Most of you are NOT a child of God - Here is the proof.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

I dont know what you expected, but people come here looking for knowledge...not a sermon. I feel maybe you should look to preaching to a community that is already very religious.

I will say this though. We dont want reaffirming. We are not in pain, doubt or regret. We dont need to be told how to find happiness. We are happy and most are VERY good people who dont need saving. We have not been stained so maybe others should take that bath.

If the truth of history is too much to deal with because you are unprepared by lack of study, then perhaps you are still a student and not yet ready to "lay it down". We are amateurs, can you imagine what a real student of history would do to an argument so frail?

Here are a few things that must be addressed before we feel the holy spirit....Jesus was not of the Davidic lineage and was not the Messiah to the Jewish people. NO WHERE did Jesus speak about the trinity, that is a PAGAN custom of interpreting the Godhead that was included by constantine to appeal to the pagans of the Roman empire he pissed off by changing the religion of the empire abruptly. Mary was not a virgin. It is a well known translation error from aramaic to greek. Mary was a maiden of marrying age who was clean according to Jewish law of the time....but since greeks dont have a Jewish word to mean all that they summed it up with ....VIRGIN. The old testament is based off babylonian mythology. Adam is ADAPA who also contributed to humanity being made from his rib.... the seven days of creation are based off the seven books of creation....etcetera...so much more as well....

Ok. So if you want to feed my soul start by eliminating all lies since they only cause discord and chaos no matter the intentions.

I will say this though. Knowing the truth of things does not make me the stereotypical heden you imagine anyone who thinks this way is nor does it leave me at a loss.....all the contrary. I feel privileged to know the REAL MESSAGE and not one that emperors and politicians formed in palaces and capitals. The same false message that anti social idiots formed while locked away from life and love in secluded towers of monasteries or cloisters.

You would ignore a truth for the sake of honesty? Or you would forgo honesty for the sake of your religion?...which in that case is not about God....but about the ego of mortal men.

I feel that knowing more is not a bad thing. Ignorance is not something a loving person wishes on others. It is also not something that a liberated person pushes on others. A liberated person liberates others....He would defy any evil for the sake of his love for mankind. Especially a false good veiled in good intentions.....evil often hides behind those.

a reply to: tadaman

Here are a few things that must be addressed before we feel the holy spirit....Jesus was not of the Davidic lineage and was not the Messiah to the Jewish people.

Would you expound your statement that Jesus was not of the lineage of David?

a reply to: DeathSlayer
Can you please prove scientology wrong. Because he was a science fiction writer is not proof

a reply to: Seede

sure.

3.He was not descended from the House of David. According to Jewish law, tribal identification comes from the father's side, being Jewish, from the mother's side. According to Matthew 1, Joseph was descended from David (Although there are many contradictions between his genealogy there and that listed in Luke, however according to the same text, Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary, therefore Jesus was not related to Joseph, and not a descendant of King David.

Three answers to this problem are given in classic Christian sources:

a.The genealogy is that of Mary - This is inadequate, since if he is claimed to be the Jewish messiah, and according to Jewish tradition he must be descended on his father's side, Mary's genealogy is irrelevant.

b.He was adopted by Joseph -According to Jewish law, adoption does not change the status of the child. If an Israelite is adopted by a Cohen, (A descendant of Aaron the High Priest), the child does not become a Cohen, likewise if a descendant of David, adopts someone who is not, he does not become of the tribe of Judah and a descendant of David.

c.It doesn't matter, he was a spiritual inheritor of King David - If it doesn't matter, why do Christian scriptures spend time establishing his genealogical pedigree? And if he is claimed to be the Jewish messiah, then according to Jewish tradition it does matter!

ohr.edu...

Also Mathew fabricated much of Jesus lineage. Mathew adds five sexually unclean women to the lineage and skips over several Judean kings. He established the lineage of Christ by numerology based on the name of David.

