Jesus Crucified the Day before Passover 37 AD

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
the Passover of the JEWS, not the true Passover.

Back in Egypt Passover happened as the annual flooding started. Summer. Using a calendar like the Gregorian one piggybacking the seasons is not really a very good way to measure time, since it relies on a local precession thingy and the All Agreed and Sorted Axis Mundi, and not to our planet's whereabouts in the solar system.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: UB2120

The Urantia is a modern construction, and not a very good one. As far as I remember it goes into detail about "the lost years" of Jesus (typically between age 12 and 30), "revealing" among other things young Jesus' supposed dislike for Greek sports. It's a red herring. Or, rather, a red whale.

It is a modern construction and a very good one at that. It actually goes into detail about his entire life from birth to death. It is not for everyone though and many are not ready for its advanced teachings.

Actually what it says when young Jesus was traveling with his father in one of the nearby Greek cities was that he very much enjoyed Greek sports. He even suggested to his father that they work to implement competitive sports back home. His father did not approve and it was one of the few times his father ever showed anger. He respected his father's wishes and did not speak of it again. (www.urantia.org...-jump-result-0)

a reply to: UB2120

Yes, utter bollocks, it's all make-believe, for there are no records to this day of Jesus between his Jerusalem bar-mitzvah and when he started his ministry a few years before his crucifixion. There just aren't any records. Nothing to support the Urantia. Probably since he was raising his family during those years, and educating himself to become a rabbi and his artisanship. When all the chickens were out of the nest, Jesus took on his ministry, lecturing in synagogues and forums, and generally pissing off the establishment.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: UB2120

Yes, utter bollocks, it's all make-believe, for there are no records to this day of Jesus between his Jerusalem bar-mitzvah and when he started his ministry a few years before his crucifixion. There just aren't any records. Nothing to support the Urantia. Probably since he was raising his family during those years, and educating himself to become a rabbi and his artisanship. When all the chickens were out of the nest, Jesus took on his ministry, lecturing in synagogues and forums, and generally pissing off the establishment.

That is an issue in general when discussing Jesus, there are no records of him outside the Bible. The revelation of his entire life in the Urantia Book was a gift to mankind from our celestial friends. They were eye witnesses to his matchless life. Jesus, being a high Son of God, went to great lengths to make sure nothing was left behind. No images, no handwriting, no children all of which were part of his incarnation mandate. Humans tend to get into relic worship and the object usually ends up more important than what made it holy.

The portrayal of his entire life and complete teachings shows the high potential of the mortal races. Aside from the creative attributes that were a part of his pre-existent person, mortals can attain the level of self development that Jesus attained. That is why he used the name Son of Man and Son of God. His life was a revelation of God to man, but was also a portrayal of man to God.

The Jews envisaged a deliverer who would come in miraculous power to cast down Israel’s enemies and establish the Jews as world rulers, free from want and oppression. Jesus knew that this hope would never be realized. He knew that the kingdom of heaven had to do with the overthrow of evil in the hearts of men, and that it was purely a matter of spiritual concern. He thought out the advisability of inaugurating the spiritual kingdom with a brilliant and dazzling display of power but he fully decided against such a plan. He would not compromise. He had won the world in potential by submission to the Father’s will, and he proposed to finish his work as he had begun it, and as the Son of Man.

You can hardly imagine what would have happened had this God-man, now in potential possession of all power in heaven and on earth, once decided to unfurl the banner of sovereignty, to marshal his wonder-working battalions in militant array! But he would not compromise. He would not serve evil that the worship of God might presumably be derived therefrom. He would abide by the Father’s will. He would proclaim to an onlooking universe, “You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.”

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

then you have become your own god and no one can correct your view.

but they were strictly instructed to observe it correctly. Your view has them observing it incorrectly.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The synoptic gospels apparently refers to the passover preparations as if it was an integral part of the festival of unleavened bread. If we read what Exodus has to say about these days, we se that Passover really starts a few days before 15th Nisan, namely on the tenth with the setting apart the Passover lamb and preparing the passover sacrifice (brackets with dates are mine):

Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month [10th Nisan] every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household. [ESV] Exodus 12:3

and further

You may take it from the sheep or from the goats, and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month [14th Nisan], when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight. [ESV] Exodus 12:5-6

The Passover lamb is selected the tenth and sacrificed at twilight on on the fourteenth:

On the first day [15th Nisan] you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day [21st Nisan] a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. [ESV] Exodus 12:16

Like I said, the synoptic gospels seem to refer to this whole thing as the Festival of Unleavened Bread, and that makes no sense.

