Most of you are NOT a child of God - Here is the proof.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

You answered more than I asked. I didn't ask the procedure on HOW to prove the bible wrong, I asked if you think that the act of trying to prove it wrong is being deceitful.

originally posted by: wasaka

originally posted by: DeathSlayer




We are all part of God's creation but we all are not God's children.

This line of thought is cultish.

If God is our Father, then all men are brothers. Those who reject this
common sense truth have embraced a cultish theology.

The idea of God is an evolutionary idea. One which has had a cultural progression from polytheism to monolarity in various places throughout human history, from Kemet (Egypt) to Levant (Canaan). The religion of ancient Israel is a product of this same process. They borrowed not only their neighbor’s architecture but the name of their god as well, then the nature of this tribal deity changed over time.

The vast majority of Christians look to the Hebrew scripture as their authority and thus their single source of faith (or theology). Even those who uphold the authoritativeness of “Holy Writ” will admit polytheism in Israelite history had a long run until under Hezekiah and then later Josiah destroyed the temples, idols and altars of other gods. Josiah’s reign is one of monolarity pushing towards monotheism which doesn’t fully take root until after the Jewish exile.

The Biblical word for God is “EL” and that word is not Jewish in origin, but rather it traces back to older Levant (Canaanite) religion. The patriarch Abraham is known as the father of the world’s three great monotheistic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. For centuries his faithfulness to one god (at a time when people worshiped many deities) has been regarded as a monumental break with the society around him. However, an archaeological discovery known as the Ugaritic texts is opening a window onto a different cultural context for Abraham’s story and it is turning most assumptions about “god” on their head.

Here is question for you: Was Melchizedek a son of God? According to the Letter to the Hebrews, Jesus Christ is identified as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek, and so Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all. Again, was this Priest of El what you would call a "son of God" by your theology?

If God is our Father, then all men are brothers. Those who reject this
common sense truth have embraced a cultish theology.

That is your first mistake - God is not everyone's father and not every child is a child of God. I have proven this point in my thread. Many refuse to accept God for who he is so you speak in general terms....... way to vague for me.

You wish to derail the thread - not falling for this.

I have shown proof that not everyone is a child of God.

Three faiths around the world accept the Torah as a main part of their teaching. Are you telling me that 2 to 3 billion people are wrong and you are right?

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Do not all engines work to the same principle? . And i do not recall giving any instructions .

Well then, if Jesus doesn't want me for a sunbeam, I'll just be a sunbeam for those who DO want me! His loss.

originally posted by: wasaka

originally posted by: DeathSlayer







We are all part of God's creation but we all are not God's children.

The idea of God is an evolutionary idea. One which has had a cultural progression from polytheism to monolarity in various places throughout human history, from Kemet (Egypt) to Levant (Canaan). The religion of ancient Israel is a product of this same process. They borrowed not only their neighbor’s architecture but the name of their god as well, then the nature of this tribal deity changed over time.

The greatest discovery made at the Ugarit site was a collection of tablets carved with (a then) unknown cuneiform script. In 1932 some of the tablets were deciphered. The literature of the city and the theology contained therein go a very long way in helping us to understand the meaning of various Biblical passages as well as aiding us in deciphering difficult Hebrew words, phrases, concepts, and ideas.

No less than seven different scripts were in use at Ugarit: Egyptian and Luwian hieroglyphs, and Cypro-Minoan, Sumerian, Akkadian, Hurrian, and Ugaritic cuneiform. These “Ugaritic texts” contain detailed descriptions of the Canaanite religion that Abraham encountered after he left his native Ur. Most interesting among these details are references to a god named EL or Elohim, which translates loosely as “the Lord.” From these inscribed clay tablets we learn that while many gods were worshiped, in the Canaanite Pantheon it was EL who reigned supreme over all the deities.

Christian and Jewish apologists tell us the religion of Ugarit and the religion of ancient Israel were not the same, but there were some striking overlaps. For example, the name of the ultimate divine authority at Ugarit was EL, one of the names of the God of Israel (e.g., Gen 33:20). EL was described as an aged god with white hair, seated on a throne. However, at Ugarit, EL was sovereign, but another god ran things on earth for EL as his vizier. That god’s name was Baal, a name quite familiar to anyone who has read the Old Testament.

It turns out that that while EL was called the “creator god” it was believed this “father of all gods” had as many 52 sons, Baal and Dagon being chief among them. Then were were the lesser gods, Mot, Ashtar, Astarte, Lotan, Melqart, Resheph, and others. Most shocking of all is the name Yahweh. This son of El does more than make an appearance in the Hebrew scriptures, he become the central character. However, 100 years before Abraham was born EL and Yahweh were written about by pantheist and preserved in clay at Ugarit.