He uses a 14-set genealogy of Jesus in the Greek gospel of Matthew. 14 being the gematrical number based on the name of David, DVD 4+6+4. This is an effort to appeal to Jewish mystics. Its absurd to say the least.

the 5 unclean women (sexually) are

Rachab the Harlot

Tamar who was raped by her brother Yehudah

Ruth who tried to seduce and have sex with her deceased husband’s cousin Boaz and then lived with her mother in law Naomi in a "questionable" relationship

Then the promiscuous Jebusite (Canaanite tribe) princess, Bath-Shebiti. Her name, Bath sheba lit = daughter of the 7 gods. She was married to Uriah the Hittite and committed Adultery with David and bore an illegitimate son who became the clan chieftain Jedediah

And finally Miryam of Galilee, known to be a whore (unclean).

Then there is Luke who completely invented a new set of Old testament lineages. He just up an wrote a new section to the old testament that dealt with davids lineage.

Though they both name Joseph as the father of Jesus, they give different names for the father of Joseph (id est, the paternal grandfather of Jesus). Matthew gives Jacob; Luke gives Heli. And thence the lists diverge completely until we come to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel.

Likewise, Matthew and Luke give different fathers for Shealtiel. Matthew gives Jechoniah; Luke gives Neri. And thence again the lists diverge until we come to David. Matthew traces this part of the line through Solomon and the kings of Judah. Luke traces it through Nathan and an otherwise unknown bevy of names.

The matching names from Abraham to David are easily gleaned from the Old Testament, and even in this solid line of descent Luke manages to deviate with the names Arni and Admin. If Arni is the same man as Aram (or Ram), then the problem is alleviated slightly, but I know of no direct evidence for the identification. Admin, on the other hand, is an extra name no matter how one slices it. One wonders what independent tradition Luke could have had access to that he valued more highly than either the LXX or (what was to become) the Masoretic!

www.textexcavation.com...

Basically Luke traces Mary back to David. The author of Mathew uses Joseph. Its a fabrication sir. It all takes away from the real message of christ.

a reply to: tadaman

Basically Luke traces Mary back to David. The author of Mathew uses Joseph. Its a fabrication sir. It all takes away from the real message of christ.

Quite interesting tadaman and thanks for the sources.
Matthews account would automatically be moot because of the curse of Jehoiakim (Jechonias).
Jeremiah cites that no seed of Jehoiakim could ever sit on the throne of David (Jeremiah 36:30,31).
Matthew 1:12 lists Mary as from the seed of Jehoiakim or Jechonias so that alone would automatically disqualify Mary's seed.

Luke does not list Jechonias because the account is being made from Joseph. Both are moot, as you have pointed out, simply because the seed of Christ Jesus was God and not man. It can be accounted as that of man but is not accountable to that of man.
Thank you for a good lesson and much to chew on.

a reply to: Seede

> Melchizedek was actually Shem.

Can you provide a link to support his view?

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Rex282
You post:
I would like to first remind you of my thread - I was talking about the times when the Israelites were released from Egyptian slavery during the time of Moses. I was talking clearly about the Torah time frame.

I am not in need of history lesson. I know your Jewish.

Israel is the archetype of ALL of mankind.ALL of mankind are the promise of the many “called people” made to Abraham that his descendants would be as many as there are stars which is WAY beyond any genetic Israelites or especially Jews.

Really ........ you need me to clarify this for you? Put your Jewish studies to one side.

I learned many years ago that I cannot bring the lost to Christ through debates or well-crafted arguments. The preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom must be carried out by the power of the Spirit with the gifts of the Spirit in manifestation.

The Gospel of the kingdom was always intended to be demonstrated, not just talked about. Signs, wonders, miracles and the spiritual gifts are needed in order to bring the full Gospel message to the lost. The word of knowledge was brought forth by the Holy Spirit.

No disrespect intended - To generalize the teachings in the bible as some have done on this thread are equal to those who are called false teachers .....you speak of doctrines of men.

You are clearly in need of a history lesson.Judah was NEVER ever Israel.They were once just one tribe of the nation of Israel.That’s as close to being “Israel” as they ever got.

My point is by your attempts to “simplify” you have abrogated the simple truth.ALL of mankind are the chosen people of the creator God.If that sounds Jewish to you(which I am not Jewish in the least nor do I study Judaism) you need way more than a history lesson.