ETA: Then you have the phenomena of «the fourteenth day». In some cultures they counted the month from new moon to new moon, and counting two weeks plus «the fourteenth day» and then two weeks adding up to a total of 29 days. There were different ways to name these days, some counted among the other days, while others simply jumped over it as if it didn't exist. In Babylon this was the deal at least for a while. Similar ways were used to count the 29 years it takes planet Saturn to orbit the Sun, where it is called four-sevens-and-one.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month [10th Nisan] every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household. [ESV] Exodus 12:3

and further

You may take it from the sheep or from the goats, and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month [14th Nisan], when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight. [ESV] Exodus 12:5-6

And the Catholic heresy with all her offspring and with foundation in Saul Paulus' doctrinal sacrileges-- have made it such, that the Passover Lamb, that is the annual ritual killing of a year old animal-- is to be understood as Jesus. And what's more, they have established by all rules of dogma and lawmaking, that sacrificing him was properly performed and that all Christians are «saved» and gain automatic absolution and access to the kingdom of heaven when admitting to said heresies in the most dreadful, however casual, manners, including worshipping art depicting the Lord in this most pitiful tortured scaffolded state of despair and agony; and just as casually they adhere to ritual sacraments where they, still to this day, gnaw on his holy flesh and make sure to get a few drops from his last squeeze of crystal crimson. How can they avoid understanding the hints those old prophets were delivering?

Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. [ESV] Matthew 24:28

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: UB2120

The Urantia is a modern construction, and not a very good one. As far as I remember it goes into detail about "the lost years" of Jesus (typically between age 12 and 30), "revealing" among other things young Jesus' supposed dislike for Greek sports. It's a red herring. Or, rather, a red whale.

Learned that from what? Wikipedia "pluck, pick and choose"; the Urantia book is 2097 pages in length and I KNOW you have not read a word of its modern construction. As far as 'not being a very good one'; in comparison to WHAT OTHER MODERN constructions, Scientology?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I think it's time for your biscuit now. And no booze before breakfast, I thought we agreed on that.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing

I think it's time for your biscuit now. And no booze before breakfast, I thought we agreed on that.

You did not address/answer my question; what 'modern construction' other than the "Urantia Book" exists that is a better one, L. Ron Hubbard's (a science fiction writer) invention; completely fabricated, made up: 'The Church of Scientology'. You are so far out of your depth of knowledge here as to be comical. Try a quick 'cliff notes' study of the book, (not possible).

Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day) [...] [ESV] John 19:31

I think the words translated "high day" above is a remnant left from the original Aramaic text underlying the Greek translations we have today, something that left the translators with an explanatory phrase or a comma, probably reflecting a Hebrew idiom or a saying, word-play or rhymes; Hebrew is literally full of it and the OT and Torah in particular. The Greek word for High here is μέγας or "Megas", which really means Great rather than High (as in megabit and megaton). In the Greek LXX OT "Megas" or Gr. μέγας is normally used instead of Heb. גדול or "Gadol" as in "Gadol Kohen" or 'High Priest', so as far as I can see "High/Great Day" could translate into "Yom Gadol" or something, but it doesn't quite make sensible sense, and it's not elegant enough if you catch my drift. But perhaps Heb. יום רום or "Yom Rom", now that's a possible winner, a clear rhyme that could mean both "Day of Rome" and "High Day". Awrr the RUM!

AND since it was a Thursday in this case, there is a link to Zeus or Jupiter, king of the Graeco-Roman gods and thereby the Devil himself, and if that's not enough, the same word that gave name to the Sabbath has also given name to another planet, "Shabbetay" or Saturn (as in the resting or slow-moving planet), it's too much to start at, but basically every 1000 years there is a particular conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn called the Greatest Conjunction. And it happened the day Jesus was born sometimes between Adar and Nisan, 6BC. Sabbath on a Thursday, a hint of this aforementioned Jupiter-Saturn conjunction? I think so. I even think it's rather obvious.

