In Defense of Chemtrail Conspiracy Theorists

Typical of what chemtrail threads everywhere allmost always degenerate into.

a reply to: DelMarvel

And the common thread in chemtrail threads is, of course, chemtrail believers.

originally posted by: rebelv

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: rebelv

Geo-engineering, also known as cloud seeding, isn't the same as "chemtrails". Maybe you should look up the difference.

hu,

That's exactly what their doing with chem-trails. They're
making clouds artificially.

At least from my observations, that's what always happens
when the chem-trails start crisscrossing all over the sky.

lol

Rebel 5

Cloud seeding uses EXISTING clouds. It doesn't create clouds. Didn't I tell you to look up what the difference between cloud seeding and contralis was?

As it has been asked many times before, but here we go again...

Why has not one pro chemtrail pusher in the world gotten the funds together to actually test a so called chemtrail while it was in the air?

Can anyone on this site who believes they exist answer that one simple question?

And please OP explain why that hasn't happened since you are so dead set to try and prove they are real?

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: mrthumpy

Now, is there any way barium in that form can end up in the blood?

I didn't catch this part when I first read the post. That is a damn good question so I suspect it might be ignored.

I think that other part of my post is probably more signigicant

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I've actually asked this question several times in this thread. No one wants to answer it.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
As it has been asked many times before, but here we go again...

Why has not one pro chemtrail pusher in the world gotten the funds together to actually test a so called chemtrail while it was in the air?

Can anyone on this site who believes they exist answer that one simple question?

And please OP explain why that hasn't happened since you are so dead set to try and prove they are real?

Perhaps they share the fear of flying. If that is the case the could use one of these to test the soil.

Soil Tester

a reply to: anton74

Testing the soil would only prove that the soil, was, or was not contaminated. The source of contamination would still be the big question. Ground based sources are plentiful, while looking to the sky for the source seems counterproductive.(IMHO)

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: anton74

Testing the soil would only prove that the soil, was, or was not contaminated. The source of contamination would still be the big question. Ground based sources are plentiful, while looking to the sky for the source seems counterproductive.(IMHO)

True, but it gives them something too cling to and sounds sciency. I wonder how many believers on ATS really care about the truth and how many just want to be right. There seems to be a rather fanatical resistance to the possibility of the contamination from other sources.

a reply to: mrthumpy

Not disagreeing but could you explain a little about why it's more significant. For example, I don't know how such small particles would be noticeable in the environment.

I don't have any reason to believe the proposed particles even exist yet but even if they do and are somehow 'secretly' being deployed, why would the barium show up in blood tests? Why would some tests show 'high' aluminum and no 'high' barium while others show 'high' barium and not 'high' aluminum? Putting aside the mistaken notion that the tests actually show 'high' barium levels, it appears to me the results are incompatible with the claim those results are indicative of Keith's proposed particles being deployed.

It's been pointed out numerous times that in reality there are many "donkeys" this particular tail of 'chemicals' may belong to, yet someone persists in trying to pin it on a "unicorn".

I'll be damned before I sit idly by while some psychology experiment labels those who point out the facts as "dishonest".

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

It's the 'precisely engineered' part that would be the dead givaway

In a nutshell, David’s idea is to engineer discs around 10 micrometers across and 50 nanometers thick, with a core of aluminum, a top layer of aluminum oxide, and a bottom layer of barium titanate.

If someone was wanting to prove that barium in in the environment was from geoengineering projects then all they would have to do is look for those particles

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I've actually asked this question several times in this thread. No one wants to answer it.

I have asked that question in numerous threads with no answer...so I guess they can't answer such a tough question.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

I'll be damned before I sit idly by while some psychology experiment labels those who point out the facts as "dishonest".

When the conversation devolves into how things were said, instead of WHAT was said, there is little hope for good debate.
Likewise, when drive by cheerleaders lack the testicular fortitude to discuss things, the same is true.

originally posted by: waynos

originally posted by: rebelv

....what I perceived to be a
condescending and patronizing reply, so rather than get into an
argument, I decided to try and be funny...

You're right. It was. I'm sorry. You copped for disdain that someone else had stirred and that was unfair.

I do believe that someone is spraying chemicals into the air.

I got replies that Geo-engineering is different from chem trails.

I got replies that cloud seeding is different than chem trails.

But, that's what these planes are doing, they're making clouds,
artificially.

Geoengineering (viva aerial methods) is a genuine proposal but still at the study stage. Scientific reports and studies admit they don't know enough about potential consequences to consider implementing it.