You are correct you cannot bring the lost to christ because there are no “lost” and bringing them to “christ” is a false religious construct that is meaningless.Yahoshua nor the disciples ever proclaimed such a doctrine of men it is an invention of Christianity.
The preaching of the Good news is very simple…proclaim the truth ….which you have not done.What you have done is called the creator God an elitist and vilifying all those that don’t believe as you do and in the process demeaning the creator God.

The Good news is very simple ….ALL of mankind will be the sons and daughters of the creator God when they are delivered/saved…born anew.It is you that is preaching the doctrines of men with your methods of religion and not the truth. I am stating the same thing Yahoshua and the disciples did..the Good News..that ALL of mankind will be delivered from Hades…..there is nothing to add to that.There is no method or acts enacted by a person to cause them to receive it.That is what you believe and I know it is not truth.

Many Christians have a martyr complex because they believe when they preach their bad news to “unbelievers” who will categorically reject it (and very rightly so) they are being persecuted. That is not true at all because most reasonable people don’t like the "Christianity gospel" and reject it because it is not the truth and because many Christians act like condescending dicks when they “preach”.

If you were in tune to truth you’d know that I am not Jewish or any religion.I consistently write that the Belief System religion of man is what separates a person from the creator God.For almost 2,000 years Christianity has perverted the truth of the Good news in one form or another.To the unbeliever it is very obvious many Christians only believe in “their” Christianity”.That is the main reason many don’t want anything to do with “their” Christian God and Jesus.

If you could see the condescension and spite you wrote the OP with and your responses you’d understand that most people do not hate “God”.They hate what the religious call God because that God is very offensive because it is made in the image of the religious that preach bad news.If you preach to people they are spurned and despised by God because of their lack of faith they will act that way..and you are the catalyst.

The truth is very easy to proclaim because it’s Good news.None has ever been made free(delivered) by hearing the bad news.Only knowing the truth makes someone freed from the bondage of religion..and that is very Good news.

a reply to: Rex282

You are clearly in need of a history lesson.Judah was NEVER ever Israel.They were once just one tribe of the nation of Israel.That’s as close to being “Israel” as they ever got.

I have heard that discussed several times and can be taken in several ways. Your right in the tribal sense that Judah and Benjamin withdrew from the nation Israel (Other 10 tribes) but then again Jacob was changed to Israel and gave Judah the authority of Israel. (Gen. 49:8-10)

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Clearly I can see that many have side tracked the thread attempting to derail it. Of course I was expecting this especially from the non believer.

Instead of debating what was said in the OP ........out come the wannabe historians and new age cultist with their opinions.

It is clear the statements I made are directed at those who disbelieve also known as the "lost" as stated in the OP.

As I have stated in an earlier post: I learned many years ago that I cannot bring the lost to Christ through debates or well-crafted arguments. The preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom must be carried out by the power of the Spirit with the gifts of the Spirit in manifestation.

So in my defense, out of love, I do NOT force feed anyone, I do hope however that those who no longer have faith and have decided to reject the teachings of the Gospel; have a supernatural revelation about God and his kingdom.

I dont think none is trying to side track your thread: posting something publicly on ATS forum means you don't 'own' it anymore. It's open discussion down here, preaching is risky business .

If you want the control of the discussion, like in 'don't shake my faith', create a chat room on invite only or post on sites with the same believes as yours. I also think it's EGO speaking to pretend knowing who is 'lost' and who understands god's plan: everybody lives in it's own reality, made of dozen's of different life changing 'critera' like gender, country, wealth, religion, health and so on... meaning each of us has it's own reality where rigid religious thinking is an aberration.

Loving/caring for each other: big yes! Controling masses with pseudo religious science for political/social/monetary control with man made fable books? No way for me. Keep that with your fears (lost/hell/eternal fire/damnation etc..)

I respect your faith, as I do to anyones, but I put a higher value on freedom.

Just sayin anyway, because nobody own the truth, myself included.