In Leviticus 23:3 where the Sabbath is defined, the text says השביעי שבת שבתון or "Ha-Shabiai Shabath Shabatun" which obviously is a prime example of Hebrew alliteration, and which translate into: 'The Seventh' + 'Sabbath' + 'of Rest'. I am not saying this is the original Hebrew/Aramaic text which is left half translated in John 19, but I suspect something that is a direct reference to the Torah relating to the Sabbath that would need an explanatory phrase to include further semantics in the Aramaic wording when translating into Greek. If anyone has a better example, of a phrase in Hebrew that would translate into 'Great Day', please post it.

For an explanation of how the first and last days of Passover being Sabbaths regardless of day of the week ==> Compare:

“Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the LORD in all your dwelling places. [ESV] Leviticus 23:3

On the first day [15th Nisan first day of Passover] you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day [21st Nisan] a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. [ESV] Exodus 12:16

The underlined phrases here are all translations of Heb. מקרא־קדש or "Miqra-Kodesh" -- 'a holy assembly'. So beyond any doubt, the Sabbath in question, the day after the crucifixion on 'Preparation Day'-- was the first day of Passover, in this case a Thursday.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

DURING the afternoon of this Thursday, when Philip reminded the Master about the approaching Passover and inquired concerning his plans for its celebration, he had in mind the Passover supper which was due to be eaten on the evening of the next day, Friday. It was the custom to begin the preparations for the celebration of the Passover not later than noon of the preceding day. And since the Jews reckoned the day as beginning at sunset, this meant that Saturday’s Passover supper would be eaten on Friday night, sometime before the midnight hour.

The apostles were, therefore, entirely at a loss to understand the Master’s announcement that they would celebrate the Passover one day early. They thought, at least some of them did, that he knew he would be placed under arrest before the time of the Passover supper on Friday night and was therefore calling them together for a special supper on this Thursday evening. Others thought that this was merely a special occasion which was to precede the regular Passover celebration.

The apostles knew that Jesus had celebrated other Passovers without the lamb; they knew that he did not personally participate in any sacrificial service of the Jewish system. He had many times partaken of the paschal lamb as a guest, but always, when he was the host, no lamb was served. It would not have been a great surprise to the apostles to have seen the lamb omitted even on Passover night, and since this supper was given one day earlier, they thought nothing of its absence.

After receiving the greetings of welcome extended by the father and mother of John Mark, the apostles went immediately to the upper chamber while Jesus lingered behind to talk with the Mark family.

It had been understood beforehand that the Master was to celebrate this occasion alone with his twelve apostles; therefore no servants were provided to wait upon them.

Excerpt from Paper 179 - The Last Supper - from the Urantia Book. (www.urantia.org...)

a reply to: UB2120
Applause! thank you UB2120; "The Urantia Foundation"; 533 Diversey Parkway, Chicago; Illinois 60614 USA (exists) its all on you others to see what this is all about. This singular text would/should replace the Bible. It is beautifully written by the Melchizedeks, Mighty Messenger, Solitary Messenger, Life Carrier, Chief of Seraphim, Midwayer Commission, Perfector of Wisdom, Divine Counselor and others. If you want to know what really happened with the development of the human race and how religion reared its ugly head? this is a good read (no holds barred as to the truth).

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What is Nisan and why do you mention the 'Year of Adam?' I don't see any hard evidence, such as a reference from your research to indicate why you believe Jesus was crucified less than a decade of what other people think.

You know how we have Greek books of the canonized bible? And how all gospels, such as the gospel of your Judas, and scripture narrative omitted from the canonized bible but was Christian doctrine before Constantine are Greek? Every word that we have for our religion is Greek, it is a Gentile teaching, yet everybody admits Jesus was a Jew. Yet the OT was Hebrew. I know why this is the case, it is a very deep agenda of world power that the Romans had in the time of Jesus.

Let me tell you how for the most it was possible for us to learn the truth: The Dead Sea Scrolls. Are you familiar, of the legend that the first Christians fled the holy city during the Roman destruction of the Temple, because of the foreknowledge prophesies by Jesus?