Cloud seeding is an established activity, it induces rain or snow from existing cumulous type clouds, it doesn't create clouds because the type of clouds created by aircraft, as contrails, are the cirrus type, which aren't the sort of clouds that produce rain or snow. This means you can't create a cloud then make it rain. This is why its not cloud seeding.

Chemtrails are just what people call contrails when they either don't understand the phenomenon, or have been lied to by scammers. Harsh as that sounds, it's a true fact.

I'm not a scientist but I did watch Dr. George Fishback back in the
day, and I do know that in order for clouds to form they must form
around particulates in the air. Those particulates could be natural
dust, etc. It could be pollution, or... it could be chemicals being
sprayed into the air, at an altitude in which there is sufficient humidity
and temperature.

Which is all absolutely correct, though whether chemicals ARE being deliberately sprayed into the air is a particular bone of contention for several reasons. Some chemicals certainly come out of jet exhaust without anyone making any effort at all.

The contrail type cloud that an aircraft might create (not just jets at all) is caused by the nucleation of ice around the particulate matter (from the jet exhaust as well as ambient particles). They are formed at higher altitudes where the temperatures are always around minus thirty to minus fifty degrees. They persist and/or spread into cloud cover when local relative humidity, as you said, is high enough.

At lower altitudes in warmer air, jet exhaust never produces contrail clouds because water droplets don't form and suspend in the air like rainclouds. The only type of clouds you will see are aerodynamic ones where the moisture condenses out of the air momentarily due to pressure differentials over the wings or at the tips. I've photographed this at ground level (even nice spirals off the props of a Q400) and it always disappears immediately. So it's not just that aircraft produce clouds. It's the cloud type that important to consider.

And then on the other hand, chemical particulates need not even
form natural clouds at all, the clouds can be comprised entirely of
chemicals.

Yes, that's right and I believe that if Chemtrailing really occurred this is what they would be. Because (a) a secret spraying operation that everyone on earth can see is just plain stupid, (b) anything sprayed from an aircraft over a long distance at altitude would be impossible to see from the ground.

The water ice in the contrsils we do see comes from the water in the air already and the water created by the combustion of fuel. It's not carried by the plane, there's far too much of it for that.

I hope this is a more coherent reply to illustrate my viewpoint.

Thanks so much for the time you took for your reply. I gave you a star.

I took in all you said, and I agree, however, I am still skeptical as to what
my own eyes see, what appears to be relatively low flying aircraft,
creating a relatively low cloud ceiling, of (like you said) cirrus type clouds.

I have never seen a high altitude jet aircraft produce anything more
than something like a comet tail that remains the same length behind
the plane.

So, I will be doing more research.

Thanks again for you reply, is quite informative.

Rebel 5

originally posted by: rebelv

originally posted by: waynos

originally posted by: rebelv

....what I perceived to be a
condescending and patronizing reply, so rather than get into an
argument, I decided to try and be funny...

You're right. It was. I'm sorry. You copped for disdain that someone else had stirred and that was unfair.

I do believe that someone is spraying chemicals into the air.

I got replies that Geo-engineering is different from chem trails.

I got replies that cloud seeding is different than chem trails.

But, that's what these planes are doing, they're making clouds,
artificially.

Geoengineering (viva aerial methods) is a genuine proposal but still at the study stage. Scientific reports and studies admit they don't know enough about potential consequences to consider implementing it.

Cloud seeding is an established activity, it induces rain or snow from existing cumulous type clouds, it doesn't create clouds because the type of clouds created by aircraft, as contrails, are the cirrus type, which aren't the sort of clouds that produce rain or snow. This means you can't create a cloud then make it rain. This is why its not cloud seeding.

Chemtrails are just what people call contrails when they either don't understand the phenomenon, or have been lied to by scammers. Harsh as that sounds, it's a true fact.

I'm not a scientist but I did watch Dr. George Fishback back in the
day, and I do know that in order for clouds to form they must form
around particulates in the air. Those particulates could be natural
dust, etc. It could be pollution, or... it could be chemicals being
sprayed into the air, at an altitude in which there is sufficient humidity
and temperature.

Which is all absolutely correct, though whether chemicals ARE being deliberately sprayed into the air is a particular bone of contention for several reasons. Some chemicals certainly come out of jet exhaust without anyone making any effort at all.

The contrail type cloud that an aircraft might create (not just jets at all) is caused by the nucleation of ice around the particulate matter (from the jet exhaust as well as ambient particles). They are formed at higher altitudes where the temperatures are always around minus thirty to minus fifty degrees. They persist and/or spread into cloud cover when local relative humidity, as you said, is high enough.

