions of desperation against Monsanto, not due to the cotton seeds, but to the BT CORN that's been cultivated all over there for a long time.

Nice attempt at some senseless straw men, but you still fail.

...and also a fail for your confidence in Monsanto in the US

a reply to: Echtelion

Obviously it's not "the will of the people" that happened nearly one year ago in Kiev, on the morning of the 22nd. The Parliament was raided by the Neonazi and ultra-nationalist parties who did a special assembly to oust the ELECTED government.

The Maidan wouldn't have happened if it were not the will of the people.

I would love to see your proof of neo Nazi's raiding parliament that was indeed full of Yanukovych party members who were instrumental in his impeachment...

Oleksandr Yefremov, parliamentary leader of Yanukovych's Party of Regions, condemned the ousted President on Sunday in a video statement, blaming him for the "robbery and deception" of the nation.

The former ruling party blamed Yanukovych for illegal orders that led to casualties, financial debt and shame in the eyes of the world, Yefremov said.

www.cnn.com...

But I wouldn't actually expect you to do the research when it's easier to call everyone that opposes the crap Yanukovych pulled on the people as being Nazi's.

So it seems the former president was part of the NAzi' party since it was his own party that called for his removal. Or did they fall to the supposed neo Nazi's that raided parliament?

OR perhaps can you point me to any election that was held that day to vote for a new government in Kiev? Sorry, didn't happen. Elections were held several months later.

And that vote happened according to Ukrainian law...you know the one Yanukovych seem to not understand when he fled the country and abandoned his post as president.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Look... I'll be blunt. I don't see any reason why I should argue with any spook who's referring to CNN as "the truth" or at even a valid source for "research", ok?

I know the stuff that comes every morning from the Ministry of Propaganda in my region, which is a copy-paste version of what CNN or the BBC says. I don't need you to parrot that to me here. This ain't just the Internet, that's Above Top Secret, so will you...

Here`s about what happened with the EU deal...

In November 2013, Yanukovych learned from experts at the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine that the total cost to the country’s economy from severing its business connections to Russia would be around $160 billion, 50 times the $3 billion figure that the EU had estimated, Der Spiegel reported.

The figure stunned Yanukovych, who pleaded for financial help that the EU couldn’t provide, the magazine said. Western loans would have to come from the International Monetary Fund, which was demanding painful “reforms” of Ukraine’s economy, structural changes that would make the hard lives of average Ukrainians even harder, including raising the price of natural gas by 40 percent and devaluing Ukraine’s currency, the hryvnia, by 25 percent.

With Putin offering a more generous aid package of $15 billion, Yanukovych backed out of the EU agreement but told the EU’s Eastern Partnership Summit in Vilnius, Lithuania, on Nov. 28, 2013, that he was willing to continue negotiating. German Chancellor Angela Merkel responded with “a sentence dripping with disapproval and cool sarcasm aimed directly at the Ukrainian president. ‘I feel like I’m at a wedding where the groom has suddenly issued new, last minute stipulations,” according to Der Spiegel’s chronology of the crisis.

Source

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: earthling42

The moment the US installed a puppet regime against the will of the people he had a say in things in the Ukraine.

A weak 37% approve of the EU's leadership.

There was no coup. This has been established as fact and the Ukraine government has been recognized by Russia.

Using a Gallup pole that is over a year old does not adequately reflect the current situation in Ukraine.


May 2014 - Ukraine favors Europe over Russia, new CNN poll finds


July 2014 - Public Opinion Against Russia Hardens After Ukraine Intervention, Poll Finds


Putin has no business invading Ukraine. It is not his country, its sovereign and it can decide for itself the direction they want to take.