Jeff

a reply to: wasaka

> Melchizedek was actually Shem. Can you provide a link to support his view?

No I cannot give you a source link to answer that specifically because it is in my past studies but if you have the copy of Pirke De Rabbi Eliezer, translated by Gerald Friedlander you may find it on page 195.

Foot notes -----------
"He (Shem) was the chief priest then: see supra, pp 531 and cf. J.E.xi. 261 f. As we have seen, P.R.E. identifies Shem with Melchizedek; Jubilees xiii 25, especially Charles note on pp. 100 f.

Also you can see in most bibles the following.
Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Gen 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Gen 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

As is stated that God shall dwell in the tents of Shem and that Ham (Canaan) will be his servants while Japheth shall be subservient to Shem. This implies that Shem is the priest of the family and favors Eliezer's tradition as Shem being Melchizedek (King and Priest) ---

After the flood it was Shem who served father Noah and both opened a school in the now known Jerusalem area. This was also the same school that Abram attended in his youth before his encounter with Nimrod.

I don't know if you can download Eliezer on internet but could try. Of course you must always be in mind that all religion is tradition and theology so when giving a source one is giving another person's opinion or tradition.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

We are all part of God's creation but we all are not God's children. If you believe in Jesus can you see how the Christian faith is the only truth, the ONLY way to God?

DeathSlayer,
Reading your thread does not offend me in the slightest. What you have written probably pricks the hearts of some and you will never please all. Jesus had the problem of explaining who were God's children and He also got into a lot of trouble with the whole bunch. You did nothing wrong . Keep chin up and God Bless--

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Rex282

You are clearly in need of a history lesson.Judah was NEVER ever Israel.They were once just one tribe of the nation of Israel.That’s as close to being “Israel” as they ever got.

I have heard that discussed several times and can be taken in several ways. Your right in the tribal sense that Judah and Benjamin withdrew from the nation Israel (Other 10 tribes) but then again Jacob was changed to Israel and gave Judah the authority of Israel. (Gen. 49:8-10)

In Genesis 49 Jacob is telling his sons what will befall them.Jacob is not giving “authority” to Judah as the firstborn.He clearly gave the birthright of the firstborn to Ephraim in his blessing.The controversy about who is “chosen” by the creator God is foolishness of man.The allegory is what is significant not the literal “genetic” people of Israel.They have literally fallen off the map by way of assimilation 3 thousand years ago and are no more.

The point is mankind is the true Israel of the creator God.Their is no hierarchy as man perceives it.All will be sons and daughters of the creator God.The rest is just religious politics.

However the creator God did leave a witness testimony that should leave no confusion their hand was in it all.The main theme of the hierarchy is names.Not much is known of the individual sons of Israel because it is their names in the form of gematria math that are the significant testimony witness.

The creator God seldom gives details of how they are accomplishing their will because it is superfluous and on a need to know basis only.The fact is none would know what they were even if explained and they would have no effect on the outcome.The creator God’s will can never be thwarted in any way contrary to religious belief

What the creator God did is provide a testimony witness that these allegories are their workings.Israel is the central testimony to their work because Israel is the archetype of all of mankind’s “numbers”.The central theme of that work is Yahoshua…whichmeans the creator God is deliverance /salvation(for all of mankind).

The core of the “ceremony” allegory the Israelites performed illuminate those basic numbers.It is not numerology or mysticism.It is a witness testimony period.It takes zero belief it is solid definable evidence of the truth.

For sake of brevity (for those that don’t know)gematria is when the Hebrew letters are also numbers.The witness is the sums of the 12 heirs of Jacob which became the 12 tribes of the nation of Israel.

There are a few modifications that need to be clarified.Levi(Jacobs 3rd son) was not a patriarch/heir because they were the priest tribe consisting of 4 divisions…Aaron-Kohath-Gershon-Merari.

Joseph (Jacobs 11th son) gave his birthright to his 2 sons Ephraim and Mannaseh.

The Patriarch/heirs were symbolized on the high priest Aaron’s breastplate arranged in a 3x4 matrix.It started from the oldest to youngest in the Hebrew order of writing right to left.