At lower altitudes in warmer air, jet exhaust never produces contrail clouds because water droplets don't form and suspend in the air like rainclouds. The only type of clouds you will see are aerodynamic ones where the moisture condenses out of the air momentarily due to pressure differentials over the wings or at the tips. I've photographed this at ground level (even nice spirals off the props of a Q400) and it always disappears immediately. So it's not just that aircraft produce clouds. It's the cloud type that important to consider.

And then on the other hand, chemical particulates need not even
form natural clouds at all, the clouds can be comprised entirely of
chemicals.

Yes, that's right and I believe that if Chemtrailing really occurred this is what they would be. Because (a) a secret spraying operation that everyone on earth can see is just plain stupid, (b) anything sprayed from an aircraft over a long distance at altitude would be impossible to see from the ground.

The water ice in the contrsils we do see comes from the water in the air already and the water created by the combustion of fuel. It's not carried by the plane, there's far too much of it for that.

I hope this is a more coherent reply to illustrate my viewpoint.

Thanks so much for the time you took for your reply. I gave you a star.

I took in all you said, and I agree, however, I am still skeptical as to what
my own eyes see, what appears to be relatively low flying aircraft,
creating a relatively low cloud ceiling, of, like you said, cirrus type clouds.

I have never seen a high altitude jet aircraft produce anything more
than something like a comet tail that remains the same length behind
the plane.

So, I will be doing more research.

Thanks again for you reply, is quite informative.

Rebel 5

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I've actually asked this question several times in this thread. No one wants to answer it.

I have asked that question in numerous threads with no answer...so I guess they can't answer such a tough question.

I'll answer your question on behalf of everyone you've ever asked:
We don't have the time, means, or ability to try & find a way to go up in the sky & test a potential chemtrail every time we happen to see one.


Which is all the time by the way; maybe the weather in your respective areas prevent you from witnessing it as often as some of us.

& yes, I'm quite aware that the weather could simply be making "contrails" visible longer than normal.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: rebelv

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: rebelv

Geo-engineering, also known as cloud seeding, isn't the same as "chemtrails". Maybe you should look up the difference.

hu,

That's exactly what their doing with chem-trails. They're
making clouds artificially.

At least from my observations, that's what always happens
when the chem-trails start crisscrossing all over the sky.

lol

Rebel 5

Cloud seeding uses EXISTING clouds. It doesn't create clouds. Didn't I tell you to look up what the difference between cloud seeding and contralis was?

Lol, I never claimed it was cloud seeding, and I'm quite
familiar with cloud seeding, I've watched many documentaries
about it.

I did claim it was geo-engineering because protesters
here in my local area come every so often and they
claimed that chem-trails were geo-engineering in
practice.

No, IMO, these clouds never produce rain, as far as
I've observed, and if there is an intent, then it seems
the intent is only to produce cloud cover to cool the
temperature.

I've never claimed that these "chem-trails" were for
some other more nefarious purpose except to reflect
sunlight or block it, so I'm using the word "chem-trail"
but please don't confuse me with all of the conspiracies
surrounding the word, I am skeptical that this is a natural
phenomenon that's all.

Thanks so much for your reply.

Rebel 5




Rebel 5

a reply to: rebelv

But that doesn't make sense either since the contrails are so thin. How much sunlight are they going to reflect exactly? A standard stratus cloud reflects more heat than a contrail and doesn't produce rain either. Sounds like it would make more sense to make a big fluffy cloud to reflect sunlight not a thin strip of cloud that barely covers the sky.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

I'll answer your question on behalf of everyone you've ever asked:
We don't have the time, means, or ability to try & find a way to go up in the sky & test a potential chemtrail every time we happen to see one.

But what if there is a way? You're not alone, believers are everywhere. Join together to expose the 'truth'.

Which is all the time by the way; maybe the weather in your respective areas prevent you from witnessing it as often as some of us.

Well that should make it easy then. If the donate buttons out there already won't do what needs to be done to fight this evil then someone can make their own.

To paraphrase my favorite ATSer, Crowdfunding FTW!!!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The thin strip slowly elongates outward, creating large hazy veil.


@ Obfuscation

I LoLd personally, I don't feel the need to test chemtrails or prove to others they're actually there. I know what I see & I choose to believe what I want. Our world is going to hell in a handbasket; exposing chemtrails as real isn't a high priority of mine nor would it affect the waking nightmare we currently live in.