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3.He was not descended from the House of David. According to Jewish law, tribal identification comes from the father's side, being Jewish, from the mother's side. According to Matthew 1, Joseph was descended from David (Although there are many contradictions between his genealogy there and that listed in Luke, however according to the same text, Joseph did not have sexual relations with Mary, therefore Jesus was not related to Joseph, and not a descendant of King David.
Three answers to this problem are given in classic Christian sources:
a.The genealogy is that of Mary - This is inadequate, since if he is claimed to be the Jewish messiah, and according to Jewish tradition he must be descended on his father's side, Mary's genealogy is irrelevant.
b.He was adopted by Joseph -According to Jewish law, adoption does not change the status of the child. If an Israelite is adopted by a Cohen, (A descendant of Aaron the High Priest), the child does not become a Cohen, likewise if a descendant of David, adopts someone who is not, he does not become of the tribe of Judah and a descendant of David.
c.It doesn't matter, he was a spiritual inheritor of King David - If it doesn't matter, why do Christian scriptures spend time establishing his genealogical pedigree? And if he is claimed to be the Jewish messiah, then according to Jewish tradition it does matter!
www.textexcavation.com...
Though they both name Joseph as the father of Jesus, they give different names for the father of Joseph (id est, the paternal grandfather of Jesus). Matthew gives Jacob; Luke gives Heli. And thence the lists diverge completely until we come to Shealtiel and Zerubbabel.
Likewise, Matthew and Luke give different fathers for Shealtiel. Matthew gives Jechoniah; Luke gives Neri. And thence again the lists diverge until we come to David. Matthew traces this part of the line through Solomon and the kings of Judah. Luke traces it through Nathan and an otherwise unknown bevy of names.
The matching names from Abraham to David are easily gleaned from the Old Testament, and even in this solid line of descent Luke manages to deviate with the names Arni and Admin. If Arni is the same man as Aram (or Ram), then the problem is alleviated slightly, but I know of no direct evidence for the identification. Admin, on the other hand, is an extra name no matter how one slices it. One wonders what independent tradition Luke could have had access to that he valued more highly than either the LXX or (what was to become) the Masoretic!
Basically Luke traces Mary back to David. The author of Mathew uses Joseph. Its a fabrication sir. It all takes away from the real message of christ.
originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Rex282
You post:
I would like to first remind you of my thread - I was talking about the times when the Israelites were released from Egyptian slavery during the time of Moses. I was talking clearly about the Torah time frame.
I am not in need of history lesson. I know your Jewish.
Israel is the archetype of ALL of mankind.ALL of mankind are the promise of the many “called people” made to Abraham that his descendants would be as many as there are stars which is WAY beyond any genetic Israelites or especially Jews.
Really ........ you need me to clarify this for you? Put your Jewish studies to one side.
I learned many years ago that I cannot bring the lost to Christ through debates or well-crafted arguments. The preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom must be carried out by the power of the Spirit with the gifts of the Spirit in manifestation.
The Gospel of the kingdom was always intended to be demonstrated, not just talked about. Signs, wonders, miracles and the spiritual gifts are needed in order to bring the full Gospel message to the lost. The word of knowledge was brought forth by the Holy Spirit.
No disrespect intended - To generalize the teachings in the bible as some have done on this thread are equal to those who are called false teachers .....you speak of doctrines of men.
You are clearly in need of a history lesson.Judah was NEVER ever Israel.They were once just one tribe of the nation of Israel.That’s as close to being “Israel” as they ever got.
originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Clearly I can see that many have side tracked the thread attempting to derail it. Of course I was expecting this especially from the non believer.
Instead of debating what was said in the OP ........out come the wannabe historians and new age cultist with their opinions.
It is clear the statements I made are directed at those who disbelieve also known as the "lost" as stated in the OP.
As I have stated in an earlier post: I learned many years ago that I cannot bring the lost to Christ through debates or well-crafted arguments. The preaching of the Gospel of the kingdom must be carried out by the power of the Spirit with the gifts of the Spirit in manifestation.
So in my defense, out of love, I do NOT force feed anyone, I do hope however that those who no longer have faith and have decided to reject the teachings of the Gospel; have a supernatural revelation about God and his kingdom.
> Melchizedek was actually Shem. Can you provide a link to support his view?
We are all part of God's creation but we all are not God's children. If you believe in Jesus can you see how the Christian faith is the only truth, the ONLY way to God?
originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Rex282
You are clearly in need of a history lesson.Judah was NEVER ever Israel.They were once just one tribe of the nation of Israel.That’s as close to being “Israel” as they ever got.
I have heard that discussed several times and can be taken in several ways. Your right in the tribal sense that Judah and Benjamin withdrew from the nation Israel (Other 10 tribes) but then again Jacob was changed to Israel and gave Judah the authority of Israel. (Gen. 49:8-10)
The point is mankind is the true Israel of the creator God.Their is no hierarchy as man perceives it.All will be sons and daughters of the creator God.The rest is just religious politics.
originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: DeathSlayer
We are all part of God's creation but we all are not God's children. If you believe in Jesus can you see how the Christian faith is the only truth, the ONLY way to God?
DeathSlayer,
Reading your thread does not offend me in the slightest. What you have written probably pricks the hearts of some and you will never please all. Jesus had the problem of explaining who were God's children and He also got into a lot of trouble with the whole bunch. You did nothing wrong . Keep chin up and God Bless--
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Nah! The name Jesus is the third and Latin version of the Greek version of Iesous... His name originally, which is the one given to him by his Father, is Yeshua. Yeshua in Hebrew means 'Yehovah saves', which is what is proclaimed every time this name is said. The names Iesous and Jesus have no such inherent meaning.