According to the Hebrew scripture, Abraham first encounters EL (or rather a priest of EL Elyon) in the city of Jerusalem, which was known in antiquity as Salem. In the Book of Genesis, Abraham rescues his kidnapped nephew, Lot, from the Mesopotamians, and on returning from battle he meets Melchizedek, king of Salem, who gives him bread and wine and blesses him in the name of El Elyon (“God Most High”). Until the Ugaritic texts were decoded, it was just assumed this was the same God to whom Christian pray–-but was it?

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

If God is our Father, then all men are brothers. Those who reject this

common sense truth have embraced a cultish theology.

That is your first mistake - God is not everyone's father and not every child is a child of God. I have proven this point in my thread. Many refuse to accept God for who he is so you speak in general terms....... way to vague for me.



I have shown proof that not everyone is a child of God.



Three faiths around the world accept the Torah as a main part of their teaching. Are you telling me that 2 to 3 billion people are wrong and you are right?

My question hasn't been answered: Do you consider Melchizedek to be a "child of God" or a son of God?

originally posted by: Cogidubnus
a reply to: DeathSlayer

Now that is an interesting statement. What if you are? What if you have spent your entire life worshiping only false idols? I don't know you, I am not saying you have been. Merely a hypothetical, "what if?" I do believe in your book of worship it states, "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25"Behold, I have told you in advance".

What if you and every other religious devout individual has been bamboozled from the start! What if you inadvertently worship the ultimate mack daddy of all false idols every day of your life and you never had a clue? Scary stuff. You better hope God's got a plan for that one...

WOW - you get a star from me. VERY GOOD POINT.

Your right there are many false prophets out here. And I will even add to it....... MANY .....MANY.... FALSE CHRISTIANS!
And there are many who worship false idols. There are and have been many false Christs.

So how do I protect myself from these things? When speaking of the New Testament - Jesus, prophets and his apostles explained how to recognize them. AND one of the main teachings .... guidance by the Holy Spirit. Have you met him? He is real.

So I use the clear teachings in the bible on how to recognize these deceitful people, combine this with prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit with some discernment and you will stay on track.

Of course like you said even the elders of the church will be fooled and they have been! Why they did not stay awake. They could not see the signs because of their own sins.

Hey I am far from being perfect and I am not a teenager (a grandfather) so I have seen a lot while travelling around on this rock. IMO it is relevantly easy to spot a false Christian, false prophet, false teacher, someone who is NOT a child of God.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DeathSlayer

You answered more than I asked. I didn't ask the procedure on HOW to prove the bible wrong, I asked if you think that the act of trying to prove it wrong is being deceitful.

Of course not, unless deceit is the reason for doing it. That would be in the person's heart.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

So are people who make valid criticisms of the bible not children of god either? Or do you not consider any criticism of the bible valid?

originally posted by: Jonjonj
Well then, if Jesus doesn't want me for a sunbeam, I'll just be a sunbeam for those who DO want me! His loss.

Wait a minute....... he does want you but you have to surrender to his father and do the will of his father.

Don't get me wrong..... God loves us all but those that reject him are not his children because if they did love him they would do as he says? Right?

Here is an example: I love my son but he commits murder even though I told him thousand of times that murder is wrong he still does it and now the courts have sentenced him to die for murder. So my son dies by lethal injection. Do I still love my son?

Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth

From my point of view:

Works is the answer. All chosen/blessed ones in every religion have been from the same source no matter the name. There are souls on this planet that follow Jesus teaching perfectly without knowing it and without caring about how they label themselves.

The Sikh, Hindu, Bahá'í, Buddhist have the same source(God) but different ways to teach the union with source than Jesus. The same holy spirit is found behind all religions. Light/chi/kundalini is the same things. The energetic love vibration from the higher levels.

For the source there is no true religions giving the all spanning truth that defines everything. They are all more or less idols of the all spanning truth.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DeathSlayer

So are people who make valid criticisms of the bible not children of god either? Or do you not consider any criticism of the bible valid?

Criticising the bible is something I even do at times! During seminary studies and studying some of the letters of Paul frustrates me. Sometimes I think the scribes made simple mistakes other times I think some bible versions are translated by the blind!! Then there are times when I am wrong and have misinterpreted its meaning. And there are some bibles out here so badly translated that I would like to burn them!

Criticism is healthy and I see nothing wrong with it ONLY as long as God, his angels, prophets, his spirit and his son is not being disgraced and not given the proper glory that they deserve.