Unraveled, this is about the last priests of Jerusalem
who shall get wealth and booty from plundering the peoples.
But in the last days, their wealth and their plunder their wealth and their plunder shall be given into the hand(s)
of the army of the Kittim.* For they shall be "the remnant of the peoples."
-- Dead Sea Scrolls, Habakkuk Midrash (1QpHab) 9.3-7

There were only two of the ancient Jewish sects that had priests, one was the Sadducees and the other was the Essenes. The Essene priests had a council of 12, the Sadducee priests had the Sanhedrin which was a council of 71. So the correct writer of the NT, the Jews, had a deep clash down the middle of their system. Much is written about it. But in the scroll above, they mention how the Sadducee priests plundered their own people, which can be cross referenced. And they mention that even their plundered wealth will be given to the Romans. And that the Essenes would be the last remnant of holy ones on earth. Which is correct still 2,000 years later.

But your gospel, which is Greek, is a mastermind, manipulative, story of incorporating paganism into the story of the Jewish revolt, from the side of the Romans. The part about Judas, the same as the gospel of Judas, is the real heresy. His own name Iscariot just means the historical Judas, who led the revolt, was a Sicarii Essene. Nobody will be able to initially discover the truth because as I said, it is the work of masterminds.

originally posted by: greyer
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What is Nisan and why do you mention the 'Year of Adam?'

Nisan is the name of one of the spring months, the month of 'Passover' and the 'Feast of unleavened bread'. Hebrew/Jewish calendar starts with the 'Year of Adam', and the year 37 AD translates into the Year of Adam 3797. Year 2000 was 5761.

I believe the Hebrew term behind the word or term "High Day" in John 19:31 may have been 'Yom Tov', as in "certainly a Yom Tov" or lit. "a Good Day". Tov or Towb means Good, which is the word behind Good in the story about the fruit of knowledge.

I don't see any hard evidence, such as a reference from your research to indicate why you believe Jesus was crucified less than a decade of what other people think.

So have you looked into Hebrew calendars understood that Passover as described in the Gospel could not have happened unless it happened like it did in 37 AD?

As for the rest of your reply, it is that kind of ad hominem BS that has reminded me lately that there is no more point in discussing here at ATS. I don't have a gospel, I don't belong to any church or religion, I do know my bible however, and that book tells me God is an idea and a word, a spark of knowledge and insight. The Lamb of God's last stand is upon the Rock of Science. «His name is Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.»

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
So have you looked into Hebrew calendars understood that Passover as described in the Gospel could not have happened unless it happened like it did in 37 AD?

I am going to study this next.

From what I know, the Essenes had a lunar calendar and Jesus changed it into a solar calendar.

This is extremely important, because you had a split inside of the Essenes sect with John the Baptizer and Jesus breaking off into a new covenant. So there was a lot of disagreement inside of Judah during this time.

As for the rest of your reply, it is that kind of ad hominem BS that has reminded me lately that there is no more point in discussing here at ATS. I don't have a gospel, I don't belong to any church or religion, I do know my bible however, and that book tells me God is an idea and a word, a spark of knowledge and insight. The Lamb of God's last stand is upon the Rock of Science. «His name is Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war.»

That sounds like the truth to me. But scholars like Robert Eisman make so clear the war part. This is strange, because righteousness is all about peace as is written accordingly, but at the same time these men were supposedly leading a revolution.

what hard evidence exists Jesus existed? I don't think I have ever seen anyone put any such evidence forward.

a reply to: AthlonSavage

A few actually ==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

And the Gospel of John is said to be the eyewitness accounts of either the wife of Jesus (Mary Magdalen) or "the disciple Jesus loved" (which may allude to Lazarus, Mary's brother). Possibly recorded by a scribe named John. Then again, like all the other books of the NT there are plenty of versions that differ ever so slightly, but by moving a comma or a period, you could turn the whole book upside down. The pronoun at the turn of the 13th chapter of Revelation is a classic. And how it ended with the Catholic Vulgate being first printed in new Latin versions, and later even printed in English to counter the protestant Textus Receptus both the Geneva and the KJV were more or less sole translations from. There were other things too of course, but my point remains. The slightest change in some asteroid's trajectory could change everything down here. A slight bump the other direction and we might'd rid ourselves of the threat altogether. Just passing by....