Judah-Simeon-Rueben
Gad-Naphtali-Dan
Zebulun Issachar-Asher
Ephraim-Manasseh-Benjamin

the sums of their name in the matrix order are:
30-466-259
7-570-54
95-830-501
331-395-162
=3700

the priests:
Aaron-Kohath-Gershon-Merari
262-505-559-450
=1776

This could appear to be coincidental or random but it isn’t.There is a very significant pattern in part and as a whole.The common factor is 37.The sum of all the patriarch names is 3700=37x100.

The names can be grouped in sums of 296=37x8 example

296x1=296
296x2=592
296x3=888
296x4=1184
296x5=1480
296x6=1776
296x7=2072
296x8=2368
296x9=2664
296x10=2960
296x11=3256
296x12=3552

To save space I won’t list them (they are on other posts of mine).

There are 3 very significant sums in this pattern…888…1480…the isopsephy(Greek gematria) of the names Iesous(888) and christos(1480) which sum to 2368

888=296x3
1480=296x5
2368=296x8

(btw 3-5-8 is the 4th 5th and 6th Fibonacci numbers this is significant because the Fibonacci sequence sums the significant ratio the Golden ratio…phi/Phi)

The sum of the name Iesous and christos is also in a pattern inside the matrix…..the 4th row.

Ephraim+Mannasseh+ Benjamin
331+395+162=888

The 3rd row plus the 1st name of the 2nd row:

Dan+
Zebulun+Issachar+Asher
54+95+830+501=1480

These 7 names sum to 2368=Iesous christos.The remaining 5 names sum:

Judah+Simeon+Rueben+
Gad+Naphtali

30+466+259+7+570=1332

and the priest sum:
Aaron+Kohath+Gershon+Merari
262+505+559+450
1776=888x2

The 5 patriarch names sum calculation is the witness John was told of in his dream/vision in Revelation 13:18

“This is wisdom.Let him that has understanding calculate the number of the beast which is the number of man(mankind) which is 666.”

The number of the beast=666
The number of mankind=666
666+666=1332

These patterns are undeniable and are only scratching the surface.There are many clear patterns.For example.The odd and even ”numbers” of the patriarch matrix sum:
1+3+5+7+9+11=1850
2+4+6+8+10+12=1850.

These numbers cannot be manipulated.The Israelites and Jews(and Christians) have no idea they even existed.It is clearly a sign that the hand of the creator God is in history.However it is working in ways man cannot know.They have seen only to reveal themselves in undeniable fact of very simple math through allegory of archetype.

Israel(the 12 tribes) are the archetype of all of mankind.The creator God has used them as a sign that his hand is in everything and his people(sons and daughters) are ALL of mankind not just the elitist self chosen..and they will not be left desolate.

a reply to: Rex282

The point is mankind is the true Israel of the creator God.Their is no hierarchy as man perceives it.All will be sons and daughters of the creator God.The rest is just religious politics.

I agree that some of mankind is the true Israel of God in the sense that not all of mankind is the true Israel of God. I respectfully disagree with your premise as we have had this discussion before. You are very well versed in gematria and will not comment on that for several personal reasons.

According to the majority Greek manuscripts of most bibles today, most knowledgeable Christians do agree on major doctrinal points but still do, unfortunately, embrace religious politics. That is the main reason I stay away from denominations. Once caught in that snare it then becomes death to biblical discernment.

Your knowledge is exceptional Rex282 and simply because I understand biblical authors different than you does not necessarily mean that I am right. In fact many times I have had to swallow my own words.
Love you Brother

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You said, "If you believe in Jesus can you see how the Christian faith is the only truth, the ONLY way to God?"

Nah! The name Jesus is the third and Latin version of the Greek version of Iesous... His name originally, which is the one given to him by his Father, is Yeshua. Yeshua in Hebrew means 'Yehovah saves', which is what is proclaimed every time this name is said. The names Iesous and Jesus have no such inherent meaning.

Acts 4:12 says "Nor is there salvation in any other for there is no other name under heaven, given among men by which we must be saved." This verse shows the importance of the original name.