Anytime criticism starts attacking one's faith is when criticism has stopped and hatred begun.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Or you could question anything said in the old and new testaments as the words of men that very conveniently decided on calling their followers ''favoured by God'', ''special'' etc, hence making them their followers and subject to their rules. How clever and how gullible.

How can you prove these men were not being guided by God to write down what they see and hear? Is this not possible?

god, by principle, is not tested because that undermines the margin of plausible deniability that currently stands as gods sole defense against modern science. furthermore, exceptions and excuses are endlessly provided as to why god should not be tested, ergo the confusion when it is consistently presented as a fact in spite of its adamantly untestable nature. since it cant be tested, it cant be proven impossible...or possible. which means it is inadmissible in most courts of scientific inquiry. hence why you are HERE arguing about it, and not writing eloquent dissertations to the board of scientific american.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

So questioning god and divinity of Jesus is taboo criticism?

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
From my point of view:

Works is the answer. All chosen/blessed ones in every religion have been from the same source no matter the name. There are souls on this planet that follow Jesus teaching perfectly without knowing it and without caring about how they label themselves.

The Sikh, Hindu, Bahá'í, Buddhist have the same source(God) but different ways to teach the union with source than Jesus. The same holy spirit is found behind all religions. Light/chi/kundalini is the same things. The energetic love vibration from the higher levels.

For the source there is no true religions giving the all spanning truth that defines everything. They are all more or less idols of the all spanning truth.

You know if this was my world and I was the creator I might think like you. It sounds easy and simple but reality it is pretty straight forward. I have spoken to Sikh, Hindu, Bahá'í, Buddhist and Muslims and none of them have gods (not mythical ones) that have done the numerous types of miracles in front of hundreds sometimes thousands of people as Jesus did. This also includes the numerous miracles done by his apostles.

Whether people want to agree or not there is more than one person who was alive during the times of Jesus and his apostles and HIS name has been mentioned for the record as a living man, not some myth as some would want you to believe.

When I was younger I too was confused why does the earth turn as it does, why all the evil, wars, etc.... but once I realized that the god that has current control over this planet is not the same one who created it then it all started to make sense. The millions of signs are out there. Look around use a little discernment and a lot of prayer and then talk to me and watch your outlook change.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

The problem with taking a biblical take on things, especially an old testament /ancient Jewish perspective is that all that is borrowed from other established cultures of the time.

Most dont know or want to admit this BUT

Ancient jews were more like gypsies than a strong identifiable community. They were nomadic herders. Moses offered them a civilizing force that was HEAVILY influenced by babylonian/ Akkadian,/Sumerian material.

The "chosen" people were self appointed chosen ones. The truth is that they took the spiritual beliefs of the day and made it their own....MUCH LIKE Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, Scientologists, and every other new christian sect today. Imagine if the Catholic church is long gone in 1000 years but Mormons still exist...they will have absolute claim to the material they borrowed from that was once entirely a Catholic, European, Roman spiritual system, ect...NOT an American, frontier spirituality, new age / reinvented colonial christianity with occult influences from current times.......

In their infancy Jews were completely wrong in their interpretation of the spiritual norm of the day....according to the ones who founded and developed the material that Jews borrowed from.

I know. Sorry.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Or you could question anything said in the old and new testaments as the words of men that very conveniently decided on calling their followers ''favoured by God'', ''special'' etc, hence making them their followers and subject to their rules. How clever and how gullible.

How can you prove these men were not being guided by God to write down what they see and hear? Is this not possible?

god, by principle, is not tested because that undermines the margin of plausible deniability that currently stands as gods sole defense against modern science. furthermore, exceptions and excuses are endlessly provided as to why god should not be tested, ergo the confusion when it is consistently presented as a fact in spite of its adamantly untestable nature. since it cant be tested, it cant be proven impossible...or possible. which means it is inadmissible in most courts of scientific inquiry. hence why you are HERE arguing about it, and not writing eloquent dissertations to the board of scientific american.

According to the laws of science you are correct........ 100% BUT I see an error with science........ science can not analyze or test "spirit".

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Ask a Rabbi if the Torah is a history of the Jews and a book of Jewish law OR what you are trying to push.

It would be interesting as to their response.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

According to the laws of science you are correct........ 100% BUT I see an error with science........ science can not analyze or test "spirit".

you must first provide evidence that "spirit" exists. can you put it under a microscope, or explore its properties via the scientific method? unless you can, all you will have is conjecture regarding the nature, purpose, function, and fate of such a thing as "spirit". you have no data, no facts, and no experiments that can be repeated and verified by independent agencies. all you have is a hypothesis, not even a theory.

publish or perish, as they say. it looks like you might be on the perishing side of things.