You don't have to take my word for this. You yourself can check it out and see if I am telling you the truth or not. Carefully check and see what his original name actually is!

The Son of God said in Matthew 24:9, "Then they will deliver you up to Tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations, on account of / because of my name."

Yeshua doesn't have to say who 'they' are because they will hate and kill you for not worshipping or bending knee to Jesus! Which is to say, Christians will be killing the followers of Yeshua, / the Israelites, 'because of, and over, his name!'

The meaning of that sentence in your post, which is '... Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.” went right over your head.

The Tribulation is our means of taking up our cross / execution stake and following the Son (Matthew 16:24), Yeshua, who said "Whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me'. In other words, you are not fit [don't meet the criteria], for the salvation his blood sacrifice achieved. Now try explaining these words in the context of the Christian faith! These and so many other words spoken by Yeshua in the New Testament, simply don't make any sense whatsoever within Christian beliefs.

You seem to think that the non-acceptance of Jesus by the Jews, changed all of God's plans to include anyone, but this rejection of the Messiah was already foretold in the Old Testament. So this was all part and parcel of God's plan.

The reason for this is shown in Romans 11:11 "I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Let it not be! But by their fall deliverance has come to the gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy."

Yehovah has done this, as spoken of in Isaiah 29:9 'For Yehovah has poured out on you the spirit of a deep sleep, and has closed your eyes, namely, the prophets; and he has covered your heads, the seers.'

This means that when those who were formerly Gentiles, but who have become naturalised Israelites, have prophets and seers who have direct contact with Yehovah, this will provoke the Jews, out of jealousy, to wake from their sleep and comfort zone as the 'chosen ones', to knowledge of their Messiah.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: DeathSlayer

We are all part of God's creation but we all are not God's children. If you believe in Jesus can you see how the Christian faith is the only truth, the ONLY way to God?

DeathSlayer,
Reading your thread does not offend me in the slightest. What you have written probably pricks the hearts of some and you will never please all. Jesus had the problem of explaining who were God's children and He also got into a lot of trouble with the whole bunch. You did nothing wrong . Keep chin up and God Bless--

Thank you for your uplifting post. I felt like I was in a sinking boat BUT there is one thing I have learned here at ATS and that is to have thick skin.

I had a feeling this thread would turn to hate as it has; I had hoped it would not.

So many bible thumpers here at ATS and very few guided by the Holy Spirit.

To those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour and want to argue my original post should step back and reread the OP and to those who have not accepted Jesus, the Christ, Lord and Saviour should reconsider:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

To me that is very plain and clear to understand. There is no hidden meanings behind this verse. This is not a riddle or some type of analogy.

So to those who have refused Jesus and accepted a different belief or different way that leads to the one true God have sealed their fate and should reconsider.

The Bible mentions “generational curses” in several places (Exodus 20:5; 34:7; Numbers 14:18; Deuteronomy 5:9). God warns that He is “a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.”

God bless you.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

DeathSlayer.
You might become interested in Eth Cepher. Google this book and you will fall in love with it. www.cepher.net...

a reply to: DeathSlayer

DeathSlayer.
You might become interested in Eth Cepher. Google this book and you will fall in love with it. www.cepher.net...

a reply to: Seede

I will check it out.

Thank you.

a reply to: Maigret

Nah! The name Jesus is the third and Latin version of the Greek version of Iesous... His name originally, which is the one given to him by his Father, is Yeshua. Yeshua in Hebrew means 'Yehovah saves', which is what is proclaimed every time this name is said. The names Iesous and Jesus have no such inherent meaning.

There has been a Hebrew three years study of the names of God and of Jesus and is now completed.
The name of the God of Abram is YAHUAH pronounced as Yah - Hoo - ah ----
The name of Jesus is YAHUSHA pronounced as Yah - hoo - sha --
The ah and sha are pronounced as when the doctor says to say ahhh--
www.cepher.net...
Watch the video ---
That is if your interested but God and Jesus knows who you mean so really does it make all that much difference?